Negativity towards the DC films?

[Axl Van Sixx]

Does anyone find that there seems to be a huge amount of negativity online regarding films in the DC Extended Universe? I'm not sure how much of this is representative of the larger population, and I get that Man of Steel was a controversial film. But it just seems like whenever I see something cool from Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman or whatever, the positive comments are overwhelmingly drowned out by the sheer vitriol and negativity basically complaining and criticizing every aspect of the production and DC films in general.

What are your thoughts? Personally, I like everything I've seen, but the future of this cinematic universe relies on the movies being popular and well-liked enough for the studio to make more. Marvel has the advantage of having proven themselves in a way that has created trust in their brand. Is the negativity towards DC films a real problem, and if so, is it simply a result of the fact that all we have to go on so far is one hugely divisive film in the form of MOS?

 

[BH/HHH]

I am extremely pleased with what I've seen so far, I love Man of Steel, I'm crazy excited for Batman v Superman & Suicide Squad, the future looks bright. All in all an amazing time to be a comics fan!

As for the haters let them hate, haters gonna hate!

 

[Rowsdower!]

I think it's just the age we're living in. People who spend the majority of their time posting on the internet about movies and entertainment tend to be very reactionary and whenever something... ANYTHING... rubs them the wrong way, they act like someone just curbstomped their puppy right in front of them. Unfortunately, these people, while not necessarily the majority, are the ones who feel the need to make their voices heard the loudest.

 

[BH/HHH]

I think it's just the age we're living in. People who spend the majority of their time posting on the internet about movies and entertainment tend to be very reactionary and whenever something... ANYTHING... rubs them the wrong way, they act like someone just curbstomped their puppy right in front of them. Unfortunately, these people, while not necessarily the majority, are the ones who feel the need to make their voices heard the loudest.

Exactly, everyone's a critic, the Internet has given everyone a voice. People want to be heard as you said, so they will be continually negative towards something rather than continually positive towards something they actually like.

People are always trying to be smarter than the material swell, dissecting a film or a character like they are experts in a particular field.

I'm not saying everyone whose negative falls into this category but there's definitely a majority of people that are this way.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, it seems like a large contingent of people these days walk into a movie with a notepad and write down all of the things they perceive as mistakes. It seems like so many people out there are only able to enjoy a movie anymore if they convinced themselves it was going to be good before they even sat down to watch it.

 

[SoultakerKatana]

Fanboys complain about everything

 

[ernesth100]

Y'know in all honesty half them just dont wanna admit they're wrong.

 

[The Joker]

If there's a lot of negativity it's because people are not liking what they're seeing. I'm not saying every single complaint has not been a nit pick, because every movie gets some nit picks, but the majority I've seen have been valid. Man of Steel is disliked for many legitimate reasons. Batman vs Superman looks like a clustered movie, an attempt to fast track to a JL movie so WB/DC can catch up with Marvel. Luthor looks like a cheese ball. Doomsday's design is bleh. Cavill's acting came off as wooden many times in the clips we've been shown etc.

With Suicide Squad the bulk of the complaints I've seen have been aimed towards Leto's Joker design, which is totally justified to be criticized. Apart from that I haven't seen any other major complaints and most people seem to be positive towards it.

I haven't seen much feedback yet about the new Wonder Woman footage, but the handful of comments I did read were positive, and personally I liked what I saw.

It's not like the fanboy cycle where opinions change over night when something new comes out suddenly the older stuff that was once popular is bashed to hell in favor of making the new stuff look better. That's what you call real unnecessary negativity.

Y'know in all honesty half them just dont wanna admit they're wrong.

Wrong about what?

 

[Supa]

They're in a pretty ****** position, all in all. Marvel's pretty much completely saturated snd taken over the superhero movie department and everyone and their mother is trying to get in on the Cinematic Universe train. A lot of people are already getting sick of the obvious sequel set ups and huge number of characters.

My problem with the DCCU and Batman v Superman is opposed to trying to avert that, they've immediately dropped a ton of cameos into the movie and are going to suffer from the exact same problems Marvel has only they're gonna be "grittier" or whatever. And in my opinion at least, the only reasons Marvel did what it did with the Avengers is because they did first, and they also had a tongue-in-cheek and fun vibe to it, acknowledging the silliness of the whole concept. Superheroes are kind of inherently a blockbuster type of thing, and I think DC playing their superheroes as gritty as they are in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman is gonna bite them in the ass.

I'm no expert on this, don't get me wrong. I just feel a lot of audiences are becoming a lot less enamored with the idea, and DC's approach isn't going to do them much favors. Financially, I think it'll do fine. But with critics and fans, I don't see it getting much praise, especially considering how fast Marvel is losing it.

 

[TeeKay]

There will always be criticism and negativity towards any CBM be it DC, Marvel or Fox. Basically like Joker said,people are not liking what they see. Its that simple really.

To answer the question, yeah my negativity for DC atm stems from how disappointed I was with MoS. BvS looks like a mess. Everything was good until they released that 3rd trailer. It just looks like MoS 2.0 mashed with AoU. But everything else I'm on board with. The Flash suit eh.... WW footage looked beautiful and SS looks amazing.

 

[C. Lee]

I've learned from using the internet over the years that most people who use the internet don't like anything (except complaining about everything they see). Saying something is getting negative responses on the internet is like saying that the sun is hot.

 

[samsnee]

There will always be criticism and negativity towards any CBM be it DC, Marvel or Fox. Basically like Joker said,people are not liking what they see. Its that simple really.

To answer the question, yeah my negativity for DC atm stems from how disappointed I was with MoS. BvS looks like a mess. Everything was good until they released that 3rd trailer. It just looks like MoS 2.0 mashed with AoU. But everything else I'm on board with. The Flash suit eh.... WW footage looked beautiful and SS looks amazing.

Agree with this completely. I don't want the DC universe to be just Marvel 2.0. But from what I've seen of Man of Steel, which was a slog to get through, and since BvS is the same director, I have little excitement. I am looking forward to SS. Wonder Woman is too early to tell on anything.

 

[Silly Cat]

The funny thing is...you can bet your life saving that they will all go and see the films when they come out. And they'll probably go and see them multiple times so they can take extensive notes on all the reasons the films 'suck' All the while their money will be flying into WB pockets anyway.

So let them waste their time bashing a film they hate, WB could probably care less so long as they're making a profit, and you can rest assued almost everyone and their mother are going to see BvS (Batman and Superman together for first time) and Suicide Squad (Jokers back) regardless of how much they complain.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Try to keep the criticism in perspective as well. If there are a lot of people complaining about one particular thing (such as the look of The Joker), that does not necessarily they are complaining about the entire film/franchise.

 

[rogbngp]

I want to think that it's that many people really only have the illusion that they're truly thinking for themselves. I.e., that they're jumping on the bandwagon and don't quite realize it. If all their peers one day told them they all loved Man of Steel, would they find suddenly themselves liking it?

Currently there aren't that many recent DC films that can compete with the MCU. It's pretty much Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy (which remains pretty darn popular) and Man of Steel (about which the fan base is divided). The Superman films from the 70's and 80's are so dated now. And Green Lantern was a debacle.

I can understand why people like the MCU better so far. Tbh, I'm more a fan of the DC characters and I like them better (the MCU films, that is). Marvel is great at what they do. But I do love MoS now just a hair's breadth from equally with my favorite Marvel character films.

Anyway, I think all of this is about to change dramatically. BvS will truly set the new DC Films universe in motion, and it's about to truly rival Marvel.

 

[Big Bang]

I'm intrigued to see what DC has to offer. I wouldn't oversell them just yet and say that they are ready to go toe to toe with the MCU. IMO, WB/DC needs to meet the expectations of its own potential before we go there.

Now if they can pull that off, then I really look forward to golden age of CBM's getting even better with being able to see both Marvel and DC CU's expanding.

 

[Supa]

Always hate when people bring out accusations of bandwagons. If you can't think of a half-decent counterpoint then what you're arguing for probably isn't that good in the first place.

I have my doubts because I found MoS to be pretty meh overall, and Batman v Superman looks like it's just immediately jumping the gun to catch up to Marvel. Putting like 6 new superheroes into one film, revealing Doomsday in a trailer! What's the thought process there, other than wanting to get Justice League as fast as possible. It's gonna end up feeling like Age of Ultron where the film is overstuffed and over saturated with plot points and characters.

That's the biggest criticism superhero films get, that they get so focused on world building they forget to tell an actual story. And from what I've seen thus far, DC isn't looking to break the mold.

 

[The Guard]

I think it's just general internet prejudging. A lot of major assumptions based on limited information. That, and DC is "second to the party" at this point. I think there's the idea in certain circles that somehow they're creatively ripping off Marvel, which is kind of absurd, seeing as how WB had plans for a cinematic universe years ago, and the idea of such a concept has been going throughout comics fandom for decades. WB just didn't go about it the same way.

People seem to think it's this big deal that WB wants to make a superhero movie universe, as if Marvel was the first studio to have the idea. The idea of "shared universes" is not a new concept...it's simply coming around again in cinema, and in the superhero genre. But the comics and various other media have featured "shared universes" for years. It's not that novel a concept. It's actually fairly obvious when you think about it.

A lot of the concerns people have are valid, but also a bit overblown, and they're often not presented in a particularly balanced manner. But what is on the internet? Fanboys tend to be very black and white, whether their opinions are positive or negative.

What does "catch up to Marvel" even mean in context? It's not like WB is going to actually "catch up". They're probably never going to have the kind of output Marvel has, or as many films total, etc.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't think anyone is saying a shared universe is a novel, completely original concept. Marvel just did it on the biggest scale yet and showed every other studio with superhero properties, WB especially, that they've been leaving money on the table. Remember Geoff Johns back in 2010-2011 saying that WB was going to keep everything separated?
Generally I feel that this place is far more DC friendly than a lot of other places on the Internet. I suspect a good portion of the hate is due to the "hive mind" mentality of pouncing on DC since they've been lapped by Marvel, but the internet is nothing if not fickle so a few good films and a good portion of the "haters" will be left silent. Man of steel being so lackluster and controversial decisions like casting Affleck as Batman (which I was on board with since almost day one) and stuffing BvS to the brim don't help things but it remains to be seen how everything will play out.

 

[brandeezy89]

Most people who are negative don't even have the correct information. They think Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman, Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman will all be suited up fighting in this movie. I guarantee that Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg have a total of a min in screen time out of a 2 hour and 31 min. film. Cyborg and Flash suits aren't even ready yet and weren't ready back when they were filming

 

[dude stannis]

It's also been systematically entrenched by the film nerd GOP, Faraci, Knowles, Collider, etc. They've already made up their minds and they're gong to push their agenda.

 

[The Guard]

I don't think anyone is saying a shared universe is a novel, completely original concept. Marvel just did it on the biggest scale yet and showed every other studio with superhero properties, WB especially, that they've been leaving money on the table. Remember Geoff Johns back in 2010-2011 saying that WB was going to keep everything separated?

There's what a company says, and what a company does.

Movie studios have known there's money to be made...just not exactly how to best leverage the concepts.

Remember the previous BATMAN VS SUPERMAN? The project that got as far as potential casting before the plug was pulled? Remember JUSTICE LEAGUE: MORTAL? WB isn't just now foraying into the idea of a shared superhero universe. GREEN LANTERN was testing the waters...

For years, WB had been soliciting superhero scripts. There were a number of Wonder Woman and Flash projects being considered several years prior to MAN OF STEEL, etc.

This isn't some amazing new thing that WB has never wanted before. There was talk of a DC cinematic universe over a decade ago. It was a very hot topic around the time BATMAN BEGINS came out, and especially in 2008.

 

[godisawesome]

I don't know if I'd call the DCF hate "bandwagon", but the negativity is accepted enough to also fall into the safe area for geeks to make fun of, on both sides, and thus it gets a higher profile.

The core of the argument that I see has to deal with online fans having a vitriolic war of the philosophy behind how MOS portrayed it's character and world in comparison to what some fans want. Superman fans are roughly divided on a schism as to how important Superman's humanity and his purpose as a wish-fulfillment character should stand in proportion to each other. To use a Marvel analogy, some think Superman should have his world and personality treated with the same respect as Captain America: The Winter Soldier, with consequences, ramifications, sincere portrayals of characters, and a general approach of highlighting Superman's power and heritage by contrasting it with aspects of the real world. Continuing the analogy, others feel Superman needs to be more in the more loose and vaguely self aware landscape, like the more accepted "Marvel formula" that is already known to DC fans as "Donner's formula."

And that same argument applies to the rest of the DC characters, bar Batman. I mean, asides from some residual Anti-Affleck sentiment, you'll notice very little of the criticism heading towards him, Joker, or Harley Quinn, Croc, etc is anywhere near as schismatic. I mean, most of the critiques for the Gotham characters are centered on visual aspects. Meanwhile, people want a more colorful universe for the rest for the characters, while I feel that DC is deliberately trying to highlight them and their altruism against a drab world in a more concrete and less gilded way. I mean, we're going to see a pretty serious Wonder Woman in WWI, and while Thor or Captain America: The First Avenger, created large theatrical worlds, WB wants her to seem more real, more sincere. And Aquaman is going to be the PAD warrior king with a multicultural edge instead of the vehemently old school one some people like. And some people don't like that.

I'll say I have to watch myself in my counter arguments; it's too easy for me to chalk all complaints up to short sighted and dogmatic Silver Age purists who wouldn't know a good Superman story if it flew right under their face because their blind obsession with subpar and boring concepts and characterizations from the 70's refuses to leave them, and that they want to ruin my comics and movies with their antiquated BS that pales even in comparison to the Timmverse cartoons I grew up.

I know that's not true, but hey, I have to fight it.

 

[rogbngp]

Always hate when people bring out accusations of bandwagons. If you can't think of a half-decent counterpoint then what you're arguing for probably isn't that good in the first place.

I have my doubts because I found MoS to be pretty meh overall, and Batman v Superman looks like it's just immediately jumping the gun to catch up to Marvel. Putting like 6 new superheroes into one film, revealing Doomsday in a trailer! What's the thought process there, other than wanting to get Justice League as fast as possible. It's gonna end up feeling like Age of Ultron where the film is overstuffed and over saturated with plot points and characters.

That's the biggest criticism superhero films get, that they get so focused on world building they forget to tell an actual story. And from what I've seen thus far, DC isn't looking to break the mold.

I think there is every reason to believe at this point BvS will focus pretty squarely on Batman versus Superman. It will introduce Wonder Woman in an important but lesser role. She is important to the formation of the JL trinity, but the film will still be about Batman versus Superman. There will at best be some brief, very minor cameos for Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg. Hopefully, as rumored, there will be a Watchmen style montage during the end credits that gives us glimpses of the JL to come.

Anyway, that doesn't sound AoU style bloated to me.

I actually got distracted when composing what I wrote about the bandwagon phenomenon, and forgot to add that while I would like to think that, maybe it is just that people don't like what they like for legitimate reasons, lol. FWIW, I think we do all have "groupthink" in various forms, though, so I do not exempt myself from it. I guess I have it to some extent myself with my own love of Marvel films.* Again FWIW, I don't feel the need to go into why I love MoS, although I could. I've written long essays on it, but I won't bore you with them. One bandwagon that I'm not on, however, is that I'm actually not that much a fan of the Nolan trilogy to be honest. (I do like TDKR, oddly enough--mainly I think Hardy's Bane is a blast, and I also really like Hathaway's Selena Kyle.) Sadly, I actually struggle to enjoy the Donner/Reeve Superman films now.

*My top 10 favorite CBMs are hardly that original:

1. Guardians of the Galaxy
2. Man of Steel
3. The Avengers
4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
5. Captain America: The First Avenger
6. Iron Man
7. X-Men: First Class
8. Watchmen
9. Hellboy
10. The Dark Knight Rises

 

[PacificBoy]

From what I've seen, the criticism is largely MoS and Zack Snyder centric/induced, which has spilled over to Batman v Superman. Suicide Squad (especially after the latest trailer), Wonder Woman, talk of an Affleck-directed Batman movie, all seem generally well received.

Once BvS opens (and the pressure valve of being the flagship bearer for the DCEU is released) and SS and WW rolls out soon after, once it has more movies and success under its belt, the negative talk should naturally die down, as the cinematic universe expands past Zack Snyder.

There will be more to love, more to criticize, more to dislike, more to forget. In other words, it'll become more like Marvel.