World Rian Johnson's trilogy

[Aximili86]

TLJ caused Solo to flop.

That would be a pretty convenient notion for you now, wouldn't it?

Nothing to base it on whatsoever.

 

[Asharad]

TLJ caused Solo to flop.

If you watched Solo, you know why it flopped. It was predictable, bland, and generally the opposite of fun.

 

[Grootster]

If you watched Solo, you know why it flopped. It was predictable, bland, and generally the opposite of fun.

I did watch Solo, and I disagree with all of these except "predictable". Yeah, the fact that we know Han and Chewie survive made it kind of predictable. That much being said, this applies to pretty much any prequel.

I didn't find it bland or "the opposite of fun". I wasn't the biggest Solo fan, but I actually think lighthearted fun was one of the saving graces of the movie for me (a lot of other people seem to say the same thing).

Ironically, I'd use both of those phrases to describe TLJ.

 

[Synaptic Flow]

Why on god's green earth are they giving him his own trilogy?

After the fan backlash from TLJ, maybe they'll rethink this. And if Solo fails, maybe they'll rethink taking a monumental risk like putting Darth Rian in charge of an entire trilogy.

I'm not hyped for this one at all.

Well said!

 

[Aximili86]

For ****'s sake. You people.

 

[Last Skywalker]

If that's really what you think, that's fine, I can't argue with that. But it's undeniable that a lot of the fans now calling for Rian Johnson's head are the same people who were railing against "Jar Jar Abrams" after TFA and were championing Johnson coming in and doing something different. And just based on sheer probability, a lot of those same people loved Ozymandias when it aired too (because who didn't, it's one of the greatest episodes of television ever). The hatred for Johnson is based on TLJ more than anything. They've just used TLJ to retroactively reassess his career and push this narrative that he's this terrible person whose career should die.

Bold: And wasn't written by one Rian Johnson.

The directing on TLJ was competent enough. The writing was feminist fan fiction. Rian is either the worst writer on the face of the Earth, or gave Kennedy anything she wanted.

I do agree about Abrams, but then most of those folks had a problem with him BEFORE TFA. After? Not so much. And with $2b in the bank, its safe to say the criticism didn't hurt much.

Unless of course you were Kathleen Kennedy and looking to impose your feminist will on the franchise and trying to use a severe minority as political cover to make your changes(they hated TFA, so we fixed those problems by doing whatever we wanted and ramming it down their throats!).

 

[Ozbridge]

I’ve only read posts on this page but why is feminism suddenly considered a bad thing?

 

[BatLobster]

Bold: And wasn't written by one Rian Johnson.

Sure, but hey- he also gets the blame for the weird bottle episode "Fly" which he also didn't write. Point being, he directed the crap out of both episodes IMO, especially Ozymandias, and was generally seen as a fanboy darling before a certain segment of fandom decided to retroactively paint him as Rian Johnson: Filmmaking Troll-Villain Extraordinaire. People were excited when he was announced to direct Episode VIII. Including people who now call for his head, and for Kennedy's head for hiring him in the first place. That was all I was saying. Most of my posts on this subject aren't an attempt to convince anyone that they should like TLJ, it's more than fine to dislike it and I get it to a certain extent- just pointing out the sheer craziness and extremity of the way much of the backlash has played out.

The directing on TLJ was competent enough. The writing was feminist fan fiction. Rian is either the worst writer on the face of the Earth, or gave Kennedy anything she wanted.

I do agree about Abrams, but then most of those folks had a problem with him BEFORE TFA. After? Not so much. And with $2b in the bank, its safe to say the criticism didn't hurt much.

Unless of course you were Kathleen Kennedy and looking to impose your feminist will on the franchise and trying to use a severe minority as political cover to make your changes(they hated TFA, so we fixed those problems by doing whatever we wanted and ramming it down their throats!).

You'd have to really use selective memory to pretend there was not a prevalent post-release backlash to TFA. The 2 billion is a result of the return of Star Wars being legitimate pop culture phenomenon and it being a generally fun, well-directed film that people had a blast with. It was a mainstream smashing success, that is obvious.

I'm talking about the loud counter-narrative from certain corners of fandom who regularly said it was just a creatively bankrupt rehash of A New Hope, Rey was a Mary Sue, adapting the EU would've been so much better, it was too light on substance etc. It was akin to Avatar, IMO. Both were ginormous event movies that got hit with a lot of backlash for being unoriginal. Whether you think that's fair or not is another matter (my feelings on it are complicated), but it was out there anywhere you looked if you're in fandom. My point is there has to be some percentage of these people that have willfully forgotten all of that and now retroactively pretend that they liked TFA jussst fine, as a means to further the narrative of TLJ being the death of the franchise. It's such an obvious sign of being blinded by anger and having 0 self-awareness.

And I know there are fans who legitimately liked TFA and felt disappointed by TLJ. That's fine, not talking about those people. Just using the sheer probability, and the fact that people who use nicknames like "Jar Jar Abrams" would be the same people who say "Ruin Johnson". I mean, it's all too obvious.

Btw, for a guy with 67 posts, you seem pretty well-acquainted with these parts. I dare say your posting style feels a bit...familiar.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I never hated TFA, but even when it came out, it felt like ANH rehash to me, and I still feel that way. It's a main reason Abrams worries me. I've never really been an Abrams guy. I think he is a FINE director, but I don't think he is GREAT. Abrams makes films that are competent, but not special. I have been saying that for years.

Honestly, the thing I like Abrams most for is paying to get Phantasm remastered so I could finally buy those movies at a reasonable price.

 

[Last Skywalker]

I never hated TFA, but even when it came out, it felt like ANH rehash to me, and I still feel that way.

Same.. but I don't really care? It was still a good movie and did what it needed to do in both putting the prequels behind us, while setting up the coming story. It made $2 billion. People liked it.

Except for Rian Johnson, I guess. Who did everything he could to ignore it at every turn.

It's a main reason Abrams worries me. I've never really been an Abrams guy. I think he is a FINE director, but I don't think he is GREAT. Abrams makes films that are competent, but not special. I have been saying that for years.

I'm not sure Abrams would have the balls to take 9 to where it needs to go.

Any type of happy ending in 9 is imo a tacit admission of failure. Things need to end very badly for the Super Friends, and Rey in particular should be (metaphorically) getting her teeth kicked in around the end of 9, if they actually knew what they were doing.

Honestly, the thing I like Abrams most for is paying to get Phantasm remastered so I could finally buy those movies at a reasonable price.

He really annoyed me with the Khan stuff. But recreating a variation on the past via his alternate universe motif, tends to be a trope of his.

 

[BatLobster]

Any type of happy ending in 9 is imo a tacit admission of failure. Things need to end very badly for the Super Friends, and Rey in particular should be (metaphorically) getting her teeth kicked in around the end of 9, if they actually knew what they were doing.

You've gotta be kidding me with this. I definitely think it's obvious that Rey should be put through the ringer in the final chapter, but to not have it end with a victory? To make Episode IX a repeat of Episode III and just a giant setup for Episodes X-XII....yeah, I would lose all respect for Abrams if that was the direction. That would be the true surrender.

Newsflash, Abrams created Rey, loves the character, has a good relationship with Daisy. You'd have to be certifiably nuts to think there won't be a note of triumph in her ending. But I'm pretty sure you're well aware you just put forth a ridiculous expectation that has little chance of happening. You continue to play into my suspicions that you are a troll.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Just for ****s and giggles they should let Abrams direct the middle movie.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I’ve only read posts on this page but why is feminism suddenly considered a bad thing?

I'm guessing the whole thing with Poe and the pink-haired admiral in the ball gown in the Last Jedi. Beating us over the head with the "mansplaining" thing.

 

[Last Skywalker]

You've gotta be kidding me with this. I definitely think it's obvious that Rey should be put through the ringer in the final chapter, but to not have it end with a victory?

Correct.

To make Episode IX a repeat of Episode III and just a giant setup for Episodes X-XII....

That's Star Wars.

You can't have a hero arc without the hero getting their teeth (metaphorically) kicked in, and you're utterly clueless about the structure of Star Wars if you believe that the light side should win. Winning is for 12, not 9. 9 is for everything going up in a cloud of smoke(including Rey) as the Dark Side wins out.

The trilogies follow a specific structure where the power structure flips every trilogy between light and dark. Good starts out strong at the start of 1, only to be brought low by the end of 3. Bad starts out strong in 4, only to be brought low by the end of 6.

Light started out strong in 7, while starting its fall, came even with the dark side in 8, and should continue its fall to a low in 9.

Dark started out weak in 7, came even with light in 8, and should win out to end 9.

If you aren't following that X motif, you don't know much about Star Wars.

yeah, I would lose all respect for Abrams if that was the direction. That would be the true surrender.

To continue the story and structure of Star Wars? Hardly. Remember, there be some rhyming going on in these woods.

Newsflash, Abrams created Rey, loves the character, has a good relationship with Daisy. You'd have to be certifiably nuts to think there won't be a note of triumph in her ending.

9 isn't the place for bleeding hearts, unless its hers. As I originally stated, I don't believe Abrams has the balls.. but that's the story.. that's the structure. If you can't put your hero through the ringer just gtfo. She'll ultimately be a milktoast piece of crap nobody will ever get behind. She has to be brought low or you're just softballing this.

But I'm pretty sure you're well aware you just put forth a ridiculous expectation that has little chance of happening. You continue to play into my suspicions that you are a troll.

In your world, a troll is simply someone saying stuff you don't want to hear.

I have suspicion that you're a troll, if you think things should end with sunshine and rainbows at the end of 9. Cause really, I don't want to hear that.. but have prepared myself in case they go that way :/.

As I said, I don't think Abrams would do that. But if he doesn't.. he has no hero. He just has a girl that did overpowered things and a trilogy with no soul.

Keep in mind, even Lucas couldn't do it straight up. There is a reason that he filmed 4-6 before ever doing 1-3. By knowing the ending, it dampens the effect greatly of going very dark in 3.

 

[rocco2216]

I’ve only read posts on this page but why is feminism suddenly considered a bad thing?

As a proud classical liberal I think I can clear this up some if you permit me.
When people criticize feminism today they're not criticizing the definition and idea of it but merely how feminists wrote and made these movies in a flawed manner. So in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi's case people and fans are not criticizing seeing a bad ass female Jedi, we've gotten that in other Star Wars canon and many loved it with no complaints, they're criticizing a bad ass female Jedi contradicting everything in canon that's come before it. They're criticizing the feminists involved with the film for what they feel is poor/weak/lazy writing. Some feminists embrace that without question and don't care about continuity and the boundaries/ground rules set or should be set in a fictional universe that's been around for 40+ years. For example, other feminists that I know and some online felt that it was lazy and anti-climactic for Rey to beat Kylo Ren at the end of the first film of her trilogy. Yes there were clear reasons why she did but from a storytelling perspective it's not as strong as it could have been. Imagine if you will that Luke beat Darth Vader before he beat Darth Vader, Batman beat Bane before he beat Bane, Rocky beat Clubber Lang before he beat Clubber Lang, Anakin beat Count Dooku before he beat Count Dooku, etc. I hope that made sense lol, just throwing in my two cents. Cheers.

 

[Last Skywalker]

For example, other feminists that I know and some online felt that it was lazy and anti-climactic for Rey to beat Kylo Ren at the end of the first film of her trilogy. Yes there were clear reasons why she did but from a storytelling perspective it's not as strong as it could have been. Imagine if you will that Luke beat Darth Vader before he beat Darth Vader, Batman beat Bane before he beat Bane, Rocky beat Clubber Lang before he beat Clubber Lang, Anakin beat Count Dooku before he beat Count Dooku, etc. I hope that made sense lol, just throwing in my two cents. Cheers.

Luke did beat Darth Vader before he beat Darth Vader, and blew up the Death Star. Batman had become Batman before he met Bane. Rocky had beaten Creed before he ran into Clubber Lang. Anakin had beaten Palpatine in Episode I before he ever ran into Dooku.

In all cases, the heroes did not start out weak. They came in strong and had their hubris tested, and ultimately had that strength stripped away. In stripping away that strength, you get a contrast and can see the hero they really are... which in Anakin's case wasn't really a hero at all, but ultimately brought back to the light by his son.

Rey has never had that, which isn't a problem IF she gets that. And in doing so, you'll likely traumatize the audience. But its not something they deserve, but something they need. Strip her character down, break her down to the rivets, and then overcome the adversity to become the hero they want... a hero that finds the strength inside herself to overcome, and not as a result of some all-powerful Force Ability, but as a result of Who She Is, which at the end of the day... being Star Wars... IS as a god damned Skywalker. Ultimately... The Last Skywalker.

The Hero has a Thousand Faces, but you get marks(and bless their hearts, they pay the bills) that STILL only want to see her win, but need to see her lose, and lose badly. If she doesn't, she can't become what she needs to become... what they want her to become. The moral of the story being... if this girl... who had everything.. and then lost everything, found the will and ability to overcome her adversity without that great strength... then it implies that the audience can too and she becomes a symbol of hope for those who have lost everything. And the more it hurts, the greater the hero. If it didn't hurt, if you didn't care, the story would mean nothing no matter what they did.

Otherwise.. She's just fan fiction. And while it may be great to want that, I hope we never, ever get that. It would be such a waste of a potentially great character.

 

[BatLobster]

Dark started out weak in 7, came even with light in 8, and should win out to end 9.

If you aren't following that X motif, you don't know much about Star Wars.

Nope, very nice try though.

The whole thing with 7 was that it DIDN'T repeat Episode I. It wasn't really about the fall of the Republic. The First Order is on the rise and has the worst superweapon we've ever seen from the very start. So no, it's not really following the same arc of the prequels. It's more of a hybrid thing that has aspects of both trilogies. Especially with the main villain who basically is an already-fallen Anakin 2.0.

Also, what you're proposing is just a never-ending loop. 3 episodes where dark rises, 3 episodes where light overcomes, rinse/repeat forever.

My counter-argument to you is that the sequel trilogy should be the conclusion to the saga. A trilogy of trilogies. One about the fall from grace, one about the hero's journey, the last one about finding balance, breaking cycles and achieving true peace.

You can disagree with that and not be be a troll. However, if you want to seriously make the claim that there's no way this story can wrap up satisfactorily without setting up 3 more movies then I find that to be a highly suspicious argument that seems to be just be saying something fairly outrageous and improbable for the sake of it. And you're also arguing that the story should never move forward, just echo to the point of repetition over and over. Yeah, it's not that I don't buy your argument (I could entertain the idea of it being a 12 part series if someone made the argument well), it's that I don't really buy the seriousness of your argument.

 

[Last Skywalker]

Nope, very nice try though.

The whole thing with 7 was that it DIDN'T repeat Episode I. It wasn't really about the fall of the Republic. The First Order is on the rise and has the worst superweapon we've ever seen from the very start. So no, it's not really following the same arc of the prequels. It's more of a hybrid thing that has aspects of both trilogies. Especially with the main villain who basically is an already-fallen Anakin 2.0.

I didn't say it was the same arc. I said the power structure flips diametrically with each trilogy. Dark/Light/Dark/Light being the winners and Light/Dark/Light/Dark being the losers each trilogy.

Ren is shown to be incredibly weak to start the trilogy, and the same with the TFO.. getting their biggest base destroyed by the Resistance and Ren being beaten by a girl. That should flip by the end of the ST, with Ren being the unparalleled force in the galaxy, and Rey and Friends on the run.

That then sets the stakes for the final trilogy and provides a seemingly unassailable foe to topple, all while SuperRey is now no more and must do it without the majority of that power. But its in having that power stripped away, that she'll learn what she needs to do to really win. Its an archetype, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Or if you think you can do better with different, go make those movies and don't call them Star Wars.

Also, what you're proposing is just a never-ending loop. 3 episodes where dark rises, 3 episodes where light overcomes, rinse/repeat forever.

Which is why I advocate for her being The Last Skywalker. Its also why they need The Emperor in some form. He's the common thread that runs the series and plays the catalyst(honestly, a Macguffin) that creates the strife within the family(with galactic-level consequences) that is ultimately overcome. When he dies for good, the Episodic Saga comes to an end. Its already getting played out, give it the end @12 and call it good. 6 episodes Lucas, 6 Disney. No more, no less.

Transition to other Star Wars Movies that don't depend on Episode numbers. You can even have followup movies to post-Saga that deal with Rey in later years, idc. Or simply give the series a good rest for a while. But ffs End The Saga before they end up completely destroying it.

My counter-argument to you is that the sequel trilogy should be the conclusion to the saga. A trilogy of trilogies. One about the fall from grace, one about the hero's journey, the last one about finding balance, breaking cycles and achieving true peace.

And I could counter that with 12 episodes, two sets of 6. The first about how a hero who got obsessed with family ultimately lost his way only to be saved by his son, and the second how his daughter lost her way only to overcome her adversity to become that hero her father never could and ultimately give the entire family and story a happy ending.

Plenty of ways to slice the bread, depending on how you look at things.

You can disagree with that and not be be a troll. However, if you want to seriously make the claim that there's no way this story can wrap up satisfactorily without setting up 3 more movies then I find that to be a highly suspicious argument that seems to be just be saying something fairly outrageous and improbable for the sake of it.

I speak from my own opinion, and it certainly wouldn't be satisfactory to me. I have no need to see Rey become a pregnancy vessel to carry on the Skywalker line as she and Ren live happily ever after putting out babies with everything in Balance.

And you're also arguing that the story should never move forward, just echo to the point of repetition over and over.

Nope... Saga would end with true balance brought to The Force(with the mass majority of all Force ability gone for good). The main reason you get a lot of that out of Rey is so it can go away. What is throwing the Force out of Balance, is the people like The Emperor who have so much of it that they can literally create Wars amongst the Stars, killing billions of people with it. When that stuff goes away, the Balance(i.e. all people being very weak with The Force) finally returns.

Now you know why in this galaxy, we can't do stuff like telekinesis like they could in a galaxy far, far away.

Yeah, it's not that I don't buy your argument (I could entertain the idea of it being a 12 part series if someone made the argument well), it's that I don't really buy the seriousness of your argument.

Oh... i'm as serious as a heart attack.

You may have your head canon, but I also have mine. I'm not ********ting you here trying to put forth something I don't believe in just to get you riled up.

 

[BatLobster]

That's all good and well, but end of the day I'm still going with your posting and argument style still rings wayyyy too familiar for a noob with 70 posts.

 

[Last Skywalker]

That's all good and well, but end of the day I'm still going with your posting and argument style still rings wayyyy too familiar for a noob with 70 posts.

#shrug.

 

[rocco2216]

Luke did beat Darth Vader before he beat Darth Vader, and blew up the Death Star. Batman had become Batman before he met Bane. Rocky had beaten Creed before he ran into Clubber Lang. Anakin had beaten Palpatine in Episode I before he ever ran into Dooku.

In all cases, the heroes did not start out weak. They came in strong and had their hubris tested, and ultimately had that strength stripped away. In stripping away that strength, you get a contrast and can see the hero they really are... which in Anakin's case wasn't really a hero at all, but ultimately brought back to the light by his son.

Rey has never had that, which isn't a problem IF she gets that. And in doing so, you'll likely traumatize the audience. But its not something they deserve, but something they need. Strip her character down, break her down to the rivets, and then overcome the adversity to become the hero they want... a hero that finds the strength inside herself to overcome, and not as a result of some all-powerful Force Ability, but as a result of Who She Is, which at the end of the day... being Star Wars... IS as a god damned Skywalker. Ultimately... The Last Skywalker.

The Hero has a Thousand Faces, but you get marks(and bless their hearts, they pay the bills) that STILL only want to see her win, but need to see her lose, and lose badly. If she doesn't, she can't become what she needs to become... what they want her to become. The moral of the story being... if this girl... who had everything.. and then lost everything, found the will and ability to overcome her adversity without that great strength... then it implies that the audience can too and she becomes a symbol of hope for those who have lost everything. And the more it hurts, the greater the hero. If it didn't hurt, if you didn't care, the story would mean nothing no matter what they did.

Otherwise.. She's just fan fiction. And while it may be great to want that, I hope we never, ever get that. It would be such a waste of a potentially great character.

Yes I know Rey never really had what those other heroes had. That's why people complained about the "feminism" in the The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Yes Batman, Anakin, Luke, and Rocky came in strong by the end of their first movie and beat the villain, or some villain, in some way. They had successes and were brought down later on only to be brought back up after that. My point was that Batman did not beat up Bane twice, Anakin did not beat up Count Dooku twice, Luke did not beat up Darth Vader twice, and Rocky did not beat up Clubber Lang twice. However Rey's success of beating the bad guy was that she physically beat Kylo Ren at the end of her first movie. Was she really brought down by the end of The Last Jedi? I brought up the Rey fighting Kylo Ren fight because that's one problem and example many people had with what the feminists involved with the movie did. They criticize the decision for being done in the name of "feminism." I'm going to assume Rey is going to fight Kylo Ren again in Episode 9 and win again. Maybe Abrams will surprise us and do something different and unexpected, but I doubt it lol. Is it more exciting for her to win both physical fights with the main villain, or is it more exciting for her to lose the first fight yet win the second fight? Yes one could argue that Rocky beat Apollo twice but Rocky only went the distance with Apollo in the first fight, he didn't beat him. Nothing beat that feeling of seeing those heroes triumph over the same villain, they fought twice each, and actually win this time.

 

[Last Skywalker]

Yes I know Rey never really had what those other heroes had. That's why people complained about the "feminism" in the The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Yes Batman, Anakin, Luke, and Rocky came in strong by the end of their first movie and beat the villain, or some villain, in some way. They had successes and were brought down later on only to be brought back up after that. My point was that Batman did not beat up Bane twice, Anakin did not beat up Count Dooku twice, Luke did not beat up Darth Vader twice, and Rocky did not beat up Clubber Lang twice. However Rey's success of beating the bad guy was that she physically beat Kylo Ren at the end of her first movie. Was she really brought down by the end of The Last Jedi? I brought up the Rey fighting Kylo Ren fight because that's one problem and example many people had with what the feminists involved with the movie did. They criticize the decision for being done in the name of "feminism." I'm going to assume Rey is going to fight Kylo Ren again in Episode 9 and win again. Maybe Abrams will surprise us and do something different and unexpected, but I doubt it lol. Is it more exciting for her to win both physical fights with the main villain, or is it more exciting for her to lose the first fight yet win the second fight? Yes one could argue that Rocky beat Apollo twice but Rocky only went the distance with Apollo in the first fight, he didn't beat him. Nothing beat that feeling of seeing those heroes triumph over the same villain, they fought twice each, and actually win this time.

I could see the important aspect to that being not that she beat him the second time around.. but that she had a chance to kill him.. but didn't. Then when things fall apart, part of it is her fault for not having taken care of it when she could.

You have to remember, if done properly... it isn't Ben Solo that is the problem. He isn't meant to be her Creed or Bane, so to say. But he sure as hell isn't her Prince Charming or Phantom either :/.

 

[rocco2216]

I could see the important aspect to that being not that she beat him the second time around.. but that she had a chance to kill him.. but didn't. Then when things fall apart, part of it is her fault for not having taken care of it when she could.

You have to remember, if done properly... it isn't Ben Solo that is the problem. He isn't meant to be her Creed or Bane, so to say. But he sure as hell isn't her Prince Charming or Phantom either :/.

Yeah I guess except she kind of already had that moment before the ground split in half. I don't know I just think it's storytelling 101. If the main physical villain isn't really much of a threat to the main hero then it's just not as compelling either way. The better decision would have been Kylo Ren winning or it being a draw. So then what is Kylo Ren? Perhaps they dropped the ball? LOL. It just seems like bad decision making and storytelling to me but we'll see what Abrams does in Episode 9.

 

[Last Skywalker]

Yeah I guess except she kind of already had that moment before the ground split in half. I don't know I just think it's storytelling 101. If the main physical villain isn't really much of a threat to the main hero then it's just not as compelling either way.

But then.. 9 should be just as much about 'Kylo Ren' finally becoming the main villain as it is her getting her teeth kicked in to get put through the ringer.

The better decision would have been Kylo Ren winning or it being a draw.

Nah.. she should be shown to be better than Ben Solo.

So then what is Kylo Ren?

Ideally, he becomes 'something else' at the end of 9. Body of Ben Solo, but not the mind at the controls. That can be Snoke in his big comeback, or more preferably, #surprise it was The Emperor all along(including as Snoke).

And when it happens, he should lay her out like a day old ham.

One of the other key motifs in Star Wars is characters that transition trilogies tend to undergo transformation to give the trilogies definition and form.

Both Rey and Ben/Ren should be markedly different post-9 in say ST2, or you aren't cooking with gas.

LOL. It just seems like bad decision making and storytelling to me but we'll see what Abrams does in Episode 9.

True that. Who knows... maybe they go with that Balance stuff that was mentioned higher in the thread in a Trilogy of Trilogies and Rey and Ben hookup and she has his Force babies. At least you're guaranteed it would make shippers happy.

 

[rocco2216]

But then.. 9 should be just as much about 'Kylo Ren' finally becoming the main villain as it is her getting her teeth kicked in to get put through the ringer.



Nah.. she should be shown to be better than Ben Solo.



Ideally, he becomes 'something else' at the end of 9. Body of Ben Solo, but not the mind at the controls. That can be Snoke in his big comeback, or more preferably, #surprise it was The Emperor all along(including as Snoke).

And when it happens, he should lay her out like a day old ham.

One of the other key motifs in Star Wars is characters that transition trilogies tend to undergo transformation to give the trilogies definition and form.

Both Rey and Ben/Ren should be markedly different post-9 in say ST2, or you aren't cooking with gas.



True that. Who knows... maybe they go with that Balance stuff that was mentioned higher in the thread in a Trilogy of Trilogies and Rey and Ben hookup and she has his Force babies. At least you're guaranteed it would make shippers happy.

She should be better than Ben Solo you're right...by the end of Episode 9 ultimately lol. She shouldn't be better than him at Jedi/lightsaber fighting at the end of her first movie. Then again if they end Episode 9 on a dark note like you suggested and Kylo Ren beats Rey that'd be something different. It'd be them reversing the situation I guess I don't know lol.