Season 5 Episode 8 Discussion "Hardhome"

[Avenger]

That was such a fantastic episode. Jon's by far my favorite character, as he is in the books, and I've long argued that the return of the Others and the Long Night is the real story, with the fight over the Iron Throne just being a distraction. (Which is why I've always hated that they named the show "Game of Thrones." It's catchy, but the story's bigger than that.)

Anyway, I'm really glad they finally put the White Walkers front and center and showed us the true threat they pose. I was incredibly pumped when Jon discovered that Longclaw could withstand that Walker's spear. I'd actually completely forgotten about the dragonsteel conversation he and Sam had had in the books, so that was a pleasant surprise. Now that Jon knows how vital Valyrian steel truly is, I think something like this might possibly happen next season...

Spoiler

I can see Jon sending Samwell to the Citadel in Oldtown to study Valyrian steel and try to rediscover how to forge it. Westeros is going to need as much Valyrian steel as it can possibly acquire. Of course, we know that dragonfire is involved in the forging of Valyrian steel, so hopefully that will be how Daenerys' storyline finally connects to the one in Westeros.

 

[rashad]

The final shots of the episode between Jon and the Night's King were so damn foreboding, creepy and ominous. Especially when they cut music it felt like you were in that moment.

 

[KevanG]

**** YEAH WUNWUN!

I love that guy in the books and him showing up and doing that in the show was awesome! I honestly thought they were going to have him go down in a heroic sacrifice though. So happy he didn't.

 

[rashad]

Watching the live reactions on Youtube were so good!!

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

Watching the live reactions on Youtube were so good!!

lol. i love doing this too. there's this user named sean L who used to post reactions from showings at this bar, but sadly he hasn't done any this season.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

seriously? Jon just figured it out, but the rest of the lords of westeros, people who actually don't give a **** about the wall, or the night's watch, who think giants and dragons are nothing but children's stories, would know that information. right.

Ok, but how is Lightbringer a metaphor for knowledge?

that checov's gun (1 the one of many) he mentioned was about a pack of wolves. stop reaching.

It's the same rationale. I'm not reaching. We've seen a flaming sword with Beric which was a trick, Stannis' flaming sword (which was just a ceremony in the show but likely glamour magic in the books). It fits in the traditional "rule of 3's" that the real Lightbringer will appear, whether it's a sword, a person, or dragon.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

Ok, but how is Lightbringer a metaphor for knowledge?


It's the same rationale. I'm not reaching. We've seen a flaming sword with Beric which was a trick, Stannis' flaming sword (which was just a ceremony in the show but likely glamour magic in the books). It fits in the traditional "rule of 3's" that the real Lightbringer will appear, whether it's a sword, a person, or dragon.

grrm has been inspired by numerous mythologies in the making of this story.

when something is brought to light, is it revealed. Jon is the bringer of the light.

in Christianity, Lucifer (which means light-bringing) brought knowledge to man by coxing them to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge. Prometheus (which means forethought) brought fire to man. both are metaphors for knowledge. like those myths, the myths in asoiaf shouldn't be taken literally, but allegorically.

 

[Greens]

lol. i love doing this too. there's this user named sean L who used to post reactions from showings at this bar, but sadly he hasn't done any this season.

HBO recently brought the hammer down on bar screenings of GoT, so that's probably why he's laying low right now. I loved those videos.

 

[Manowar]

I couldn't make out what the Giant said to Jon in this episode during the clan meeting. Can someone please post it here.

 

[Roose Bolton]

He said "Tormund"

 

[P Supreme]

The Giants was really great he got him some !

 

[KDM1986]

All aboard the white walker hype train!

 

[Manowar]

He said "Tormund"

LOL at first i though he said "Door-man" when he looked at Jon. I was like WTF... cause maybe Jon was at the Wall tunnel door before the other giants died? and then i thought that cant be right... LOL

Thanks!

 

[Kane52630]

 

[rashad]

That shot was cool as hell.

 

[squeekness]

I just want to know how you fit a giant on one of those ships. Or did he walk in the water all the way to Eastwatch?

 

[Brother Jack]

I just want to know how you fit a giant on one of those ships. Or did he walk in the water all the way to Eastwatch?

I guess he did. The preview for next episode showed him with Jon and the other survivors back at the wall.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

So the Dragons (if they get to Westeros) could just fly around and kill all of the Wights, right? So then that just leaves the White Walkers to combat against dragonglass and valyrian steel.

Hang on, regular fire can't kill White Walkers, but can Dragonfire kill them? I mean Obsidian and Valyrian steel are both forged of Dragonfire, right?

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Also Dragonstone is packed with Dragonglass isn't it? I guess they do actually stand a chance haha

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

About the Night King : I read his back story and it is said he was defeated/taken down by Men and Free Folks a long time ago, I understood he was killed but it is clearly not the case. Are the books more clear on the subject ? Was the Night King just pushed back behind The Wall and not defeated ?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Everything to do with him is vague because once the Watch found out he had been making human sacrifices they destroyed all record of him. All that's known is that he was defeated and presumed dead. The Histories and Lore on the show go a little bit further by stating that they managed to kill his White Walker bride, but even then they didn't go into the specifics. He's been gone for a thousand years, and in the books he's just a scary story that the children of the North are told, along with the Rat Cook.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Thanks.
Defeated but fate unknown, fine for me.

Edit : I have no idea who is the Rat Cook.

 

[Schlosser85]

In the books one of the legends about the Night King is that he was a Stark.

 

[godisawesome]

The Night's King being defeated but not confirmed in his death would actually explain even more how the Night's Watch became the aged institution it is; they'd probably get even more paranoid about defending the Wall against any and all encroachment. Joramun, the King Beyond the Wall during the Night's King's first reign of terror, only has the alliance with the North: there's no mythos or tales of his own invasions of the North. Chances are we're supposed to see the Night's King's first appearance as being the soldifying factor for everything we know of the watch, for better or worse, like the rules on chastity, the ranging, the entire mindset of "civilized North" and "barbarous Beyond the Wall." What was a defensive bulwark becomes a defacto border.

And does anybody else think they've intentionally given the Night's King more human features to kind of echo his own history as an ex-Stark? His cheekbones are less defined, his eyes are a but less sunken, he has no hair, and he overall looks more like a bald human as opposed to the Neanderthal-like regular Walkers.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think they just wanted different designs, and went with the one that looked most "kingly".