Ms. Marvel Season 1, Episode 1: Generation Why (Spoiler Thread)

[TheWiseGuy487]

So quick thing about Iman. What I really like about her performance is, though she certainly gives Kamala the spunk we expect, she does so in this very understated manner, which I honestly didn't expect. I'm very curious about Iman's audition because I feel like Kamala on the page, and how a casting director would describe the character, that most actors especially around Iman's age would really feel like they need to project. This almost quiet sass that Kamala has here very much feels like a quality that Iman brought to it. I don't know. I quite frankly love it, and I'm not gonna lie, I had some cynical thoughts about her casting but I'm glad to say I was very wrong.

“Quiet sass”, that’s a good term to describe that. I think that’s one of the reasons why I like her character so much, because I’ve had moments like that where I’ve spoken sarcastically under my breath to comments my mom has made in the past. I think Iman and I would probably get along really well in a real life conversation, with her love of the MCU and all that.

I guess a small part of me is a teenage girl at heart.

 

[Iceman]

I definitely get the MCU Spider-Man vibes with the art, but that seems to be a thing they love to do with all their young characters. Kate even had her "art".

MCU school art classes must be a blast with this much talent and all the youngsters into it.

 

[Another_Fool]

Now that we've finally seen what Ms Marvel is like the potential for The Marvels just went shooting up even higher. I really can't wait till this lot all meet for the first time.

I am right there with you. Once we saw Monica Rambeau in Wandavision my anticipation went up for what was at the time Captain Marvel 2. Now it's through the roof.

 

[Iceman]

I am right there with you. Once we saw Monica Rambeau in Wandavision my anticipation went up for what was at the time Captain Marvel 2. Now it's through the roof.

I can already see it in my head, I think their personalities will gel well. They're going to throw in a good bit of comedy too when Kamala meets Carol I imagine.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I can already see it in my head, I think their personalities will gel well. They're going to throw in a good bit of comedy too when Kamala meets Carol I imagine.

She going to tell her she doesn't like her movie?

 

[Dr. Evil]

My one main issue with Captain Marvel was the lack of personality with Carol Danvers. I thought she slightly better in the two Avengers movies. She needs a Ragnarok.

See Hollywood? This is what happens when you actually portray Islam in a positive light, you get someone like me hooked from day one instead of rolling my eyes and turning the channel. I know this isn't going to be the norm in Hollywood though as I suspect that all of the cop/federal agent TV shows will have an episode where the suspects have ties to a local mosque or ties to terror groups in the Middle East. I understand that, I just won't watch those episodes of those shows. One show I regularly watch is FBI, which has a Muslim agent who is an all around good guy and not some "guy who pretends to be good but is actually a terrorist from an Islamic terror cell asked to infiltrate the FBI" that we see sometimes. Sure that show does have the usual "he came from a terrorist cell in the Middle East" trope, but they tread lightly with that due to one of the agents being a Muslim.

 

[Another_Fool]

I can already see it in my head, I think their personalities will gel well. They're going to throw in a good bit of comedy too when Kamala meets Carol I imagine.

It's gonna be great. I think the chemistry is going to be infectious.

In the bubble. She's very popular in the role. Her flick had 2.7x legs at the domestic box office, which is high end for the MCU. Overall it made 4m less then Far From Home (CM won the domestic battle by 35m). People liked it and her.

You say you aren't counting the bad faith, but outside of that, there isn't much to argue she isn't popular in the role. Individual opinions are one thing, but don't come close to making up the majority. Which like her as Carol and in general.

I actually love these points but we're not discussing if Captain Marvel is a failure. It is not. On a financial level it's a triumph. I'm not saying people can't love her portrayal. If they did, absolutely more power to them. The good faith folk I've listened to either loved Brie as Carol or shared the frustration like me that Marvel Studios didn't optimize the fact that they have Brie Fricking Larson playing in their sandbox. My frustration isn't that she sucked. She was fine imo. Her film was fine. I wanted Brie's portrayal or outing to soar. And when I say good faith folk, I'm talking legit allies in folks like Joanna Robinson, the Bald Move guys, John Rocha etc who felt Brie was let down in one way or another. No one with an objective mind thinks Brie sucked.

Here's a better way for me to paint the difference. The same good faith folk universally praised Teyonah and now Iman (admittedly still a few more episodes to go) in the role with no ifs, buts or frustrations thus far. I wanted that for Brie and I'm not alone in feeling that or expecting more from Marvel.

My one main issue with Captain Marvel was the lack of personality with Carol Danvers. I thought she slightly better in the two Avengers movies. She needs a Ragnarok.

Last thing I'll say about this since I've already contributed to derailing the topic but in absolute fairness Marvel Studios was being faithful to Carol on the page. IMO she does have a personality both in comics and in her solo film but it's dry. Here's my deal though, which relates to your Ragnarok point. Did they make RDJ portray Tony like in the comics? Did they tell Hemsworth to suck it up when he wanted to turn Thor essentially into movie befitting of a Guardians of the Galaxy flick? Hell no. Even Iman has put a very small but unique spin into Kamala that I certainly never envisioned. This is Brie Larson. For example, Brie is a charming goofball in real life and they didn't slightly change the character to let that side of her shine.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I actually love these points but we're not discussing if Captain Marvel is a failure. It is not. On a financial level it's a triumph. I'm not saying people can't love her portrayal. If they did, absolutely more power to them. The good faith folk I've listened to either loved Brie as Carol or shared the frustration like me that Marvel Studios didn't optimize the fact that they have Brie Fricking Larson playing in their sandbox. My frustration isn't that she sucked. She was fine imo. Her film was fine. I wanted Brie's portrayal or outing to soar. And when I say good faith folk, I'm talking legit allies in folks like Joanna Robinson, the Bald Move guys, John Rocha etc who felt Brie was let down in one way or another. No one with an objective mind thinks Brie sucked.

Here's a better way for me to paint the difference. The same good faith folk universally praised Teyonah and now Iman (admittedly still a few more episodes to go) in the role with no ifs, buts or frustrations thus far. I wanted that for Brie and I'm not alone in feeling that or expecting more from Marvel.

You wrote:

I'm not 100% sure I'm following your comment, but The Marvels is not being written by the same people as Captain Marvel from my understanding. However if they write Carol the way they did in Captain Marvel that essentially pushes Brie to play the character in a way that doesn't fit what she can really bring to the role then it doesn't do her any favors. Megan McDonnell wrote Wandavision so Teyonah has already shown she fits her work. I'm just saying Teyonah and Iman thus far felt like very natural fits to their characters and the feedback has been more universally positive about them. Whereas the verdict on Brie as Carol has been less glowing. I'm not counting the mysoginistic bad faith critics of Brie.

Your personal frustration and what your anecdotal readings online is not a barometer to measure that. What I wrote is, and has been for years, a very good barometer about "universal" reaction. Because people pay for what they enjoy. That Captain Marvel had decent legs with Endgame Coming out less then two months after it's release shows, it was well liked. Brie's vast movement into public pitch woman with Captain Marvel is another good example of it.

Let's me give you an example. I'm good faith, I did not think the performance was great. Neither did my best friend or my brother. Does that suddenly shatter your argument of "universal" praise? Of course not.

This need to crap on Captain Marvel and Larson (yes this is what is happening) in random threads is tiring. It would at least make sense if the movie didn't do well, if it wasn't popular. But the gaslighting about it, not dissimilar to the gaslighting in the film, turns threads into a bore.

 

[Another_Fool]

Let's me give you an example. I'm good faith, I did not think the performance was great. Neither did my best friend or my brother. Does that suddenly shatter your argument of "universal" praise? Of course not.

Are you speaking of Iman or Brie here?

This need to crap on Captain Marvel and Larson (yes this is what is happening) in random threads is tiring.

I think it's absolutely fair for you to feel tired about that topic. It has been discussed for years so I understand that.

I'm not sure if you're referring to me on the crapping on Larson but are you?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Are you speaking of Iman or Brie here?

Iman. Brie was terrific imo. But it's one episode, will see where it goes.

 

[Another_Fool]

Iman. Brie was terrific imo. But it's one episode, will see where it goes.

Gotcha. Well I don't like Ragnarok at all. Quite dislike it actually but I see that as a universally beloved film.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

That was pretty cute. Still don't like the power change, but oh well... I think they even had what looked like a comic accurate growing arm in the end credits.

I think I saw a cockatiel drawing in the intro, and Kamala and Bruno were on the roof of Edison Electrics. The Inventor better show up at least in a season 2 if not this season.

So is the idea that no one has ever put that bracelet on, or that someone decided to put something that powerful in a box and never mention it to anyone...

I think the implication is that her grandmother definitely used it in the past, with how much focus they put on the comparisons between Kamala and her. Kamala's mom definitely seemed to at least have some idea that something was up with it.

I believe in the comics Kamala's bangle from her grandmother was something that the grandmother had used to help people during the 1947 Partition of India, so they'll probably expand it to her grandmother actually having used the abilities it has in this show to help save people back then.

 

[Another_Fool]

My only other complaint so far is that it has what I like to call Teens-Written-By-Adults Syndrome - typified by one Dawn Summers in Buffy S5. Kamala's a character in her mid-teens who is written like a pre-teen because the adults writing her can't tell the difference.

Haha that's interesting because I thought of the same "syndrome" but from the opposite angle. Particularly as a family of color assimilating/living in the US, I thought she was a too quick-witted for a person her age. Kinda reminded me of Juno, that Elliott Page movie.

 

[Kane52630]

I don't think the Teens-Written-By-Adults Syndrome applies here, but that's just me.

 

[Sithborg]

This was very enjoyable. The characters are great. And the visual style of the show is great. Nice to have a Marvel product with style. The text conversation felt very much along the lines of Edgar Wright.

I mean, the power change is a big detriment. And some of the implications of it being a familial thing really doesn't sit well with me. And the stepping stones will always piss me off over gangly legs.

And I'm not really a big fan of some of the other changes to the origin. I do like that Zoe was a secret fangirl of Carol, and we got some of the "un-PC costumes" from the comic. But, the save felt like it had less impact. She wasn't saved after she was a ***** to Kamala. She was saved after she tried to be friendly to her, even if she didn't know it was Kamala. Plus, I fear the fan girl stuff is going to be her big secret, and not ever going to touch her comic story.

Kamala saving her after causing the problem that threatened her is a change that feels very much like the Uncle Ben problem MCU Spider-man had. In that it changes a lot of her motivations.

Holy smokes, Marvel Studios has to step up their game in how they're writing for Carol Danvers in the MCU, because Teyonah Parris and Iman Vellani are going to run laps around an Oscar winning woman in Brie.

I have so many thoughts that I want to share in another post, but what a big first step that was in the premiere, and I'm not only relieved but I'm very happy guys.

Luckily, the Russos are out, so we can get the Carol we enjoyed in Capt Marvel.

 

[Another_Fool]

I don't think the Teens-Written-By-Adults Syndrome applies here, but that's just me.

That makes sense. Though I see the syndrome, I don't think it's egregious either. I think it's a minor form of it.

Well I was pleasantly surprised by this. For the record, I still don't approve of the changes to her origin/power-set. That was the worst part for me. It just...sucks.

This is kind of why it grinds my gears they didn't do Ms. Marvel as a film. I worried they wouldn't or couldn't do her power-set justice in a TV medium and here we are. I suppose I buy that they wanted to keep her powers "in-line" with Rambeau and Carol, but I don't know. I can't shake the feeling the overriding factor was budget. But perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Sithborg]

That makes sense. Though I see the syndrome, I don't think it's egregious either. I think it's a minor form of it.



This is kind of why it grinds my gears they didn't do Ms. Marvel as a film. I worried they wouldn't or couldn't do her power-set justice in a TV medium and here we are. I suppose I buy that they wanted to keep her powers "in-line" with Rambeau and Carol, but I don't know. I can't shake the feeling the overriding factor was budget. But perhaps I'm wrong.

Just based on this episode, it is clear they were planning on the energy powers from the start.

 

[Another_Fool]

Luckily, the Russos are out, so we can get the Carol we enjoyed in Capt Marvel.

Lol more power to you then. I didn't think the Russos capitalized on Brie either but I didn't notice a drastic change in her depiction. I did think something felt different about her in Shang-Chi that I liked but it was so short I wasnt sure that was a qualified take.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Holy ****, Tyrone Magnus liked it!

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Oh yeah, one more thing I was wondering again once more is how much the general population knows about the wider MCU. I guess Kamala apparently knows stuff about what Carol did at the battle at the Avengers compound from Scott Lang's podcast or something, so that could also have been Jimmy Woo's source. But is there footage of that battle? There were some very accurate and dedicated cosplays of people like Drax, Gamora and Mantis. Did Rocket release their pictures to the public or something? How do people know them and why do they care enough about them to cosplay them? Wonder how that will impact them while presumably visiting Earth in the holiday special.

Sometimes it feels like MCU civillians all watched the MCU movies along with us. I miss when the WHIH viral marketing had the public question what Vision was and where he came from.

 

[Sithborg]

Holy ****, Tyrone Magnus liked it!

And we should care why a misogynist likes it because?????

 

[Holy Slapper]

And we should care why a misogynist likes it because?????

Oh he had to slip in a rant about woke/SJW/whatever but much to my surprise he seemed to have liked it quite a bit. Shocking.

 

[Iceman]

Oh yeah, one more thing I was wondering again once more is how much the general population knows about the wider MCU. I guess Kamala apparently knows stuff about what Carol did at the battle at the Avengers compound from Scott Lang's podcast or something, so that could also have been Jimmy Woo's source. But is there footage of that battle? There were some very accurate and dedicated cosplays of people like Drax, Gamora and Mantis. Did Rocket release their pictures to the public or something? How do people know them and why do they care enough about them to cosplay them? Wonder how that will impact them while presumably visiting Earth in the holiday special.

Sometimes it feels like MCU civillians all watched the MCU movies along with us. I miss when the WHIH viral marketing had the public question what Vision was and where he came from.

With things like YouTube it only takes one person around the world to get footage of these heroes, and when they are fighting they aren’t worrying about who is using a phone to video them. I would imagine from battles set in populated areas for there to be plenty of footage. Obviously nothing for a battle on Titan though lol.

 

[Another_Fool]

Oh he had to slip in a rant about woke/SJW/whatever but much to my surprise he seemed to have liked it quite a bit. Shocking.

Which begs the question when did Tyrone Magnus become a grifter? Am I crazy but I vaguely recall he cared about diversity/representation etc or rather it didn't bother him at all. He didn't make it a big thing as he simply stuck to reacting only back then but somewhere after he began more content I noticed him saying grifter buzzwords and talking points.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I like how Zoe went from Kamala's rival in high school (the usual teenage trope) to like friends all in one episode. That usually doesn't happen at all. I love it when the usual teenage tropes are subverted and turned around.