Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 33

[Boom]

Amanda Waller must enjoy working with people who are complete imbeciles.

Amanda Waller: *Lying* "In order to combat the next Superman, we need this boomerang guy and this crazy clown girl with a baseball bat. They are key to defeating metahuman threats."
Military Stooge: "Sounds legit!"

Even if she was embellishing, her proposal should've gotten her laughed right out of the room. Who'd honestly believe this?

 

[JtheDreamer]

Amanda Waller must enjoy working with people who are complete imbeciles.

Amanda Waller: *Lying* "In order to combat the next Superman, we need this boomerang guy and this crazy clown girl with a baseball bat. They are key to defeating metahuman threats."
Military Stooge: "Sounds legit!"

Even if she was embellishing, her proposal should've gotten her laughed right out of the room. Who'd honestly believe this?

Well it was Enchantress who got them to believe when she stole those military documents from Iran. But her ability didn't lend any credence to the others' value to the team.

Actually come to think of it, even the abilities the Enchantress showed and ones that were explained didn't lend to the idea of her being useful against Meta's either.

 

[kguillou]

This basically should have been Oceans 11 but with supervillains. A big heist/infiltration movie where each character presents a particular skillset to the table in order to pull off the "heist."

 

[FunkMiller]

Amanda Waller must enjoy working with people who are complete imbeciles.

Amanda Waller: *Lying* "In order to combat the next Superman, we need this boomerang guy and this crazy clown girl with a baseball bat. They are key to defeating metahuman threats."
Military Stooge: "Sounds legit!"

Even if she was embellishing, her proposal should've gotten her laughed right out of the room. Who'd honestly believe this?

The thing is, this perfectly reasonable criticism can be levelled at the comic book too.

 

[Raiden]

This basically should have been Oceans 11 but with supervillains. A big heist/infiltration movie where each character presents a particular skillset to the table in order to pull off the "heist."

Ant-Man already did the heist thing in his movie.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Ant-Man already did the heist thing in his movie.

So?

DC can do their own heist-themed CBM.

 

[gdw]

I think people are not grasping the fact Waller really was selling Enchantress as the one to stop world threats. Once she lost her...everything went to hell and it was about saving her/protecting her name. They'll deal with the threat later as they are trying to figure out what to do. They didn't know Enchantress plan was to destroy their defense system/zones. That happened concurrently when the squad showed up to fight them.

It...eh.. never mind. Not trying to have another long BvS debate.

I realize this, my point is it should have been part of the movie. There should have been some attempt made to address the big ass threat DURING the movie, not just thrown on at the end just so that the bad guys can have a "redemption" moment.
Would have been pretty easy to address too.
It's just bad writing.

 

[Rincewind]

I saw it and I didn't like it. I wanted to, I deliberately stayed away from spoilers and reviews cause I wanted to form my own opinion.

The cast was mostly ok. Much like Ben Aflek's Batman, I actually like this version of the Joker and Harley... I just feel like they'd be much better with a good script. Will Smith was too heroic as Deadshot, even though I did like some of his moments, like [BLACKOUT]when the Enchantress was trying to subvert the Squad and she showed them visions of peace and love - even Harley saw a freaking white-picket-fence-family with the Joker - but all Deadshot saw was him succeeding in killing Batman, instead of something sugary and family-like with his daughter, and that was a nice bit of characterization[/BLACKOUT]. Boomerang was funny, Croc and Katana were just there, and Diablo was great up until [BLACKOUT]he claimed that the Squad was a family to him - that made no sense, they literally spent something like few hours with each other, that didn't feel earned at all, just there because it was the "correct" line for that situation. Also, his powers at the end had no explanation whatsoever, he just randomly turns into a monster and dies.[/BLACKOUT]

The bad guys seemed nonsensical and the whole machine-that-will-destroy-the-world thing felt as if it was totally uninspired and out of the blue. Waller was portrayed relatively well, and the film very much wants you to hate her - which you do, to a degree - but the whole thing with her felt almost... how to explain... as if it was a plot that someone starts thinking of and considering, you know, having a basic idea of where the twists are, what the characterization and the motivations are etc. - but before the whole thing can be developed and finished, somehow it finds itself being filmed, so it felt rough, not thought through, and didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I don't know... I really, really wanted to like Suicide Squad, but it's just not a great film. The characters don't have anything impressive in terms of arcs, the plot seemed poorly conceived, the villains were uninspired and kinda random, and it feels like there was a TON of scenes cut.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

This reminds me of a panel in the New 52 about the new Justice League of America. For those that don't know, it's a U.S sanctioned superhero team. Anyways it served a double purpose in that all the members would be able to take on the actual JL in case they went rogue. This team was assembled by Steve Trevor and Amanda Waller.


Anyways the funny part is that the superhero who was meant to take out Wonder Woman in case she went rogue was Katana. Little out of Wonder Woman's class. Infact i think out of all of them the only real fair fight would be Superman and the Martian.

 

[gdw]

The most important point is to me not that the SS wasn't fit to combat a powerful meta human, it's that it's illogical that they would be sent even to get Waller instead of a special ops unit.

A trained team of soldiers should be more effective and doesn't contain members that constantly need to be babysat by their leader, drawing focus away from the mission. It's only because the plot demands it that trained soldiers are worse than a petite girl with a baseball bat.

The Suicide Squad should be sent on real suicide missions to do bad things.

Then she would have had to killed all of them too, like she did the others in the room with her. A lot more questions. Better to use a black ops, disposable team.

 

[reaperdakid]

Why tease Robin even a little im mad about that the most in these movies i need to know!!!!!

 

[BlueLanternKal]

This reminds me of a panel in the New 52 about the new Justice League of America. For those that don't know, it's a U.S sanctioned superhero team. Anyways it served a double purpose in that all the members would be able to take on the actual JL in case they went rogue. This team was assembled by Steve Trevor and Amanda Waller.


Anyways the funny part is that the superhero who was meant to take out Wonder Woman in case she went rogue was Katana. Little out of Wonder Woman's class. Infact i think out of all of them the only real fair fight would be Superman and the Martian.

This is pretty laughable. Catwoman, Katana (I still love you girl), and Stargirl are severely out matched.

But I'll play a little devil's advocate here. Vibe can manipulate the Speed Force so he can mess Barry up, Baz has done some miraculous things with his ring, while not quite on equal footing Hawkman can hang with Aquaman, and the Martian is a real problem.

 

[Loki882]

I think that Catwoman is there mostly because she's one of the few people that can throw Bruce off of his game and there's a least some level of confliction whenever she around as far as he's concerned.

 

[AnneFan]

Amanda Waller must enjoy working with people who are complete imbeciles.

Amanda Waller: *Lying* "In order to combat the next Superman, we need this boomerang guy and this crazy clown girl with a baseball bat. They are key to defeating metahuman threats."
Military Stooge: "Sounds legit!"

Even if she was embellishing, her proposal should've gotten her laughed right out of the room. Who'd honestly believe this?

Diablo and Enchantress are the only real meta humans they have at their disposal at that point in time. Deadshot isn't a superhuman, but I can see his value. The others just make up the numbers.

Why tease Robin even a little im mad about that the most in these movies i need to know!!!!!

It's something they'll use fully in the Batman solo, I think. We had the old vandalised suit in BvS, and the Robin mention in SS.

 

[Micromind]

Amanda Waller must enjoy working with people who are complete imbeciles.

Amanda Waller: *Lying* "In order to combat the next Superman, we need this boomerang guy and this crazy clown girl with a baseball bat. They are key to defeating metahuman threats."
Military Stooge: "Sounds legit!"

Even if she was embellishing, her proposal should've gotten her laughed right out of the room. Who'd honestly believe this?

She was assembling a team it was far from complete when the Enchantress trouble begun.

I don't think Waller was going to stop looking for other metas after recruiting "worst criminals", in the mid credits scene it was shown that she also has a file having details about other "meta humans".

 

[Mjölnir]

Then she would have had to killed all of them too, like she did the others in the room with her. A lot more questions. Better to use a black ops, disposable team.

Not really since there were soldiers sent in the movie, they just had to babysit the Squad as well. You'd expect Waller to want to send the people most likely to succeed when her life is at stake, and nothing but plot convenience has most of the Squad as very apt for it.

 

[jfurioso]

The most important point is to me not that the SS wasn't fit to combat a powerful meta human, it's that it's illogical that they would be sent even to get Waller instead of a special ops unit.

A trained team of soldiers should be more effective and doesn't contain members that constantly need to be babysat by their leader, drawing focus away from the mission. It's only because the plot demands it that trained soldiers are worse than a petite girl with a baseball bat.

The Suicide Squad should be sent on real suicide missions to do bad things.

A trained team of soldiers WAS sent on the mission. Several went alongside the squad and others went on a separate path. They got owned.
The squad was the team that succeeded. Waller thinks in redundant measures.

Also the Squad is there to take the blame for everything that can go wrong, too.

 

[Boom]

A trained team of soldiers WAS sent on the mission. Several went alongside the squad and others went on a separate path. They got owned.
The squad was the team that succeeded. Waller thinks in redundant measures.

Also the Squad is there to take the blame for everything that can go wrong, too.

You ever heard of the expression "plot armor?" The reason why the squad survived the helicopter crash, and the reason why they didn't get "owned," is because the plot necessitated it. It's the same reason why Enchantress was depicted as being this extremely powerful witch throughout the film, right up until the third act when she decides to fight the squad in hand-to-hand combat instead of vaporizing them on the spot. Things had to be dumbed down in order to prop the squad up. Not ideal storytelling.

No matter how you slice it, a highly-trained SEAL with an automatic rifle is not somehow less-efficient than a woman with a baseball bat, or a guy with boomerangs. Just because the squad managed to survive a wrecked helicopter and come across as more effective than a group of soldiers in the context of this film doesn't make it any less stupid.

 

[Pokkle]

No matter how you slice it, a highly-trained SEAL with an automatic rifle is not somehow less-efficient than a woman with a baseball bat, or a guy with boomerangs. Just because the squad managed to survive a wrecked helicopter and come across as more effective than a group of soldiers in the context of this film doesn't make it any less stupid.

In the movie, Harley/Boomerang/Slipknot/etc are stronger than the best soldier.
Deadshot was more efficient that the whole seal team by himself.

It's the same for Hawkeye, Black Widow or Batman in their movies.
With bows, guns or punch, they are better than foot soldiers and can fought army of robots, army of chitauri, etc

 

[JtheDreamer]

You ever heard of the expression "plot armor?" The reason why the squad survived the helicopter crash, and the reason why they didn't get "owned," is because the plot necessitated it. It's the same reason why Enchantress was depicted as being this extremely powerful witch throughout the film, right up until the third act when she decides to fight the squad in hand-to-hand combat instead of vaporizing them on the spot. Things had to be dumbed down in order to prop the squad up. Not ideal storytelling.

No matter how you slice it, a highly-trained SEAL with an automatic rifle is not somehow less-efficient than a woman with a baseball bat, or a guy with boomerangs. Just because the squad managed to survive a wrecked helicopter and come across as more effective than a group of soldiers in the context of this film doesn't make it any less stupid.

 

[JtheDreamer]

In the movie, Harley/Boomerang/Slipknot/etc are stronger than the best soldier.
Deadshot was more efficient that the whole seal team by himself.

It's the same for Hawkeye, Black Widow or Batman in their movies.
With bows, guns or punch, they are better than foot soldiers and can fought army of robots, army of chitauri, etc

Based on what? Neither Harley/Boomerang/Slipknot are meta. Trained Navy Seals would easily hold their own.

 

[Pokkle]

Based on what? Neither Harley/Boomerang/Slipknot are meta. Trained Navy Seals would easily hold their own.

It is said that Harley injuried 5 Belle Reve guards.
She was far superior to a normal guy and also showed her acrobatic skills in the movie when killing monster on her own.

Boomerang broke "all" the banks in Australia.

Batman with his training can beat a room of guys with gun with his punch, because it's a comicbook movie.

The same for these guys.

If the police could stop these guy, Batman wouldn't have a job.

 

[JtheDreamer]

It is said that Harley injuried 5 Belle Reve guards.
She was far superior to a normal guy and also showed her acrobatic skills in the movie when killing monster on her own.

Boomerang broke all the banks in Australia.

Batman with his training can beat a room of guys with gun with his punch, because it's a comicbook movie.

The same for these guys.

If the police could stop these guy, Batman wouldn't have a job.

Now you're changing the subject. It was "Navy Seals" not "police".

You also said they're all "stronger" than the Navy Seals and nothing you've described lends to that. Someone like Harley beat up on some two-bit Belle Reve security guards because that's what the story required. If you said she was more "acrobatic" then your argument might make more sense.

 

[Pokkle]

Now you're changing the subject. It was "Navy Seals" not "police".

You also said they're all "stronger" than the Navy Seals and nothing you've described lends to that. Someone like Harley beats up on some two-bit Belle Reve security guards because that's what the story requires. If you said she was more "acrobatic" then your argument might make more sense.

They were showed to be more efficient than them against the monsters during the movie.
Especially Deadshot in a scene.

We don't see Slipknot much but he (and Boomerang) one punch an Argus soldier when they arrived.

 

[Sleiek]

If I remember correctly, most of these bad guys are put in the cell by the League members not Navy Seals.