Supergirl Supergirl Season 2 Ep22 "Nevertheless, She Persisted" - SEASON FINALE; MAJOR SPOILERS

[Ita-KalEl]

So both season finales have Superman ending up as a mind control dope who needs to be saved by Supergirl. Than in case people didn't get the message when Supergirl beats Superman in a fight they need to have Superman explicitly say how much better Supergirl is than him in everything. Finally to top it off they have Lillian Luthor tell Lena that she is smarter than Lex as well.

This shows loves to sledge hammer you over the head with its girls rule message. As for DC/Warner's they really seem to have no respect for Superman these days. I find it hard to believe they would allow Batman to look so pathetic in any medium.

I agree. And it was the same with BvS...But fortunately things are going to change with JL and MOS2.

 

[jignat]

I just caught up with the last 9 or so episodes and finished Season 2.


I liked the finale and I feel that S2 is better than S1 in many ways.
I have mixed feelings about some aspects.

It was nice seeing Mgann again and bringing some white Martians to help in the struggle.


Jimmy Olsen is a waste in all aspects this season.
Being Catco's caretaker went nowhere.
I was interested in the Guardian story initially, but 90% of the time it felt like filler.
Throughout the show , we always get these allusions to his great relationship w/Supes and in the season finale, they dont even have any real scenes together.

Alex asking Maggie to marry her came out of left field.
Also, the way Maggie keeps secrets and just revealed to you a few episodes that she cheated must have been forgotten in the chaos right?

I dont know whether Kara is supposed to be stronger than Kal in the comics, but shouldn't he have more experience than her?
This ep referenced Zod and Mongul (warworld) indirectly.
I can accept her having a slight edge due to silver kryptonite ,but they didnt have to him state multiple times that she beat him at full strength.
SJW pandering?


Like Jimmy Olsen, I think the show has outgrown Cat Grant. Callista does a good job, but if Kara wants to grow as a hero, she needs to be free of these inspirational speeches from her. I would rather have Alex and J'onn be her close confidants imo.

Mon-el transforms from COD dudebro to Monistat-EL.

I appreciate now that they were trying to show him gain the drive to become a hero, but it felt like the Kara/Mon-el relationship vacillated every other episode between being snippy with each other and being great pals.
Also, it ties into a recurring problem with other CW shows.

The writers like to introduce a conflict with great fanfare and then resolve it SUPER quickly.

Example 1: Kara issues Jimmy an ultimatum to stop being Guardian and act s like theyre quits.
2 episodes later, it never gets brought up.

Example 2: Kara is mad at Mon for lying about being Prince of Daxam and then tells him its over.
The beginning of the VERY NEXT EPISODE has him making breakfast for her and acting like theyre newly married. WTF?
Granted the Flash musical episode takes place in between and I havent seen it, but c'mon.

So is the Phantom zone that Mon-el goes into or some other portal?

Also, another thing I disliked is the unresolved Cadmus and Jeremiah Danvers.
they build them up for 1/2 the season and then kind push them to the side.
Like Evelyn Sharp on Arrow S5, I kinda wished the finale had involved him more prominently.

I really liked Wynn a lot more this season.
I always felt the Catco IT guy was too lowly for him;He was funnier and had a consistent love interest (Et tu Cisco?)

Rheas scheme was run of the mill ,but Ive never seen Teri Hatcher as a villain so her performance and scene chewing elevated the material.

I liked Lena as an ally to Kara and hope that they keep her as a hero to subvert our expectations of her.

 

[flickchick85]

Example 2: Kara is mad at Mon for lying about being Prince of Daxam and then tells him its over.
The beginning of the VERY NEXT EPISODE has him making breakfast for her and acting like theyre newly married. WTF?
Granted the Flash musical episode takes place in between and I havent seen it, but c'mon.

Yeah, the whole plot of the Flash musical episode was for the main couples of each show to work out their issues. And yes, I guess it's not spoilery to say that at the end, they get back together. This is the perfect example of how the crossovers can hurt the shows' abilities to stand on their own. Though I did enjoy the musical episode quite a bit, but both shows took some hits in the clunky writing department to make it happen.

Overall, I agree with a lot of your thoughts on the season. I had a lot of issues with this season, but I still preferred it to S1 overall.

 

[Steyin]

This show is better when Cat Grant is present. Hope she returns for S3.

 

[Mike Murdock]

It seemed specifically set up for her to stay, which was unexpected.

 

[Kelly]

It seemed specifically set up for her to stay, which was unexpected.

She still is not going to be a regular, but it does seem that we may see her in more than 4 episodes next season.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

She still is not going to be a regular, but it does seem that we may see her in more than 4 episodes next season.

I certainly hope so, despite annoying me for the first few episodes in S1, she quickly became one of my favorite characters on the show, her talks with Kara/Supergirl were often among the best parts of the first season.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Finally saw it and I liked it overall. Even as a big Superman fan I didn't have a huge problem with Supergirl beating him. I just didn't like the way it was done. Especially as Superman would have been giving his all if he thought he was fighting Zod. And then they had to throw in the Fortress conversation for good measure.

Superman took it as Superman would though, which was great. I just wish he would have been more involved in events at the end. But overall I liked it. And thought the ending was quite sad. Thought it threw up some questions for S3.

Was that portal Mon El went into for The Phantom Zone? This is where he often ended up in the comics. Also, was that Doomsday sent from Krypton 35 years ago? I hope not personally. Even though I love DD, he is a Superman villain.

 

[TheRedWraith]

The show is worse when she is present with the sjw third wave feminism bull getting a major shot in the arm to the point it becomes intolerable and the scenes if they are non vital require heavy fast forwarding through so as to skim for the point of the scene but no more than is needed for the sake of avoided irritation. I hope she gets very little screen time in this coming season.

 

[TheRedWraith]

That portal Mon-El went through is likely either a time portal taking him to the 31st century to the Legion of Superheroes, or one to the phantom zone so that he can stay in stasis until the 31st century so he can join up with the Legion of Superheroes.

 

[flickchick85]

Was that portal Mon El went into for The Phantom Zone? This is where he often ended up in the comics. Also, was that Doomsday sent from Krypton 35 years ago? I hope not personally. Even though I love DD, he is a Superman villain.

To the Mon-El question, I say: probably. Or at least something that will lead to him ending up in the future with the Legion.

To the other question, we've already gotten the answer to that as the villain has already been announced and cast: [blackout]It's Reign, leader of the Worldkillers. And she'll be played by Odette Annable. So, no Doomsday, but an actual Supergirl villain for a change.[/blackout].

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Finally saw it and I liked it overall. Even as a big Superman fan I didn't have a huge problem with Supergirl beating him. I just didn't like the way it was done. Especially as Superman would have been giving his all if he thought he was fighting Zod. And then they had to throw in the Fortress conversation for good measure.
.

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Superman wasn't giving it all. He was getting very solid, devastating punches in there from where I sat in the stadium. He was fighting Zod, the fight of his life. There was no way Superman was holding back in the slightest. It's just that it has been shown over the past 2 seasons that Supergirl can take a punch and bounce right back up. It's hard to beat someone that can't be physically harmed and is as strong as you are. Supergirl only won because they were both at the point of exhaustion and she got in one last good solid punch and then passed out too. What would you have had Superman do that he wasn't doing already?
As to what he said at TFoS, isn't that proof he wasn't holding back, if there were any thoughts he was holding back?

 

[Kelly]

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Superman wasn't giving it all. He was getting very solid, devastating punches in there from where I sat in the stadium. He was fighting Zod, the fight of his life. There was no way Superman was holding back in the slightest. It's just that it has been shown over the past 2 seasons that Supergirl can take a punch and bounce right back up. It's hard to beat someone that can't be physically harmed and is as strong as you are. Supergirl only won because they were both at the point of exhaustion and she got in one last good solid punch and then passed out too. What would you have had Superman do that he wasn't doing already?
As to what he said at TFoS, isn't that proof he wasn't holding back, if there were any thoughts he was holding back?

He actually got 1 more punch in than Supergirl did....

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Superman wasn't giving it all. He was getting very solid, devastating punches in there from where I sat in the stadium. He was fighting Zod, the fight of his life. There was no way Superman was holding back in the slightest. It's just that it has been shown over the past 2 seasons that Supergirl can take a punch and bounce right back up. It's hard to beat someone that can't be physically harmed and is as strong as you are. Supergirl only won because they were both at the point of exhaustion and she got in one last good solid punch and then passed out too. What would you have had Superman do that he wasn't doing already?
As to what he said at TFoS, isn't that proof he wasn't holding back, if there were any thoughts he was holding back?

I actually said in my post that Superman was definitely giving his all as he thought he was fighting Zod. Then we had the FOS conversation to confirm it. Not sure where you got that confused but my wording made sense to me at least.

I just didn't like the fight ending with Supergirl knocking him out with a punch. Especially one that didn't look overly devastating the way it was filmed.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

To the Mon-El question, I say: probably. Or at least something that will lead to him ending up in the future with the Legion.

To the other question, we've already gotten the answer to that as the villain has already been announced and cast: [blackout]It's Reign, leader of the Worldkillers. And she'll be played by Odette Annable. So, no Doomsday, but an actual Supergirl villain for a change.[/blackout].

Ah okay thanks. Not familiar with [BLACKOUT]Reign[/BLACKOUT] and so didn't know she was Kryptonian.

 

[Kelly]

I actually said in my post that Superman was definitely giving his all as he thought he was fighting Zod. Then we had the FOS conversation to confirm it. Not sure where you got that confused but my wording made sense to me at least.

I just didn't like the fight ending with Supergirl knocking him out with a punch. Especially one that didn't look overly devastating the way it was filmed.

I think both of them only had 1 punch left in them, she was "lucky" that she got that last punch in first....lol

To me it showed them equal in strength, so I didn't really see the need in the next scene for him to say that she beat him. Not really sure why they felt the need to make that clear.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think both of them only had 1 punch left in them, she was "lucky" that she got that last punch in first....lol

To me it showed them equal in strength, so I didn't really see the need in the next scene for him to say that she beat him. Not really sure why they felt the need to make that clear.

Girl power .

But even accounting for them having equal strength, Kal has much more experience and shouldn't have lost that way IMO. He even mentions fighting on Warworld where he would have encountered beings of equal and greater power.

 

[Kelly]

Girl power .

But even accounting for them having equal strength, Kal has much more experience and shouldn't have lost that way IMO. He even mentions fighting on Warworld where he would have encountered beings of equal and greater power.

She's been trained by the best as well....and trained specifically to use the other person's strengths against them. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

 

[JMLZ]

Man of Steel showed how a fight would have gone with much more plausibility.

Superman fought Faora-Ul and her superiority in hand to hand combat was plain to see. He couldn’t trade blows with her and hope to win so he resorted to brute forcing his way through their fight; charging into her like a speeding car using his power to fly. That fight was written in a way that wouldn’t insult the audiences’ intelligence by keeping plausibility in mind when showing what we would expect to see when watching a farmer fight a soldier.

Has there been anything in on Supergirl recently that would cause us to expect Kara to have a greater strength or ‘resistance to injury’ than Kal? Because I remember an episode where Reactron almost killed her in a junkyard, and Superman showed up to intervene. Reactron hit him with the same lightning attack that dropped Kara, and Kal just stood there tanking the attack; spooking Reactron into fleeing. Now in the season 2 finale, for no apparent reason Kara is able to slug it out with Kal and knock him unconscious. I don't care if they wrote in 'Kara drops, exhausted' afterward; it's still a BS outcome.

This fight in Supergirl was handled very poorly, and fans are right to be annoyed. The Supergirl fans are Superman fans too. Those watching the show had cause to believe that Superman should have been a much bigger threat, because on paper he’s got every advantage. Kara managing to defeat Superman is one thing; straight-up overpowering him (given what’s already been shown) is something else. The people complaining about the "Girl Power!" message lowering the quality of the show have a legitimate gripe, and the writers had better calm that down, or they are going to screw up the opportunity they have by alienating more of the people who would otherwise want to see it do well.

 

[BH/HHH]

Girl power .

But even accounting for them having equal strength, Kal has much more experience and shouldn't have lost that way IMO. He even mentions fighting on Warworld where he would have encountered beings of equal and greater power.

I even think the fact Superman thought he was fighting Zod made it way worse too. In that moment he's determined to stop Zod and he couldn't. I get if it's an actual episode with Zod you would have Superman lose the first fight. But he would have his comeback and in this he didn't get that chance nor could he.

Man of Steel showed how a fight would have gone with much more plausibility.

Superman fought Faora-Ul and her superiority in hand to hand combat was plain to see. He couldn’t trade blows with her and hope to win so he resorted to brute forcing his way through their fight; charging into her like a speeding car using his power to fly. That fight was written in a way that wouldn’t insult the audiences’ intelligence by keeping plausibility in mind when showing what we would expect to see when watching a farmer fight a soldier.

Has there been anything in on Supergirl recently that would cause us to expect Kara to have a greater strength or ‘resistance to injury’ than Kal? Because I remember an episode where Reactron almost killed her in a junkyard, and Superman showed up to intervene. Reactron hit him with the same lightning attack that dropped Kara, and Kal just stood there tanking the attack; spooking Reactron into fleeing. Now in the season 2 finale, for no apparent reason Kara is able to slug it out with Kal and knock him unconscious. I don't care if they wrote in 'Kara drops, exhausted' afterward; it's still a BS outcome.

This fight in Supergirl was handled very poorly, and fans are right to be annoyed. The Supergirl fans are Superman fans too. Those watching the show had cause to believe that Superman should have been a much bigger threat, because on paper he’s got every advantage. Kara managing to defeat Superman is one thing; straight-up overpowering him (given what’s already been shown) is something else. The people complaining about the "Girl Power!" message lowering the quality of the show have a legitimate gripe, and the writers had better calm that down, or they are going to screw up the opportunity they have by alienating more of the people who would otherwise want to see it do well.

You're spot on.

It wasn't even the fact Superman got beat that bothered me all that much though it was what got said after in the FOS. He didn't need to say that, end of the day they really could have avoided all aggro by just having them say the Kryptonite may have effected him. Leave it ambiguous.

After the way they dealt with him in the opening two episodes I was hoping they would continue to treat him properly but they dropped the ball in the finale. They totally disrespected the Superman fans in favour of the girl power message. They've done this sort of thing before and rammed that message down our throats. Wonder Woman showed how you do it. They weren't going on about the fact she was female for two hours and ramping up the aspects of the girl power message. Infact the Supergirl writer could learn a lot from that movie.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

She's been trained by the best as well....and trained specifically to use the other person's strengths against them. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

When Alex first started training Kara, Alex emphasized that Kara would be going up against beings stronger than her, so Kara needed to learn how to fight smart and not just depend on her powers.
So for the sake of argument lets say that Superman is indeed more powerful. That's where Kara's training paid off.

 

[Thome216]

I even think the fact Superman thought he was fighting Zod made it way worse too. In that moment he's determined to stop Zod and he couldn't. I get if it's an actual episode with Zod you would have Superman lose the first fight. But he would have his comeback and in this he didn't get that chance nor could he...

He thought he was fighting Zod, but he wasn't. Which makes a big difference to the outcome of a fight, if he is using tactics that don't work against an entirely different opponent than he thinks he's fighting.

 

[Kelly]

Also, he was fighting to kill Zod, she was fighting for her life. That is a big difference. But, again I will side with the those not happy with how this came about with the FoS scene...there was absolutely no need for Superman to concede that she was stronger and that he wasn't weakened. #1...he wouldn't know, #2...that was overkill. He still could in the later scene said that she is the one that should fight Rhea, #1. because she did defeat Superman at that time, and #2...she had fought Rhea before and was familiar with her. So again, really no need for the FoS dialogue, again it was overkill.

Other than that, I loved Superman in this episode. He was gentle, humble and knew when to exit. LOL, real men should know when to exit.

 

[LL2K2]

When Alex first started training Kara, Alex emphasized that Kara would be going up against beings stronger than her, so Kara needed to learn how to fight smart and not just depend on her powers.
So for the sake of argument lets say that Superman is indeed more powerful. That's where Kara's training paid off.

Exactly. It's known that this version of Superman worked with the DEO when he first started. What's NOT known, though, is whether he underwent combat training.

Yet we've seen the Legion ring on display at the Fortress on several occasions. This would suggest Superman was part of the Legion of Super-Heroes at some point. He could have joined when he first started in his 20s (perhaps after leaving the DEO), or, quite possibly, he could have joined as a teenager.

That's just one of several reasons I'd like to see a one-shot Secret Origin story or even a mini-series. We 'may know his story,' but do we really?

 

[JMLZ]

Also, he was fighting to kill Zod, she was fighting for her life. That is a big difference.

I don't see how that makes a difference. When isn't she fighting for her life?