Supergirl Supergirl Season 2 Episode 16 - "Star-Crossed" MAJOR SPOILERS

[Robert_Anthony]

Well considering the fact that we know he is a part of Season 3, not sure he will be heading back to Daxam anytime soon, nor do I think he should. I have enjoyed his journey to hero story.

Kelly, well since Mon-El will be a part of S3, it looks like some major reconciliation may be about to take place.

And I'm not sure that he is necessarily staying for Kara, I certainly didn't get that idea in this episode at all. EXCEPT, for the simple fact that she makes him a better person, and that is truly what he wants to be. NOW, after tomorrow night will that change and they go back to a couple again? Who knows, but I don't think "being with her" romantically is why he stayed. I just didn't get that from his last conversation with his parents.

Which makes me think they are really baddies. And yes, Kara DOES make Mon-El a better person despite who he is and what he has done or has been doing. If a guy has a girlfriend that makes him better than who he is, it's a plus.

I do however, think they are the ones that put a bounty on Kara.

I somehow believe that prediction will come true. So it boils down to the execution of what happens next Monday.

Loved the scenes between Kara and Mon-el's parents, those were fantastic, as was the last scene between Kara and Mon-el.....brought a tear to my eye, or a few tears.

I felt sad myself, but the execution of this moment was so brilliantky handed. But this is also why I took notes instead of go into that Bizarro world called Twitter. It felt REALLY good. Think I will go at it this way the rest of the season for Supergirl. For the other shows I will hop aboard the Tweet train. That and I did not want to see those anti-Karamel nuts doing a victory dance when perhaps they may have jumped the gun.

The dinner scene was totally unsettling, which it should have been.

The Password is "AWKWARD" (ding!)

As far as the rest of this episode. Just wasn't in to the whole Winn thing, seemed like filler to me....pretty meh.

Well we did get some Lyra backstory.

 

[NotNickFury]

Couple of things...

Okay, I don't mind learning about Winn's lady friend and such, but I don't personally think this should've taken up as much of the episode as it did. Furthermore, we've never seen or had any indication that she was conning Winn, so this shift came out of nowhere to me.

Second...aliens from beyond the stars are interested in art trafficking? Not even alien art? This is the equivalent of Divatox on Power Rangers Turbo once robbing a bank, even though American dollars probably can't amount to much on the intergalactic circuit.

We've got Mon-El's parents returning. If anything, that should've taken up more of the episode, but they felt like an afterthought so we could get the easy and cheap CW drama between Kara and Mon-El. And yes, I call it easy because like everything else, I'm expecting this to be wrapped up in a nice little bow later. At least when iZombie has drama mixed in with musical cues, it feels genuine.

I'm not entirely sure why Kara has this ultimatum stance on Mon-El keeping a secret from her and encouraging him to return to start a new life. Kara knows that Clark is around and she's been to the Fortress of Solitude, but she hasn't abandoned her Earth life. Granted, that's not what she and Clark were destined for, but she didn't pull a Clark in Superman Returns and just leave to find remnants or signs of her people or home planet.

And should Mon-El keeping this huge secret be a temporary deal breaker for the relationship? Alex killed Astra, but Kara forgave her. It's not easy to come out and admit something that you're not ashamed of, and for Kara to, I dunno, get on this pedestal and act like this secret that Mon-El clearly isn't proud of being what ends the relationship for now seems childish. And arrogant, as if she's never held onto any sort of secret. I mean, Kara's smarter than that and I hate when writers make characters either slide backwards or act counter to how we've seen them before. This divide doesn't feel like it serves a purpose other than to create some pathos between Kara and Mon-El that will probably be resolved before the season ends.

To compare to two of the other show, one of the things I like about Barry and Oliver is that they're both flawed and acknowledge that, Oliver especially with him acknowledging how his darkness has affected others- and others telling him this as well. But the way Supergirl is written here, Kara has this holier-than-thou attitude and it makes her look unsympathetic in my mind at times. And I don't like that because Benoist is so great in the role, but the characterization is questionable at times based on the writing.

Oh, I'm also curious if the Music Meister is from Earth 1 since he seems to know The Flash or if he just somehow ended up on Supergirl's world...the question aside of how he ended up there in the first place without the device that Cisco made for Kara or why now of all moments the device would even come back into play outside of just setting up a crossover.

 

[Gaultheria]

And I believe that Kryptonian ambassador also had the S symbol on his suit.

It was bright, too, when everything else had muted colours, so it looks like it was meant to stand out.

plus, naming their son Mon-El, a Kryptonian name with Kryptonian naming convention, flies in the face of everything the show has established of the history between Daxam and Krypton. They can't stand each other and their respective cultures. So, why then would the King and Queen of Daxam then give their son a Kryptonian name, instead of a Daxamite name.

Maybe Daxamite commoners have Kryptonian names. "Lar Gand" could just be the king's regnal name, and I suspect "Rhea" was chosen for the awkwardness of being Hercules' grandmother.

 

[Gaultheria]

Second...aliens from beyond the stars are interested in art trafficking?

Rare cultural works will always be collectible and valuable to someone. On a cost/weight basis, art is probably Earth's most profitable export, valued for its uniqueness even if not for its aesthetics.

 

[Frodo]

sadly, Kara has come across as a self-righteous hypocrite this entire season. not just with Mon-El, but also about the James/Guardian situation.

By Kara's standards, she shouldn't have kept her secret identity from Cat or Snapper or Lena this season. Yet she did/does, lying to them in some form every time she sees them.

But that's ok for Kara, it seems. She can have her reasons for keeping secrets, hiding stuff, and not being totally honest. But apparently Mon-El can't.

Mon-El always has to change himself to accommodate or please Kara. but so far in the relationship, she hasn't really changed much to accommodate him. I'm not saying Mon-El hasn't made his share of mistakes, but so far the give-take in their relationship seems to be rather one-sided where the burden is more on Mon-El.

and that ties into another area of hypocrisy for Kara.

at the beginning of the season, when she started out as a reporter, her first article was a scathing attack on the "right wing" anti-alien bigots or whatever she called them. She railed against their close minded prejudice yet she STILL holds onto her own bias and prejudice against Daxamites and their culture.

She does seem a bit different from her character in the first season on CBS. She seemed more humble and more practical in resolving interpersonal issues and if anything, Alex was the one who was less willing to compromise.

This season she takes hardline stances and comes off as self-righteous at times which seems out of character for this version of Kara imo. She's actually reminding me more of Oliver Queen than Kara Danvers.

 

[metaphysician]

Think of it like the rich dude who pays big money for an "authentic work of aboriginal art", that happens to be acquired by dubious or outright illegal means.

 

[NotNickFury]

This season she takes hardline stances and comes off as self-righteous at times which seems out of character for this version of Kara imo. She's actually reminding me more of Oliver Queen than Kara Danvers.

That's a good way to put it, and it's part of what makes Barry and Oliver such polar opposites. Barry and Kara can have their dark moments, sure, but Oliver's life is more rooted in darkness, whereas with Barry and Kara, there's at least a continuing thread of optimism throughout their lives.

 

[Lencho01]

A very meh episode for me.

 

[Thome216]

But the way Supergirl is written here, Kara has this holier-than-thou attitude and it makes her look unsympathetic in my mind at times. And I don't like that because Benoist is so great in the role, but the characterization is questionable at times based on the writing.

I think that fits into what others on the show have been saying, that Kryptonians can be holier-than-thou and judgmental. I don't think we saw much of it from Kara during Season 1 because Earth was new to her, but throw in elements of her planet's past, especially such prejudices ingrained when she was a child, and it's no surprise these will come out.

This is a flaw, not in the writing, but within the character herself. And what we are seeing is Kara's growth away from childish, preconceived notions. That means, yes that's right, her character is growing and evolving, which is what we want. If she was perfect right from the start, I think most would find that pretty boring...

Mon-El is not the only one who needs to grow.

 

[NotNickFury]

There's evolution and there's a character flip-flopping. Again, Kara has been willing to forgive characters keeping big secrets before. Alex killing Astra was last season and even then Kara was still finding her place. She was no perfect then than she is now and has certainly never come off as a goody two shoes. Maybe a bit closer to that compared to, say, Oliver and Barry, since this IS Supergirl we're talking about, but she's been flawed from the start. If she can do it then, there's no reason to take this to the nth degree and pull this pettiness when we've seen her rise above that before. There's nothing evolving about that.

 

[flickchick85]

There's evolution and there's a character flip-flopping. Again, Kara has been willing to forgive characters keeping big secrets before. Alex killing Astra was last season and even then Kara was still finding her place. If she can do it then, there's no reason to take this to the nth degree and pull this pettiness when we've seen her rise above that before. There's nothing evolving about that.

Except with Mon-El, it's a repetitive thing. He's always apologizing to her for something at the end of these episodes - Either not listening to her (like when she asked for privacy in their relationship, or for him to get Alex when she went through the portal, or the whole "protect civilians thing," or the part where she just wanted him to say ONE nice thing to Jeremiah at dinner....) or not being honest with her (about remembering the kiss or about why he wanted to be a hero). It's a pattern. This was just one (big) time too many. I don't blame her, personally, and I'm kind of disappointed she'll be forgiving him so easily. How many times will she forgive the same behavior before she figures out the boy really isn't changing all that much. He's still not doing the "hero" thing for altruistic reasons, despite the point made several episodes ago that doing it to be with her was not the right reason to do so. He literally still said this episode "I want to be a hero because it means being by your side." I like Mon-El and Chris Wood, but I don't think Mon-El is a good boyfriend, and especially not a good match for Kara. I just don't see them as equals at all. She is constantly the teacher, and he is constantly screwing up and learning from her. A relationship built on one party consistently having to be the moral compass for both is not a good one, imo.

And the way he's always expecting to be forgiven on the spot - first with the whole baseball analogy in "Homecoming," then with the rom-com analogy in this episode...it's just not a good thing to me. Now, for the record, I went on the Supergirl tag on Tumblr recently (y'all weren't kidding about the crazies!), and I certainly don't agree with those calling this relationship "abusive" or "toxic" or whatever - I just don't feel it's a very good or strong one, and I think BOTH characters were better when they weren't a couple.

 

[Thome216]

There's evolution and there's a character flip-flopping. Again, Kara has been willing to forgive characters keeping big secrets before. Alex killing Astra was last season and even then Kara was still finding her place. She was no perfect then than she is now and has certainly never come off as a goody two shoes. Maybe a bit closer to that compared to, say, Oliver and Barry, since this IS Supergirl we're talking about, but she's been flawed from the start. If she can do it then, there's no reason to take this to the nth degree and pull this pettiness when we've seen her rise above that before. There's nothing evolving about that.

See, that's what I think Kara is falling back on Kryptonian ideals where Mon-El is concerned. Alex and the others are Humans, whom she has had no preconceived notions drilled into her head about. Daxamites on the other hand... All she has are other people's ideas on the matter, and it doesn't help that they are founded on a basis of truth.

Daxamites were brutish and hedonistic - also slave-owners apparently - and Krytonians were snobby and overbearing. She played the part she was raised to play and now we are seeing her growing past preconceived notions. The same with Mon-El.

 

[NotNickFury]

Now, for the record, I went on the Supergirl tag on Tumblr recently (y'all weren't kidding about the crazies!), and I certainly don't agree with those calling this relationship "abusive" or "toxic" or whatever - I just don't feel it's a very good or strong one, and I think BOTH characters were better when they weren't a couple.

There's a bad idea. Or going to Tumblr in general, really. Those people are just rabid and unhinged.

 

[Kelly]

Tumblr is just nuts for sure, on Twitter, I think I am up to over 150 mutes just to be able to converse with the writers at all during the airing of the series.

It is absolutely ridiculous, and after Flash tonight, I can only imagine what the Supercorp people are doing right now. Probably ready to burn down the CW. *shakes head* just nuts.

 

[X Knight]

Tumblr is just nuts for sure, on Twitter, I think I am up to over 150 mutes just to be able to converse with the writers at all during the airing of the series.

It is absolutely ridiculous, and after Flash tonight, I can only imagine what the Supercorp people are doing right now. Probably ready to burn down the CW. *shakes head* just nuts.

why?? was the crossover ep bad??

 

[flickchick85]

why?? was the crossover ep bad??

No it wasn't, imo, but [blackout]it got Kara back together with Mon-El[/blackout], which is why I believe Kelly is suggesting the "Supercorp" fans would be upset.

 

[X Knight]

No it wasn't, imo, but [blackout]it got Kara back together with Mon-El[/blackout], which is why I believe Kelly is suggesting the "Supercorp" fans would be upset.

ah, I see. thanks.

 

[Dark Raven]

This episode seemed to have too much focus on Winn. Kara and Mon-El became the B plot when they were meant to be the main story.

If they couldn't feature Kara as much if Melissa was filming the musical, at least they should have focused on Mon -El and his relationship with his parents. They could've given us extended scenes between them and filled in more of their background. This episode wasn't what I was expecting at all.

 

[SSAV]

I think Mon El is here to stay. I'd be really shocked if they send him packing at the end of the season.

Chris Wood's acting was very good this episode (Melissa's is always good; especially in those emotional moments. ). I really could see that he did love Kara very much; whatever his heroic tendencies, or his understanding of what being a better person entails.

I don't agree that he wants to stay back from a moral perspective rather than a romantic one because his whole explanation in all of his conversations was a. he wants to be a hero because he wants to spend his every moment with Kara b. He wants to be near Kara because he believes Kara makes him a better person.

Both are problematic in that, I'd prefer people to have motivations beyond romantic love; have career aspirations and goals; and a character outside of the fact that I came to this planet, I met this girl, I liked her and am inspired by her, and now I want to spend all my time with her, helping her, okay, but yeah. Oh, and before that I was just focused on having a good time.

Anyways, even if you consider that his stance to stay behind was moral, I think something more moral, or I should say, nobler would be for him to work for his people; to work towards settling his planet with refugee and scattered daxamites and then work towards a better civilisation for them; may be ending in a democracy?

After all, it is not for nothing that heads of states (or activists) and such who have changed an entire country's future are slightly more celebrated than cops, and even military people even though they are individual heroes. The scale and magnitude of the effect/reach of a head of states' actions would be more far reaching that most individual heroes.

Considering that at least until his mid twenties (if Daxamites age the same way in Daxam as we do here in Earth), he lived off the fruits of the labours of the oppressed in his planet, it may also be something of an atonement for him. He is not a layman. He is a prince. (It's not the same as blaming white people now for slavery and Jim Crow, because those were before the person's time). (Not to mention that M'gann, a lay person, did so much more without outside input or inspiration.)

The show could actually go with that while including Kara. Next season, Kara could leave earth behind to help Mon El; lead Daxamites onto a new future.

It'd involve both parts of the identity the show has focused on this season--> Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) and Kara the lover. She would serve as his support system, inspiring him when needed, and at times, may be his people too, fighting with him when needed, and arguing with him when she thinks he is straying--all of which she has been doing very well this past season. Just like all the great women who have been wives/partners of heads of states and revolutionaries have done.

There would be great potential in this storyline (provided handled properly) because it might involve going to hostile planets to save some contingents of aliens who may have been sold to slavery, going to another planet where folks have settled more or less okay and trying to convince them why going back to Daxam is such a great idea, dealing with special-interest groups that are in it for themselves for their own sake and so on. You could have action and superheroics, intrigue, diplomacy, drama and comedy as well.

And, as said before, she could inspire not just him but his people as well, so she would have as a wide range as in this season. Just replace Lena with some other woman; or man. May be his cousin or a scion of another noble family in Daxam.

Her moving from earth shouldn't be a problem. As far as I know people do move locations for romantic love.

Or, they could just take a 100-year leap at the end of this season (done all the time in Hindi TV shows when they need a change), so that Alex, Winn and James will all have been gone (happily and in peace). J'onn could get a message from M'gann that her resistance out there in the green planet is working and they have a considerable base there and he could go back there to help with it. May be, there could also be some hidden green martians in other planets who could be found, that he could have them as a basis for another Green Martian civilisation.

In the third season, they could have some scenes where Kara reminisces about her time on Earth (whatever her reason for leaving) and some scenes with Alex, Winn and James... And, then, by the fourth, they could completely do away with that and focus only on Mon El, Kara and the people.

Considering just how important public service is, and how strenuous, and how less it's appreciated really in the stories, it'd be a good story for the youngsters watching too.

And if they still want diversity and inclusion, they could have a new LGB or T couple or person among the Daxamites, and a POC or two.

 

[SSAV]

I really liked the Alex-Winn-James team up.

I am not a fan of romance, and was not interested in that bit, but considering Alex is my favorite character after Kara (though the difference between them decreases at times), I really liked how protective she was of Winn at the station. (I like their relationship.)

And I have not been bothered by James since the time when James and Kara made up. So, I liked his bits too.

However, I was troubled by the use of violence in the bar; and how gratuitous it was. I could cut her some slack for how she dealt with Maxwell Lord or that Cadmus person because both times, she was under great emotional duress, and J'onn had taken her to task or stopped her and the story has shown that she was wrong (well, at least, in Lord's case). Here, the show itself seemed to be okay with the violence, and it was played just for laughs I think.

How does being against police violence in real life gel with using it liberally for fun and effects in a show?

Also, while I liked the storyline just for Alex-Winn-James team up, I think, the show should do away with DEO and NCPD; otherwise the individual agents breaking out whenever they want makes the government look inept and J'onn a promoter of cronysm. Not to mention the agents themselves selfish and non-follower of laws. They could have something private ltd. And all those troubling moral questions and all the conflict of interest would be gone.

I liked that Lyra risked her life for her brother too... (I just liked it familial and platonic relationships. )

However, I was very surprised that Winn got back together with Lyra by the end (and of course the show seemed to suggest that that was the whole point of Winn-Lyra arc; to give Kara an example and make her grow and accept Mon El).

It's not the forgiveness I have trouble with. I'd forgive a friend who lied to me or kept things from me quite easily (in fact, I have done that). What I have trouble with is how it didn't affect his self-confidence or his faith in his own judgement. At least, for a time.

He may admire and respect Lyra for her risking her life to save the life of someone else, but how could he trust that she still likes him beyond all that? Just because she said so? Also, how could he know what he believes is true? Especially considering his record so far?

Wouldn't he need some time to recuperate and get back his sense of self?

May be for Winn, it is in character because he has had a penchant for falling for women with no thought of consequences?

Which brings us to Kara and Mon El. She can forgive him; because when all is said and done, a person's secret is their own to reveal at the time they wish. But, how could she trust herself? And if she lacks faith in herself and her own judgement, how fair would it be to get back together with Mon El? Wouldn't it just slowly erode their relationship? Unless, she manages to deal with her issues first?

Mon El think it is about him (and the show itself seemed to take that theory). But, couldn't it be about her?


Also, from this episode, I understood that all conversations between Kara-Alex have been happening off screen. Considering that, once again, I don't see why they can't make a whole Kara-Mon El centric-saving-and-building-the civilisation thing a full time storyline next season; since Kara and Alex could communicate via long-distance communication off screen (if they don't take the 100-years leap and Alex is alive when Kara leaves). It'd be just what some grown up independent sisters do realistically (though not all).

 

[BH/HHH]

This episode started well enough, but I thought we were going to get an episode focused on Supergirl, Mon El and his parents but that seemed more a sub plot to Winn's GF storyline which wasn't bad in all honesty (but predictable, it was obvious she was going to turn out to be not what she seemed).

The references to Man of Steel (the message similar to Zod's) and Superman III (Supergirl getting trapped in a bubble).

All in all go with a 7/10 cause it was decent.

 

[BH/HHH]

My enjoyment of this show has eroded almost a hundred percent since last year. I'm seriously considering giving it up after this season. I can't believe I've liked LoT more this year than any other DCTV show.

I can see why, I don't feel that different to you (although I won't drop it). I think Kara has become a supporting character on the show and it has become way too relationship focused. On the whole Season One was a far better show IMO, for all the talk that Supergirl is better off on the CW, so far I have to disagree with that statement. Take away the Superman episodes and the Luthor's episode and I don't think this season has been very good at all.

 

[NotNickFury]

This episode started well enough, but I thought we were going to get an episode focused on Supergirl, Mon El and his parents but that seemed more a sub plot to Winn's GF storyline which wasn't bad in all honesty (but predictable, it was obvious she was going to turn out to be not what she seemed).

The references to Man of Steel (the message similar to Zod's) and Superman III (Supergirl getting trapped in a bubble).

And on that, you'd think that a sudden invasion televised to the world would garner more attention and focus. This might be something I'd attribute to the lack of Cat Grant, even though I have no problem with her absence, but one thing I haven't seen in this season as much as the first one was the news coverage on things Supergirl has done.

Sure, there's been some, yes, but it felt more...I dunno, prevalent, I guess, in the first season? Doesn't help that Kara is out of a job now- I guess the blog took a backseat after her very first story luckily went viral?- but I would think there'd be more attention on this not just from the DEO, but the general public.

 

[Nia]

This episode seemed to have too much focus on Winn. Kara and Mon-El became the B plot when they were meant to be the main story.

If they couldn't feature Kara as much if Melissa was filming the musical, at least they should have focused on Mon -El and his relationship with his parents. They could've given us extended scenes between them and filled in more of their background. This episode wasn't what I was expecting at all.

Chris/Mon-El was also pretty prominent in the crossover so he probably couldn't film a lot of scenes either.

 

[X Knight]

I can see why, I don't feel that different to you (although I won't drop it). I think Kara has before a supporting character on the show and it has be one way too relationship focused. On the whole Season One was a far better show IMO, for all the talk that Supergirl is better off on the CW, so far I have to disagree with that statement. Take away the Superman episodes and the Luthor's episode and I don't think this season has been very good at all.

I agree.