The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - The ANIMATED SERIES is now set for 2011

[TheCorpulent1]

Hey corp might wanna do something bout this

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=312891

Done.

As for the series, I'm cautiously looking forward to it. I'm not a fan of the art style--especially Thor's look, which is kind of ******ed--but it's the original roster plus Captain America, which is a plus, and everything about the build-up to the Avengers movies seems solid so far, and this is a part of that. Hopefully it'll work out.

 

[Phatman]

The designs look great. They kind of remind me of Transformers animated. If they stay true to the comics like Spectacular Spider-man, this show will be a hit. I can't wait for this show to come out or the figures!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The designs look great. They kind of remind me of Transformers animated. If they stay true to the comics like Spectacular Spider-man, this show will be a hit. I can't wait for this show to come out or the figures!

That's one of my main problems with them.

 

[Hurm...]

you never see high quality animation anymore. avatar is the only 'toon on tv with nice, clean animation.

See, now your confused. the actual ANIMATION on shows like SSM, JLU, Transformers Animated, etc. are wonderful, but your confusing ANIMATION with Character DESIGNS. It's one thing if you dislike the designs for a show but it's another thing if you don't like the animation because it's too slow or stiff.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish we could see more animation along the lines of the early Gargoyles episodes. That was probably the best-animated show I've seen.

 

[Phatman]

I wish we could see more animation along the lines of the early Gargoyles episodes. That was probably the best-animated show I've seen.

I doubt we'll ever see another Gargoyles quality show ever again. Hand-drawn animation of that quality costs $2-3 million an episode now; back in the late 80's-mid 1990's when that show was made you could make a 22-minute cartoon like Ducktales, Gargoyles or Chip'N Dale Rescue Rangersfor $500,000 to $1 milllion an episode.

A lot of stuff was done in house at U.S. studios like that until the box office failures and ratings flops of the late 1990's and early 2000s like Titan A.E., Treasure Planet Road to El Dorado and Home on the Range. After these failures and the success of CGI animated movies like Shrek and the Pixar movies, Studios laid off hand-drawn animators and closed up their hand drawn divisions. The CGI stuff was cheaper to produce and made a higher profit margin than the hand-drawn animated programs made.

Today animated shows that aren't imported from Japan are made for cheap outsourcing the art to China or using computers for most of the models, backgrounds and movements. Instead of animating direct to film, like in the Grgoyles days, they use videotape or DV backgrounds which cut costs 50%. That's why the movements look so crappy. If you look at a Batman Beyond episode (1999) and a JLU episode (2003) you can see the difference between filmed hand drawn animation and videotape.

Even with outsourcing aand computers a hand drawn animated program ilike Gragoyles ]is just too costly to produce today. Back then syndication was king; that allowed local networks to buy and distribute shows and that allowed the producers to make profits all over the country. Combine this with licensing from toys and merchandising and Prodcers made their money even after the first episode was produced With the rise of the netlets, that revenue stream is gone. With Saturday mornings gone (now down to ABC Kida CW4Kids TV here in New york) The best any producer can hope for is a basic cable run and a DVD release to break even.

So unless Disney, Warner Fox or Dreamworks gets a hit from their hand-Drawn divisions, (unlikely) I doubt we'll ever see a superhero show done with that level of animation. Maybe the Titans Direct-to DVD Judas Contract but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd settle for a cel-shaded CG cartoon. As stiff as Transformers: Cybertron's animation was, it still looked decent. CG is probably pretty cheap at this point, too.

 

[RAMORE]

The major positive is that AVENGERS:UTS in 1999 SO lowered the bar that there is almost no physical way AVENGERS: WGH could be worse. Simply by default, it will be superior. The challenge is to have this show emerge behind the incredible shadow left by past team shows by Bruce Timm. They at least have years of hindsight in their favor; not EVERYTHING worked with JL/U. Naturally, when more comes out about this show, one can comment further. But right now it's good news, and I look forward to hearing more.

Leave it to dread to be the voice of reason

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Unless it's revealed that Bendis is involved with the cartoon. Then Dread's reason goes right out the window, replaced by cold, simmering rage.

 

[RAMORE]

Done.

As for the series, I'm cautiously looking forward to it. I'm not a fan of the art style--especially Thor's look, which is kind of ******ed--but it's the original roster plus Captain America, which is a plus, and everything about the build-up to the Avengers movies seems solid so far, and this is a part of that. Hopefully it'll work out.

Ditto stoked about Cap and like the line up just not the art. But as others have said it's still a long way out hopefully it will change

 

[RAMORE]

I wish we could see more animation along the lines of the early Gargoyles episodes. That was probably the best-animated show I've seen.

Exactly great story great art they should model that man!

 

[RAMORE]

I doubt we'll ever see another Gargoyles quality show ever again. Hand-drawn animation of that quality costs $2-3 million an episode now; back in the late 80's-mid 1990's when that show was made you could make a 22-minute cartoon like Ducktales, Gargoyles or Chip'N Dale Rescue Rangersfor $500,000 to $1 milllion an episode.

A lot of stuff was done in house at U.S. studios like that until the box office failures and ratings flops of the late 1990's and early 2000s like Titan A.E., Treasure Planet Road to El Dorado and Home on the Range. After these failures and the success of CGI animated movies like Shrek and the Pixar movies, Studios laid off hand-drawn animators and closed up their hand drawn divisions. The CGI stuff was cheaper to produce and made a higher profit margin than the hand-drawn animated programs made.

Today animated shows that aren't imported from Japan are made for cheap outsourcing the art to China or using computers for most of the models, backgrounds and movements. Instead of animating direct to film, like in the Grgoyles days, they use videotape or DV backgrounds which cut costs 50%. That's why the movements look so crappy. If you look at a Batman Beyond episode (1999) and a JLU episode (2003) you can see the difference between filmed hand drawn animation and videotape.

Even with outsourcing aand computers a hand drawn animated program ilike Gragoyles ]is just too costly to produce today. Back then syndication was king; that allowed local networks to buy and distribute shows and that allowed the producers to make profits all over the country. Combine this with licensing from toys and merchandising and Prodcers made their money even after the first episode was produced With the rise of the netlets, that revenue stream is gone. With Saturday mornings gone (now down to ABC Kida CW4Kids TV here in New york) The best any producer can hope for is a basic cable run and a DVD release to break even.

So unless Disney, Warner Fox or Dreamworks gets a hit from their hand-Drawn divisions, (unlikely) I doubt we'll ever see a superhero show done with that level of animation. Maybe the Titans Direct-to DVD Judas Contract but I'm not holding my breath.

Dude that's so depressing...animation is a dying art form

 

[RAMORE]

Unless it's revealed that Bendis is involved with the cartoon. Then Dread's reason goes right out the window, replaced by cold, simmering rage.

True. Hahah

 

[Phatman]

I'd settle for a cel-shaded CG cartoon. As stiff as Transformers: Cybertron's animation was, it still looked decent. CG is probably pretty cheap at this point, too.

yeah, they could proably make a good Avengers CGI show at a decent price. A 52-65 episode run on CW4kids or a cable network would work. Man I wish that all the networks would offer Saturday morning cartoons again. kids today don't know what they're missing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Kids today probably aren't missing them. If ratings were high, more studios would probably make Saturday morning cartoon shows.

 

[Prison Mike]

Unless it's revealed that Bendis is involved with the cartoon. Then Dread's reason goes right out the window, replaced by cold, simmering rage.

what's wrong with Bendis?

 

[Dread]

Apparently, they're gonna try to do it right this time.

This is good. As I noted above, the major advantage is that 1999's AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND was so astonishingly horrible, that the bar for an Avengers TV cartoon is very low and simply by default, this one will be better. It has the big three (or four if you include the well-known Hulk) after all. I went into length about the past works of the story editor (Yost) and producer (Cielio). They're not of the pedigree of a Timm or a Wiesman, but they have some range of work between them and could, in theory, pull this off.

Spectacular Spider-man is a big success and it's still going.

Indeed. The standard alotment for cartoons these days is 26 episodes and because SS-M is airing on a regular network, this is being chopped into 2 seasons instead of one, as FF:WGH and WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN were and are. Hopefully it sees a third. SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN truly lives up to it's name and is the best superhero cartoon on TV.

I saw an episode on the bonus Walmart DVD attached to the Iron Man movie and I have to say it's beyond dreadful. The teenage Tony thing just doesn't work. (Yet AGAIN!) Ripping off Spider-Man and subbing Happy for Flash Thompson and a ditzy Pepper for MJ is flat out annoying. Iron Man himself has a large, kiddie head and looks skinny and out of place. Teenage Mandarin is also lame. Overall, I'll pass on this. I can't believe any kids that were turned on by the movie are going to like this incarnation. I know most older fans are going to be disappointed.

I saw a preview of the CGI Teen Iron Man and it didn't impress me. Much like with NEXT AVENGERS, simply converting teen heroes in place of adult ones usually doesn't work. It does when you infuse a lot of imagination, as BATMAN BEYOND did (which, every year, seems more and more original than it did in 1999). Audiences can tell when a show is talking down to them and pandering, and the new Iron Man appeared to do that. A shame, because as great as Iron Man Season 2 was in the 90's, the armored hero could use a better update. The INVINCIBLE IRON MAN DTV wasn't that hot, either.

Done.

As for the series, I'm cautiously looking forward to it. I'm not a fan of the art style--especially Thor's look, which is kind of ******ed--but it's the original roster plus Captain America, which is a plus, and everything about the build-up to the Avengers movies seems solid so far, and this is a part of that. Hopefully it'll work out.

Some people here do confuse character model design with animation quality. As I stated above, I see the trend is not exactly "anime" style but a stylized, exaggerated style, such as for SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN. Frankly, a lot of American cartoons have had that sort of angular style for a while now. The last bastion was the 2k3 TMNT, and they changed their models to follow the trend last year with FAST FORWARD. Even Steven E. Gordon, a peer of Don Bluth who worked on the designs for X-MEN EVOLUTION and ULTIMATE AVENGERS, aped that trend with his work on WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN. It simply is the trend. The belief is that it animates better.

As noted, 2D animation is expensive and network changes have altered the landscape. Basically, the advent of cable television led to the death of syndicated cartoon TV shows in many ways, from eliminating them from weekday network appearances (the last bastion was DIC, which sometimes would air cartoons on weekday mornings on some random stations or Sunday mornings, but even they have been limited to a Saturday block on CBS) and limiting any cartoon that isn't PBS to Saturday Mornings. In addition, there are fewer cartoons produced in the states as networks rely on dubbed anime. In the 80's, such things were the exception, limited to stuff like STAR BLAZERS or G-FORCE; today, at least 50-75% of kids cartoons are dubbed anime.

Still, I would be happy with 26 good episodes than 52 bad ones.

I see this as a step in the right direction. Really the only character design I dislike is Iron Man; his helmet looks very awkard. Thor's a bit bulky, but he should; at least he almost looks as big as Hulk, who usually makes other characters look puny. I will be interested in what the voice cast will be like.

I wonder if the roster could change or feature appearances from other team members, like X-Men cartoons do. That would be the best approach. I am also curious if Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch are off limits, much as Kingpin was off limits to SS-M, because they are part of the X-Men camp.

Leave it to dread to be the voice of reason

Unless it's revealed that Bendis is involved with the cartoon. Then Dread's reason goes right out the window, replaced by cold, simmering rage.

Bendis' first taste of TV work was MTV SPIDER-MAN, which he hated. So I doubt he is dipping his toe in again. Unless someone makes a Luke Cage series.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I would've been happier with the Wolverine and the X-Men style. It's a shame, really. Each of the recent cartoons that Marvel's putting out seem cool in some respects but have one annoying aspect: Wolverine and the X-Men airs on Nicktoons, which I don't have. Iron Man looks great but has a stupid premise. Avengers looks promising but its art style is crappy.

what's wrong with Bendis?

He's not good at his job, in many people's estimation.

 

[Dread]

what's wrong with Bendis?

To put it mildly, he is overrated, allowed way too much creative freedom over the entire Marvel Universe, and is completely unsuitable for a lot of the comics he writes, especially teams of superheroes.

I would've been happier with the Wolverine and the X-Men style. It's a shame, really. Each of the recent cartoons that Marvel's putting out seem cool in some respects but have one annoying aspect: Wolverine and the X-Men airs on Nicktoons, which I don't have. Iron Man looks great but has a stupid premise. Avengers looks promising but its art style is crappy.

To play Devil's Advocate, this is only a teaser art image. The show is not airing anywhere until 2011 (at least in the U.S.; it may hit Canada sooner as always) and the character models could go through redesigns. Promo animation for the series likely won't even be done for a year. The original artwork for TEEN TITANS and LEGION OF SUPERHEROES changed a bit to their finalized forms. Right now they're in the production phase, which can take a while.

WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN is airing on YTV in Canada and there are, ahem, ways of seeing it.

I agree that I would like to see some less stylized character models from cartoon shows, but that isn't the trend anymore for network TV. That said, AVENGERS: EMH doesn't look as extreme as LOSH was, or TEEN TITANS. Personally I think Cap looks good, and they got his shade of blue right; in the 90's, they often got it too bright.

 

[Phatman]

Kids today probably aren't missing them. If ratings were high, more studios would probably make Saturday morning cartoon shows.

Yeah kids today aren't missing much. The ratings are low because the cartoons are really bad. Dubbed over anime doesn't get this 35-year-old out of bed...Now I'm out on errands or shopping Saturday mornings. most kids are playing PS2 or wii in the mornings now. I used to get up at 7:30 to tape STAS, TNBA, Spiderman 90's, X-men all at once, switching between three or four videotapes at a time. Good times, Good times.

But I do like Spectacular Spider-man and the new Ninja Turtle show. If the Avengers animated is that good in the writing department, It'll be time to buy a new DVD recorder. I find shows are a lot more fun to watch with the commercials left intact.

 

[louiebling$]

That's one of my main problems with them.

That's my problem too

 

[Dread]

Yeah kids today aren't missing much. The ratings are low because the cartoons are really bad. Dubbed over anime doesn't get this 35-year-old out of bed...Now I'm out on errands or shopping Saturday mornings. most kids are playing PS2 or wii in the mornings now. I used to get up at 7:30 to tape STAS, TNBA, Spiderman 90's, X-men all at once, switching between three or four videotapes at a time. Good times, Good times.

But I do like Spectacular Spider-man and the new Ninja Turtle show. If the Avengers animated is that good in the writing department, It'll be time to buy a new DVD recorder. I find shows are a lot more fun to watch with the commercials left intact.

That is the dilemma. The majority of our animation market is still geared towards children. The problem is there is more competition than existed even into the mid-late 90's. Note that even in 1997 or so, you still had to pay for Internet by the hour most times. Cable was still considered a luxury with fewer channels until the 21st century. Nowadays the computer, game systems, DL's, and more cable channels and easy access have virtually destroyed the network TV cartoon market. It made cartoons, which were always expensive to do well, too expensive to invest as much into. Hence looking for easy outs, such as overseas animation, steamlined designs, even FLASH animation via computer and of course anime dubbing.

That said, Saturday mornings still deliver enough ratings that at least 3-4 major networks still offer cartoons from 7 or 8:00 a.m. to Noon, albeit some of them, like Disney, just re-air stuff from cable.

The problem with cartoons, also, is that as they still rely on being geared towards children because merchandise covers a lot of costs and often is how profits are maintained. High toy sales are likely a good reason why the newest run of TMNT cartoons have lasted 7 seasons. But even the action figure market is slowing down because kids "grow up" faster and have more technology to play with. Back when I was a kid, it wasn't unheard of for kids to still be playing with action figures until age 11-12, which is deep into junior high. Nowadays, such kids would be considered "babies" and so the toys are ditched for the controllers more and more. I haven't looked at toy figures but I can't imagine they reach the hieghts of the 80's. Adults collect toys, but that can't make up for this gap. And since adults don't buy toys in droves, gearing cartoons for them, beyond prime time comedies, is usually seen as nil.

But, there still is hope. Both SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN and WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN offer content that should please adults as well as kids; the latter is especially dark. So there's hope for AVENGERS: EMH to be geared properly. I am sure Yost & Ceilio likely are aware of the past failure of an Avengers show. Yost in particular in interviews usually knows his stuff. They know there is pressure to do it right; these sorts of opportunities only come around once a decade (or less). To drop the ball twice in a row would be unforgiveable. Still, like I said, it is hard to be worse than A:UTS. To me, that's the second worst comic book cartoon ever made (topped only by Superfriends, which refused to die and still taints network expectations for fluffy shows).

As for "nothing like Gargoyles ever again", I will say that Wiesman is off to a great start in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, and if you want some truly underrated comic cartoons, then the first 5 seasons of TMNT from 2002-2006 are some great stuff (which Wiesman also worked on for a while, as well as Yost and other writers). That entire span of over 100 episodes is truly an accomplishment. FAST FORWARD in 2007 bungled things, but they're trying to right the ship in '08.

I actually find it a GOOD SIGN that the roster shown are the founders. That is keeping with Avengers history. There's nothing barring The Hulk from becoming a "part timer" after the first few episodes and bringing in others like Black Panther, Vision, etc. Pym is there and through him come Ultron and Vision anyway (and if you want to be really faithful, Vision's brain patterns from the seemingly dead Wonder Man; one of the few things A:UTS tried to do right). JL/U didn't have every founding member appear in every episode and often had guest stints from B and C listers (B'WANNA BEAST for F's sake got an entire episode). There were tons of geek references in FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH, which Yost co-wrote.

There's potential here, even if it takes getting past some Disney HERCULES esque exaggerated character models.

 

[RAMORE]

I agree withthe founding members thing my biggest issue with alot of these shows is randomly deaging characters and changing continutiy ie. xmen evolution.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Doesn't look like that's the case here.

 

[RAMORE]

Hopefully Corp...hopefully.