MICHAEL KEATON RETURNS (or at least in discussion) AS BATMAN

[JKKS085]

I still don’t think we’ve gotten a definitive cowl yet for the dark knight. Which is your favorite?

Super long response with a lot of unnecessary details.

Burton
Batman 89: Super fan of the design. It’s big, clunky, perfectly impractical. Amazing. I love the rough casting of the foam latex that gives it a lot of character and the attempt to blend the bottom of the cowl with the texture of cape. The sculpt is asymmetrical, unpolished. It’s the Vader ANH of Batman cowls. A testament to the artists who had to make due and chart new ways forward. And it’s huge, like insanely big in person.
Batman Returns: It’s a refined version of the previous design brought to life with sharper, more polished technique. Less interesting to my eye (I’m partial to the handmade feel of the 89 cowl) but an excellent design overall that works perfectly with the rest of the redesigned suit and the cleaner aesthetics of the film.
The Flash: Good modern day translation of the classic design. A few unnecessary details here and there but nice work on the texture. Neither really memorable nor particularly jarring.

Schumacher
Forever: Still within the framework of the Batman 89 and Returns design but shinier. Not a fan of the wider eye cutouts but props to the design team for creating a cowl that works perfectly with Kilmer’s features, that is less bulky and more form-fitting. The true departure is with the sonar cowl with which they attempted something different in terms of color, texture, shine and detailing that unfortunately doesn’t translate all that well in the movie but is quite visible in person. It’s over designed of course but surely not the worst design choice in this movie.
Batman & Robin: The first cowl is a retread of the Kilmer design that doesn’t work with Clooney’s face/acting choices. The second cowl is a ridiculous repaint of the sonar cowl design from Forever that frankly looks like ****.

Nolan
Batman Begins: Whatever you think of the design of the Nolan films one thing that was made clear from the beginning is that behind every choice there is purpose and a willingness to visually communicate the underlying story. I personally love the Begins cowl with its softer, more subtle features coupled with the huge neck and mat texture broken up by the darker velvet-like cape. I think it’s a brilliant design that worked perfectly within the context of the film.
TDK/TDKR: This is where it gets tricky, I understand the reason for the change but I would dispute the execution. The TDK/TDKR cowl retains the main features of the Begins cowl within a 2-piece design that improves mobility giving the director and actor more options but I can’t get past the bobblehead/motorcycle helmet look and the way it affects the silhouette of the character in these movies.

Affleck
BvS: I really don’t like it. From the small ears to the excessive texturing, to the exaggerated features and wrinkles all the way through the bulkiness and the way it works with the suit giving the illusion that Affleck doesn’t have a neck, I find it to be a very weak design proposition with nothing much to say beyond perceived comic accuracy. In my opinion it makes all the wrong choices. However huge props to the wizards at Ironhead who managed to make a one piece cowl with neck mobility which to this day remains a mind blowing engineering prowess to me.
Justice League: Same criticism as the cowl above but somehow a worst take. Slightly more pleased with the overall design of the cowl for the armored suit (and I didn’t hate the idea of googles).
The Flash: Obviously someone got out of bed one morning saw the second Batman & Robin cowl and said, "I'm going to make the worst Batman cowl of all time." I’m not entirely sure what went wrong yet but it looked so, so bad.

Pattinson
The Batman: Best of the bunch. An intimidating, yet subtle design that allowed the actor to convey a range of emotions I have never seen before in a live action Batman. Excellent engineering to allow mobility within a tight form factor, tremendous work on textures, detailing, painting and weathering throughout the film. Works perfectly with the rest of the suit and overall design of the film, creates a great silhouette. A tour de force.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[Dark Raven]

I thought Bruce Wayne would have Keaton's actual hairline not a full head of hair. Why didn't they just make him as he is in real life? No-one would've minded.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I thought Bruce Wayne would have Keaton's actual hairline not a full head of hair. Why didn't they just make him as he is in real life? No-one would've minded.

I think they were trying to roll back the age (since he's technically playing 10 years younger because it's supposed to be 2013), but also I think they didn't want his Batman to, canonically, be bald.

 

[J.Drangal]

I thought Bruce Wayne would have Keaton's actual hairline not a full head of hair. Why didn't they just make him as he is in real life? No-one would've minded.

I think they were trying to roll back the age (since he's technically playing 10 years younger because it's supposed to be 2013), but also I think they didn't want his Batman to, canonically, be bald.

I think that haircut was also an effective visual cue that helps bring Keaton closer to an older version of his Bruce Wayne rather than... well... simply an older Keaton.

While it's true that in real life, people can change their style, I've always felt that, in a visual medium like film, changes need to be made with some caution.
For example, Ian Malcolm has always been my favorite character in the Jurassic-Park franchise. But as silly as it sounds, when I was a kid, even though Jeff Goldblum was still clearly playing the same character, I was also still a bit puzzled by his new look for The Lost World. I mean, it worked and I understand that the studio probably thought a makeover was necessary to take him from "rock star mathematician" to a more "classic Hollywood adventure movie hero", but... yeah.

Anyway, I'm glad they worked to give Keaton some visual continuity here, other than just him reprising the role.
This movie was what it was, and you could really tell that the script could have had any past incarnation of Batman fit the bill. Yet I still found many little moments where things just clicked for me, and where I really felt like that Batman, and Bruce Wayne, were back.

 

[Dark Raven]

If Adam West were still alive and well, what are the chances we would've gotten him in this movie? It would've been great if he actually helped in the final battle. I don't know how he would've been brought in, but since they had two Flashes in the same place, why not two Batmen?

 

[super85]

If Adam West were still alive and well, wphat are the chances we would've gotten him in this movie? It would've been great if he actually helped in the final battle. I don't know how he would've been brought in, but since they had two Flashes in the same place, why not two Batmen?

I think West was the type of guy that he would have liked to reprise the part. But that is only a hunch of course from my part.

I mentioned it earlier, Since their entire rules were so loose, they could have easily used their cameos differently, like for example when they keep changing the timeline , then the two flashes suddently are working together with different versions of Batman and Superman/Supergirl instead of the ones in the main cast...

It is so odd, that a film that took forever to make, feels so rushed, especially since director keeps talking about how the cameos were a big part from the beginning....

 

[Dark Raven]

I think West was the type of guy that he would have liked to reprise the part. But that is only a hunch of course from my part.

I mentioned it earlier, Since their entire rules were so loose, they could have easily used their cameos differently, like for example when they keep changing the timeline , then the two flashes suddently are working together with different versions of Batman and Superman/Supergirl instead of the ones in the main cast...

It is so odd, that a film that took forever to make, feels so rushed, especially since director keeps talking about how the cameos were a big part from the beginning....

It would've been cool if Keaton blipped out for a few seconds and the Flash was working with Kilmer or Clooney and then Keaton returned. Didn't they have something like that in the Justice League cartoon where Green Lantern went from John Stewart to Hal Jordan in one scene and then back again? Kilmer could've had his voice dubbed for those few seconds either with a voice actor or using a line from either his own Batman film or even from another Kilmer movie or an interview.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Didn't they have something like that in the Justice League cartoon where Green Lantern went from John Stewart to Hal Jordan in one scene and then back again?

They did, it was in "The Once and Future Thing, Part Two: Time, Warped", the JLU season one finale (I'd like to claim an encyclopedic knowledge of the DCAU - but truth is I rewatched that season just a couple of weeks ago!).

 

[super85]

It would've been cool if Keaton blipped out for a few seconds and the Flash was working with Kilmer or Clooney and then Keaton returned. Didn't they have something like that in the Justice League cartoon where Green Lantern went from John Stewart to Hal Jordan in one scene and then back again? Kilmer could've had his voice dubbed for those few seconds either with a voice actor or using a line from either his own Batman film or even from another Kilmer movie or an interview.

Yes,I was thinking of exactly something like that, or it "blips" to Adam West Batman and Helen Slater Supergirl.. that would have given those CGI cameos some sort stakes or at least given a cool visual, instead of the polar express/PS3 vomit they decided to do.

 

[chintai80]

Yes,I was thinking of exactly something like that, or it "blips" to Adam West Batman and Helen Slater Supergirl.. that would have given those CGI cameos some sort stakes or at least given a cool visual, instead of the polar express/PS3 vomit they decided to do.

that would've been awesome instead of what we actually got.

but seeing keaton as batman again was the best thing about The Flash.
just made me wish we got a third burton sequel and a batman beyond movie.

i want to know what this batman's been up too!
like why did he seem to know so much about time travel? besides being a genius and studying the subject...
was he involved in cases dealing with temporal anomalies?
the fans want to know!

 

[BobJM]

Keaton returning in The Flash, always seemed ill-advised. Especially since his universe didn't really feel at all like the Burton films, and was a strange amalgamation of Man of Steel. Really should have been Thomas Wayne with Jeffrey Dean Morgan in the suit. I think his inclusion would have been a much cooler way to warp the DCEU and act as a swan song.

In hindsight, the second WB heard Keaton was interested, they should have dropped Batgirl and Flash in favor of Batman Beyond. WB can line its pockets with every variation of Batman under the sun while it proceeds forward a reconstructed DCU (with Batman appearing in supporting roles).