Mr. Freeze in Reeves' Batuniverse

[Chris Reeves]

It seems like a lot of people around here are totally on board, but I'm still on the fence about it. I'm not saying it couldn't work, it's just that Mr. Freeze is hard for me to imagine as a character/villain in Reeves' universe without seeming cheesy, given the tone, story, vibe, etc. we already seem to be getting with The Batman. Anything is possible though, and I'm sure we will see that character on the big screen again at some point. I'm just interested to know how people think he might translate into Reeve's vision, as opposed to the version we know from the comics and cartoons.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Mr. Freeze is probably the #1 villain I want to see again after Riddler and Penguin. I think he has yet to be done justice in live action, and I believe that Reeves could tell a very compelling story and make him work in the context of his world.

 

[Chris Reeves]

Mr. Freeze is probably the #1 villain I want to see again after Riddler and Penguin. I think he has yet to be done justice in live action, and I believe that Reeves could tell a very compelling story and make him work in the context of his world.

I am actually surprised to see how many people would be down with seeing Mr. Freeze in Reeve's trilogy, I just get a sense that some people basically want to see a live-action Heart of Ice, which doesn't necessarily appeal to me. That's not to say I don't also enjoy that character, and that I don't see the possibilities for how the character can be adapted, I'm just not sure I want to see freeze rays and fishbowls lmao

 

[Gothamsknight]

I am actually surprised to see how many people would be down with seeing Mr. Freeze in Reeve's trilogy, I just get a sense that some people basically want to see a live-action Heart of Ice, which doesn't necessarily appeal to me. That's not to say I don't also enjoy that character, and that I don't see the possibilities for how the character can be adapted, I'm just not sure I want to see freeze rays and fishbowls lmao

Well part of what excites me about it is knowing how different it'll end up being. Just like how this Riddler seems to be a version we've never seen, so will Mr. Freeze, I'm sure. That prospect, under Reeves writing and direction, is just too cool not to get excited about for me personally. I can't imagine what Freeze would look like in this world and that's what excites me haha.

 

[Chris Reeves]

Well part of what excites me about it is knowing how different it'll end up being. Just like how this Riddler seems to be a version we've never seen, so will Mr. Freeze, I'm sure. That prospect, under Reeves writing and direction, is just too cool not to get excited about for me personally. I can't imagine what Freeze would look like in this world and that's what excites me haha.

Well story-wise, cryogenics is probably the limit to which I can extend my disbelief lol I can definitely see ways it could work in Reeves universe, and I am open to the possibilities. I just want this to be a pitch-black Batman trilogy, with absolutely zero cheese. Reeves has already mentioned that Oswald doesn't like to be called Penguin, but I don't think I can get behind a character whose name just happens to be a homonym for the same thing he's known by. That kind of thing is just a bit too cringe for me. Good point about the Riddler, though; he seems to be an incarnation we've never seen while still remaining true to the idea of that character (e.g. leaving riddles), so I guess I should have a bit more confidence that Reeves & co. could find a new and interesting way to make it work in his universe.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I feel like making Freeze's condition believable is quite doable. There's people out there who are literally allergic to sunlight. Maybe don't take the accident approach, but instead more of a genetic disability to do with body temperature. And that leads him into trying to further develop cryogenics so he can have a better quality of life. But then he starts using it for darker reasons to save his wife.

 

[BatLobster]

The one thing that does make me think Reeves could do something special with Freeze is the fact that he made two very VFX-driven films with the Apes movies. I think there are a lot of possibilities of what you could do with the character with modern effects, and some kind of hybrid between costume/prosthetics/motion capture, depending on how you designed it. And to top it off you could have tragic pathos with the character just like Caesar, so everything about it is right in Reeves' wheelhouse IMO. It's just a matter of figuring out where the balance is in terms of this gritty and grounded Gotham he's establishing.

I would use Watchmen as an example. Just because something has supernatural or comic-booky elements, doesn't mean it can't be a dark and serious story too. I'm not one of those fans that demands it has to go in that direction, but I'm playing devil's advocate for why it could probably work if Reeves wanted to go in that direction and had an emotional hook into what he wanted to do with the character.

I just want this to be a pitch-black Batman trilogy, with absolutely zero cheese.

I dunno man. I don't think that's really possible. This is still about a guy who plays dress up as a bat and has cool gadgets at the end of the day. You're starting with a floor of at least 10% cheese based on that alone.

 

[B]

As always with comic book characters once you go beyond even an extraordinary human being you need to filter your mind in terms of what is or isn't believable.

I think they could do Mr. Freeze in a believable world, but how comic accurate he is would depend on how far you're willing to maybe scale back his 'condition'.

There's bound to be a real world medical condition(s) that would perhaps justify the need for someone that needed to be kept constantly cooled. You're obviously going to have to stretch your imagination a little bit so that he's formidable a villain, as I surmise anybody with such a condition would be on their death bed.

 

[shauner111]

See, I don’t find that cheesy unless it looks cheesy. The idea of a guy dressing up in disguise taking down criminals isn’t even eye rolling. The bat element is actually what makes it scary to me unless of course his costume is horrendous. But if there’s a way to be stealthy about it, it’s more straight mental horror than a cheesy concept.

Freeze is a character I’ll always be down to see, especially from a director I trust. But I’m not convinced it’s gonna happen. Or that they can make it work until I actually see a photo. Casting is super important too.

 

[Chris Reeves]

The one thing that does make me think Reeves could do something special with Freeze is the fact that he made two very VFX-driven films with the Apes movies. I think there are a lot of possibilities of what you could do with the character with modern effects, and some kind of hybrid between costume/prosthetics/motion capture, depending on how you designed it. And to top it off you could have tragic pathos with the character just like Caesar, so everything about it is right in Reeves' wheelhouse IMO. It's just a matter of figuring out where the balance is in terms of this gritty and grounded Gotham he's establishing.

I would use Watchmen as an example. Just because something has supernatural or comic-booky elements, doesn't mean it can't be a dark and serious story too. I'm not one of those fans that demands it has to go in that direction, but I'm playing devil's advocate for why it could probably work if Reeves wanted to go in that direction and had an emotional hook into what he wanted to do with the character.



I dunno man. I don't think that's really possible. This is still about a guy who plays dress up as a bat and has cool gadgets at the end of the day. You're starting with a floor of at least 10% cheese based on that alone.

That strong cheese though lmao the kind you can't open on airplanes or public transit

 

[Chris Reeves]

See, I don’t find that cheesy unless it looks cheesy. The idea of a guy dressing up in disguise taking down criminals isn’t even eye rolling. The bat element is actually what makes it scary to me unless of course his costume is horrendous. But if there’s a way to be stealthy about it, it’s more straight mental horror than a cheesy concept.

Freeze is a character I’ll always be down to see, especially from a director I trust. But I’m not convinced it’s gonna happen. Or that they can make it work until I actually see a photo. Casting is super important too.

These are all good points. First it's the angle/context, then the actor, then the look. If they can get these things right, I'm here for it.

 

[shauner111]

The angle/context will work coming off this Riddler plot. And Reeves always makes it personal so I have no doubts there. The casting has been a bit unconventional but right on the money so far so I have zero jitters about that. The look is the tricky part as well as the name.

 

[BatLobster]

See, I don’t find that cheesy unless it looks cheesy. The idea of a guy dressing up in disguise taking down criminals isn’t even eye rolling. The bat element is actually what makes it scary to me unless of course his costume is horrendous. But if there’s a way to be stealthy about it, it’s more straight mental horror than a cheesy concept.

I mean, it's totally subjective. The idea of a vigilante on its own, sure, it could be totally 100% scary and serious. But for me, I just think once you add the cape and ears, the vehicles, the gadgets, etc. you start to inherit all the cultural baggage that comes with the iconography. Those things are inherently about the fun and escapism of it, and I think it's okay to embrace that. Maybe "cheese" is the wrong word, but it brings a certain level of fun. Cause it's like, "F*** yeah." Who wouldn't want to be behind the wheel of the Batmobile? There's a primal, escapism sort of element to the character that wouldn't be present if you were just doing a story about a psycho who decided to take the law into their own hands by scaring criminals and that's it. And heck, Pattinson's mask directly reminds me of Adam West in some ways.

I also think you can go so far with the grimdark, melodramatic thing (Oh hai Zack) that it becomes somewhat laughable and over the top too.

 

[DeadlyWest]

The angle/context will work coming off this Riddler plot. And Reeves always makes it personal so I have no doubts there. The casting has been a bit unconventional but right on the money so far so I have zero jitters about that. The look is the tricky part as well as the name.

To be fair as well with how they basically turned Collin into a different person, I've got faith they can take another actor and make him look completely different too

 

[shauner111]

That’s only because the acting didn’t sell it most of the time and the music was obnoxious anytime he was on screen. So it starts to feel like a parody almost. But there’s a way to push it to the extreme and have it come off differently.

 

[Boom]

Wanting Mr. Freeze is basically wanting Heart of Ice (or so I've observed), which I don't particularly need to see again.

Loved Mr. Freeze as a kid, but the older I've gotten the more I've realized that Freeze was only ever made interesting by his origin and its accompanying storyline. Take that away, there's not much there worth exploring. I'd rather see other characters that Reeves can be more flexible with.

 

[shauner111]

You’re not wrong. He’s a one trick pony. But I do want to see it done properly in live action. I really do. I just don’t know if this trilogy is the place.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I'd contend Arkham Knight's DLC side mission with Mr Freeze was really damn good though. It works as an almost sequel to Heart of Ice and an end to Freeze's story

 

[BatLobster]

That’s only because the acting didn’t sell it most of the time and the music was obnoxious anytime he was on screen. So it starts to feel like a parody almost. But there’s a way to push it to the extreme and have it come off differently.

It could come off differently, for sure. Direction is everything. I'm just saying, would people be happy with this movie if it was...no cape (face it, capes are a silly liability, The Incredibles demonstrated this), no gadgets, no grapple hook, no Batmobile. Just the most gritty, down to Earth, low-tech Batman you've ever seen, with absolutely nothing in it that fed into any sort of escapist elements? I know I wouldn't care to see that. Just make a movie about an original vigilante character then.

These things are fun parts of the character, and we want them there because they're fun, familiar and iconic. That's all I'm saying. I think people love Batman because he's an escapist fantasy of "What if I was rich and was motivated enough to turn myself into an uber badass and be a hero?", as much as they do for him being a psychologically messed up, wounded soul. The blend of those two things is what makes Batman what it is and have the mass appeal it does.

That's not to say that Reeves' universe has to delve headfirst into sci-fi and fantasy, that can be dialed in to whatever degree he deems appropriate for this take. But I do think there's always a seed of that present, because we're dealing with a character who has access to tech that is supposed to be on the cutting edge of what actually exists. And that has to change with the times too, because by 1960s standards we all pretty much have a Batcomputer in our pockets right now.

You’re not wrong. He’s a one trick pony. But I do want to see it done properly in live action. I really do. I just don’t know if this trilogy is the place.

Yeah, to be clear, Reeves should only explore the villains he wants to and feels he can bring something fresh to. Story is king there, and I have no real opinion on who he should and shouldn't use beyond hoping to see Hugo Strange make an appearance somewhere in these movies. But I think if he's going to commit to really fleshing out an expanded bat-universe, it might be nice to at least leave the door open for some of these other characters to exist. Especially if there's a long-term outlook for this universe to continue past when he finishes his films.

 

[Boom]

I'd contend Arkham Knight's DLC side mission with Mr Freeze was really damn good though. It works as an almost sequel to Heart of Ice and an end to Freeze's story

For me, Batman's truly great villains are the ones that have certain beats you want to hit on, but otherwise that are extremely flexible in terms of what stories you can tell with them. I could easily envision five wildly different takes on The Penguin in live action that each succeed on their own merit.

I just don't see that with this character. He is so intrinsically tied to that Heart of Ice storyline that divorcing him from it is difficult to wrap my head around.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Well story-wise, cryogenics is probably the limit to which I can extend my disbelief lol I can definitely see ways it could work in Reeves universe, and I am open to the possibilities. I just want this to be a pitch-black Batman trilogy, with absolutely zero cheese. Reeves has already mentioned that Oswald doesn't like to be called Penguin, but I don't think I can get behind a character whose name just happens to be a homonym for the same thing he's known by. That kind of thing is just a bit too cringe for me. Good point about the Riddler, though; he seems to be an incarnation we've never seen while still remaining true to the idea of that character (e.g. leaving riddles), so I guess I should have a bit more confidence that Reeves & co. could find a new and interesting way to make it work in his universe.

It may be hard to imagine now, but what if when we see what Reeves does with him, we're like "aaahhh, this makes sense!"? I also think we need something to wipe the taste of the B&R version out of our mouths. There was a bit of art on here no too long ago of Freeze in a winter coat, which is something I can absolutely see. whether or not there's a bowl on his head is another question haha.

How would everybody feel if instead of a bowl, it's another mask of sorts?

 

[Boom]

I remember way back during the Nolan days, someone did a really cool piece of concept art for a "realistic" Mr. Freeze that utilized a liquid nitrogen gun. The costume was very evocative of a flame suit, if I remember correctly. Something like this:

Probably impossible to dig that thing up at this point.

 

[BatLobster]

For me, Batman's truly great villains are the ones that have certain beats you want to hit on, but otherwise that are extremely flexible in terms of what stories you can tell with them.

I just don't see that with this character. He is so intrinsically tied to that Heart of Ice story.

That just sparked a thought. You know what'd be a cool way to do Freeze in this universe? Stand alone short film on HBO Max.

You could basically hit on the Heart of Ice beats, with some kind of fresh twist. Pie in the sky, but since we're already doing crossover streaming shows, why not? You could do one-off short films between films to flesh out the universe and include some of the villains that the movies don't have room for. I highly doubt it, but I feel like if the goal here is to build out the most comprehensive live-action Bat-universe yet (and WB wants dat streaming content), I feel like this wouldn't be a bad option to consider.

 

[Mindreaper21]

As much as I like Freeze, I don’t think he would be a great for a main villain in the second film. Give me Two-Face, Scarecrow, or even Hatter if this trilogy focuses on mobs, serial killers and secret societies. I’d keep Freeze in a single area similar to the Arkham games. Probably in the lower levels of Gothcorp which is thought to be abandoned and he can never leave, because it would kill him. I would also give him a cryogenic suit and wouldn’t give him a freeze gun but something more like a cryogenic fire extinguisher. Freeze would be a more like a government secret being extorted for something that relies on Freeze’s skills, but is also something that Batman needs. Then when something goes wrong, it ensures Nora’s death and Freeze goes on a rampage killing numerous government agents with his bare hands, liquid nitrogen connected to the sprinkler systems. Freeze would have a short battle with Batman before he ultimately gives Batman what he needs. Then Freeze would set Gothcorp to be demolished, killing himself along with Nora.

 

[Chris Reeves]

I mentioned it before on another thread, but once way I think it's be cool (pardon the pun) to see Mr. Freeze in a film (regardless of director) would be if cryogenics were being used as a means to move ahead in time, say to evade a charge, or outlive a rival, etc. It could actually be a neat way to incorporate the whole Nora angle, having Victor wake up x number of years later to realize she's sick, has died, was murdered, etc.