The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BobJM]

I think it started to slosh in the second half. The key to Gotham's corruption and the Riddler plot veered off the rails. Felt like they were mimicking beats from the Nolan trilogy but everything is out of sync.

Slosh may be a harsher word than I’d use, but I would agree in the sense that the Riddler story lost steam. Especially when he turned himself in. It felt like the story concluded there, and then we could be treated to this great psychological confrontation at Arkham but we instead shift to Gotham Square Garden completely away from Edward Nashton in his cell.

The idea that this Riddler‘movement’ had become bigger than Nashton is a cool idea, we see shades of it earlier going all the way back to the protests outside the mayor’s memorial service at City Hall. but because they’re nameless / random, there’s less of emotional weight to conclude this film. Idk, maybe if the center scoreboard had a prerecorded Riddler message so we could at least hear Dano’s voice delivering a chilling final speech against the city while Batman roids out to save Selina and Gotham.

 

[weezerspider]

Am I the only one who had a hard time following the Batmobile/Penguin chase?

It was hard to grasp the routes taken, the sense of location of the vehicles at different points and couldn't tell where they were going.

Yeah, I felt the car chase was the only moment of the film that felt a little poorly directed. There is little spatial clarity or perspective. He holds a lot on close ups of Penguin and Batman, I suppose to focus more on the characters during this climatic moment, but I don’t think it works. I think the hand to hand combat sequences were really well directed and he intentionally holds on wider shots for those, so I’m not sure of his reasoning behind so many close ups in the chase because it’s directly against the mindset off the other action sequences.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

This movie is a LOT to unpack. Thirty minutes into the movie i was saying to myself, “this is masterful.” This monster grabs you right away and if your a fan of film noir like me its extra potent (the hard boiled narration, chef’s kiss).

I will admit, theres some things that bothered me and…i was a BIT letdown by the third act. Lets just say, much like my favorite film noirs, i was expecting more of a mindblowing twist to the whole mystery as the film seemed to be building up to a huge revelation and i kept waiting and waiting and anticipating it and then…oh Ridder was to destroy the city…ok I guess? And i know that sounds hyperbolic and harsh but the payoff to the whole mystery didnt knock my socks off like i was hoping.

BUT Reeves undoubtedly made an expertly crafted film that i feel was almost perfect and didnt quite stick the landing IMO. But what he got right he got SO SO right. A second viewing is a must, i definitely missed a lot of nuances and plot details that I’m looking forward to examining.

I had the exact same problem. I thought this film was building up to a Sherlock Holmes style twist where you realize the answers were in front of us the whole time and the reveal of what’s happening is mindblowing. Unfortunately, it never got there.


My other problem is the murders and Riddlers final plan (which comes out of nowhere) are separate from one another. And honestly the reasoning behind his final plan doesn’t make sense to me.


When you consider how long this film has been in development I don’t quite understand why the final act had these issues. It seemed to me, between the delays and long preproduction, that Reeves had plenty of time to iron out all the kinks of this script.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I think a stronger presence for Falcone in the beginning would have helped make the reveal that he’s the rat and he’s basically the mayor of Gotham more impactful.

Him not showing up until Selina spots him in the club I think is a mistake. I get he’s a recluse but maybe news footage or some such.

Can agree, here.

Not even sure what Falcone being a recluse adds to his story or character. We hear it said about him, but we don't see him acting as such.

He doesn't seem like a reclusive type, either. He's very low-key charismatic.

 

[TheVileOne]

Slosh may be a harsher word than I’d use, but I would agree in the sense that the Riddler story lost steam. Especially when he turned himself in. It felt like the story concluded there, and then we could be treated to this great psychological confrontation at Arkham but we instead shift to Gotham Square Garden completely away from Edward Nashton in his cell.

The idea that this Riddler‘movement’ had become bigger than Nashton is a cool idea, we see shades of it earlier going all the way back to the protests outside the mayor’s memorial service at City Hall. but because they’re nameless / random, there’s less of emotional weight to conclude this film. Idk, maybe if the center scoreboard had a prerecorded Riddler message so we could at least hear Dano’s voice delivering a chilling final speech against the city while Batman roids out to save Selina and Gotham.

The mobster stuff started feeling a lot like Daredevil Netflix. The film leaned so hard into it, that I felt deflated when it all got kind of tossed aside.

"OK we're done with the gangster plot. Back to Riddler."

Not to mention the reveal was just way too obvious. Batman is a detective, yet he's a step behind at every turn, and he figures out everything too late.

 

[FunkMiller]

We've actually had some truly terrible floods here in Australia over the last week. Lots of footage of people's homes completely underwater, sitting on their roof waiting to be rescued etc.

So that whole sequence I felt hit particularly hard in the cinema I was in.

Yeah, I’m up in Cairns watching the news unfold, and watching the movie did make me wince a little thinking how the guys down south might feel about it.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Yeah, I felt the car chase was the only moment of the film that felt a little poorly directed. There is little spatial clarity or perspective. He holds a lot on close ups of Penguin and Batman, I suppose to focus more on the characters during this climatic moment, but I don’t think it works.

Agreed on all accounts.

Also, the stakes felt rather low. He's chasing Penguin because he...wants to talk to him.

Which Penguin did so in the club earlier without much hostility.

It just didn't feel like that chase had any stakes or urgency.

 

[weezerspider]

Agreed on all accounts.

Also, the stakes felt rather low. He's chasing Penguin because he...wants to talk to him.

Which Penguin did so in the club earlier without much hostility.

It just didn't feel like that chase had any stakes or urgency.

I probably will get to ask Reeves a question about the film at a DGA event next month. I am going to ask to explain his thought process behind covering the chase so claustrophobically. It’s a bold and interesting choice, which I admire, but bold choices sometimes come up a empty and, like I said, I just don’t think it quite works.

 

[TheVileOne]

I probably will get to ask Reeves a question about the film at a DGA event next month. I am going to ask to explain his thought process behind covering the chase so claustrophobically. It’s a bold and interesting choice, which I admire, but bold choices sometimes come up a empty and, like I said, I just don’t think it quite works.

A lot of the film looked like it was shot very close and tight. It did raise the intensity and intimacy at times.

 

[RaimiWebSpidey]

The entire Ridler plot worked for me. Loved how Bruce thought Ridler had his identify figured out, which is why he messed up and didn't fully uncover the plan initially in fear for having his identify uncovered. In the end Riddler actually had no idea who he was.

 

[The Riddler]

It's a great movie, but far from perfect. I wasn't a big fan of this Bruce...I understand the deliberate story choice, but I felt he wasn't dynamic enough as a character and was just kind of unreactive and mopey at times. Hopefully the ending marks a shift in his character...it's a character arc I can appreciate even if I didn't always enjoy the character getting there. Luckily, Pattinson's Batman is probably the best live action Batman -- a real detective who is still learning how to be Batman. I would love to see this Bruce and Batman be more fully formed in the sequel. I thought Catwoman and Penguin were pretty great. I love Dano, but I think his Riddler at times came off a little over the top. If I were Reeves, I would have had him play it a little less unstable, and a little more nerdy/in control but unhinged in his intent. The plot is pretty good, but there's some clumsy execution. The reveal about Bruce's dad is undermined so quickly by Alfred that it kind of loses any impact. Additionally, Riddler's plot makes sense until it doesn't so much. I'm not sure where I place this amongst the Batman movies, but it's somewhere up there in the top 3. The action and fight choreography was easily the best of any Batman film, and this just felt truest to the essence of the character. The way it ends really sets up what could be a fantastic sequel after the groundwork that was set here.

 

[The Riddler]

The entire Ridler plot worked for me. Loved how Bruce thought Ridler had his identify figured out, which is why he messed up and didn't fully uncover the plan initially in fear for having his identify uncovered. In the end Riddler actually had no idea who he was.

Yes, this part made a lot of sense and was a nice fake out. He couldn't stop the plan because he thought he was found out.

 

[Nardz937]

 

[DeadlyWest]

This scene man...

As someone who's wanted to see the character who gave me hope in the darkest period of my life on the big screen, truly realized, for the past decade, this scene was ****ing everything.

 

[SpideyZERO]

Not to mention the reveal was just way too obvious. Batman is a detective, yet he's a step behind at every turn, and he figures out everything too late.

My biggest problem with the movie is they play the "Batman outsmarted and too late" card again. Batman media (comics, games) like to do this a lot. Batman showed his investigation skills, but he failed to solve the case in any meaningful manners. Riddler was ahead of Batman all the way. I was waiting for some sort of brilliant deduction scene in which he put every pieces together but it never came.

And if Joker is going to be a major part of the sequel, Batman will be outsmarted...again.

 

[Boom]

He couldn't stop the plan because he thought he was found out.

I must have missed something. How so?

 

[DeadlyWest]

I must have missed something. How so?

My assumption was that he thought Riddler was gonna reveal Bruce's identity and have him arrested, essentially. It's why he visibly gets shaken when Riddler starts chanting "Bruce Wayne" in Arkham, he thinks that's his confession which he's said while being recorded. Instead, the twist is that he doesn't know and his confession is that he's gonna flood the city

 

[Luke995]

What about creating a spoiler thread about theories on hints for the sequel?

 

[Gothamsknight]

One scene that I haven't really seen people mention is when Bruce goes up to Alfred in Wayne tower while he's working out a riddler puzzle. I LOVED that scene just because of how simple it is. I hope we get more of that in a sequel!

 

[antsman41]

Selina Kyle mentioning Bludhaven was really cool but I also noticed on the news cast that there's apparently an "Old Gotham" and Blackgate prison is on an island...which I can see some major sequel setting stuff.

Reeves is totally using the Rucka NML map for Gotham.

 

[Gothamsknight]

It's been years since I've read no man's land so I think a reread is in order.

Also, Im convinced Hush will probabaly show up at some point in the trilogy.

 

[BattleAngel]

It's been years since I've read no man's land so I think a reread is in order.

Also, Im convinced Hush will probabaly show up at some point in the trilogy.

highly doubt it. This seemed to be their nod to the Hush arc. To the point where during the Wayne/Arkham expose he says hush money many times and the whole screen fills with the word HUSH in Riddler’s handwriting. I guess it could be a blatant nod to Hush coming down the road but more likely a way of folding some of those beats into Riddler’s story here.

 

[titansupes]

Favourite little moments:

- Alfred helping with the cyphers.
- Batman ambushing Catwoman in the Mayor's house "You're good at that."
- Alfred giving Bruce the cufflinks he was wearing.
- Batman thinking he's about to be exposed, and his goodbye to Gordon is simply "You're a good cop."
- Was Dory her name? I smiled when she showed up, just because I thought she was a nod to Aunt Harriet.
- Just the fact Gordon kept calling him "man" casually.
- The Penguin waddle.
- Bruce ****ting himself a bit when he got to the ledge on police HQ.
- Batman swinging on a batline rather than being mechanically hoisted or ziplining.
- The Shakespeare bust in the study.
- "I got him!"
"I can see that."

 

[Web-Head]

It's been years since I've read no man's land so I think a reread is in order.

Also, Im convinced Hush will probabaly show up at some point in the trilogy.

Yeah I was surprised to see nobody else really talking about that nod/Easter egg

 

[dhandler01]

Agreed on all accounts.

Also, the stakes felt rather low. He's chasing Penguin because he...wants to talk to him.

Which Penguin did so in the club earlier without much hostility.

It just didn't feel like that chase had any stakes or urgency.

The chase was after the firefight...Penguin fled that is why Batman chased him. Originally he and Gordon were gonna take him until Selina showed up and then everything went sideways.