The Bourne Legacy - Part 1

[Octoberist]

People lie and go back in their word in the movie business all the time. It's like clockwork.

Also, Matt Damon has never 100% said he would NEVER return to the franchise. In fact, when Legacy was getting made sounded like he wanted to be involved and basically said Universal never made him an offer. All of his talk sounded like, "Hey Univeral, cut the check!"

Like George Lucas who, for years, have gone back and forth, confirming and denying the existence of a trilogy after the original Star Wars films.

 

[chamber-music]

Damon has said he would of done Bourne Legacy but he wanted to read a finished script before signing on because when he they were making Bourne Ultimatum Universal studio's gave franchise screenwriter and director of Legacy Tony Gilroy a big money contract to turn in one draft of the Script which was unreadable.

Damn felt Universal and Gilroy left him and Greengrass in chaos. Greengrass pretty much had to turn Gilroy's weak draft into the third film.

Damon said in an interview with GQ

"It's really the studio’s fault for putting themselves in that position," Damon tells GQ. "I don't blame Tony for taking a boatload of money and handing in what he handed in. It’s just that it was unreadable. This is a career-ender. I mean, I could put this thing up on eBay and it would be game over for that dude. It's terrible. It's really embarrassing. He was having a go, basically, and he took his money and left."

"If I didn't respect him and appreciate his talent, then I really wouldn't have cared," Damon said, referring to Gilroy.

"Even though I don't have anything to do with it," he said. "Selfishly, it’s bad for me if that movie doesn't do well."

Gilroy and Greengrass don't get along too well also with the two of them having a contrast in styles.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/matt-damon-bourne-identity-tony-gilroy-275137

 

[TheVileOne]

I read Gilroy's draft of the film, and while I don't think it's as bad as Damon says, I understand what he's talking about. When I mean as bad as he says, Damon has appeared in films based on worse scripts .

Greengrass and whatever other writers worked on it took that script and made it into this lean mean spy thriller machine.

Also, I recall when Ultimatum came out he said he'd probably want to do another Bourne film when the characters was like 10 years older. I think this was in Entertainment Weekly. Well it's about that timeframe now.

Look guys. No one likes Aaron Cross. Legacy was a misfire. Now Universal is quietly moving away from Aaron Cross and trying to bring back Damon.

People see Damon as Jason Bourne. That's what they want to go to a Bourne movie for. They don't want all these lame tertiary characters.

Also the original trilogies had this documentary style and gritty realism. Legacy abandoned that for sci-fi nonsense that made no sense and did not work at all.

And also to be honest, I find the script for Legacy worse than Gilroy's draft for Ultimatum.

 

[TheVileOne]

Damon has said he would of done Bourne Legacy but he wanted to read a finished script before signing on because when he they were making Bourne Ultimatum Universal studio's gave franchise screenwriter and director of Legacy Tony Gilroy a big money contract to turn in one draft of the Script which was unreadable.

Damn felt Universal and Gilroy left him and Greengrass in chaos. Greengrass pretty much had to turn Gilroy's weak draft into the third film.

Damon said in an interview with GQ



Gilroy and Greengrass don't get along too well also with the two of them having a contrast in styles.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/matt-damon-bourne-identity-tony-gilroy-275137

Thanks for this article BTW. Here is my favorite part:

Damon says he fully expects to return to Bourne. "I think if [Bourne Legacy] doesn't work, we can just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen, and that'd be fine," he says. "But I expect that it will work and only help us if we did another one, which I'd love to do."

Maybe Damon is getting a bit more sentimental now that he's older. I think he sees that this is his meal ticket, basically superhero franchise character. It's a character he can return to, get a big check, and give him freedom to do his more personal projects whenever.

However, he also seems to be a very blunt and overly honest guy and he's been doing so all throughout his career. Harvey Weinstein, who he apparently considers a friend is someone he's even quoted as calling a "scorpion."

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

And Legacy didn't work at all IMHO. I hope to god they end up ignoring it.

 

[TheVileOne]

No it didn't work. Just like when Universal did that Tokyo Drift garbage. And then they brought back Diesel, Walker, Brewster, and Rodriguez back to Fast and Furious and suddenly it found new life again.

I mean does it ever work when franchises try to do that? A lot of bad sequels trying to be in the world as the other movies just with different characters? And no MCU doesn't count.

I also said it wasn't going to work. Yet everyone seemed to go along with it and thought it would be fine.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I don't believe these random spin-offs ever work so it is funny that they keep trying them.

I'm pretty sure I was with you in the naysayers camp. To me Damon and Greengrass Are the Bourne franchise. Certainly Greengrass was not the director of the original but he is more closely associated with the franchise than Doug Liman.

 

[Silvermoon]

Look guys. No one likes Aaron Cross.

I get that you (and others) didn't like the movie... fine...that's your opinion and I have no problem with that. But to say "No one" likes Aaron Cross? Well gee, guess me and my family are "no one" now because guess what, WE LIKE HIM Speak for yourself, not everyone please.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't believe these random spin-offs ever work so it is funny that they keep trying them.

I'm pretty sure I was with you in the naysayers camp. To me Damon and Greengrass Are the Bourne franchise. Certainly Greengrass was not the director of the original but he is more closely associated with the franchise than Doug Liman.

How can you leave Franka out?

I get that you (and others) didn't like the movie... fine...that's your opinion and I have no problem with that. But to say "No one" likes Aaron Cross? Well gee, guess me and my family are "no one" now because guess what, WE LIKE HIM Speak for yourself, not everyone please.

Is it hyperbolic? Yes, but it is the point. It is clearly the general public's view. The box office, reviews and the desire for the return of Bourne proves it.

 

[Loki882]

No, it just means that the last movie was flawed. Not that there's something fundamentally wrong with the character. Personally I'd just split the difference and do a Bourne/Cross team up movie.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, it just means that the last movie was flawed. Not that there's something fundamentally wrong with the character. Personally I'd just split the difference and do a Bourne/Cross team up movie.

There was something fundamentally wrong with the character and film. It was a retread of Bourne, done with a worse character and a worse script. The was nothing about Cross that made him worthwhile, especially when compared to Bourne.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

He takes pills to not be handicapable, I don't give a crap give me Jason Bourne again. Let Renner just do the Avengers and Gerald Ford Yeti Hunter or something.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He takes pills to not be handicapable, I don't give a crap give me Jason Bourne again. Let Renner just do the Avengers and Gerald Ford Yeti Hunter or something.

I actually am a fan of Hansel and Gretel. Then again, it features Gemma Arterton walking around in leather pants the majority of the time, so I probably can't be relied upon to give an accurate assessment on its creative merits. t:

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I actually am a fan of Hansel and Gretel. Then again, it features Gemma Arterton walking around in leather pants the majority of the time, so I probably can't be relied upon to give an accurate assessment on its creative merits. t:

Gemma Arterton in leather pants sounds like a difficult thing to pass up, the woman is a babe.

To be fair to H&G: Witch Hunters I haven't seen it so I cannot give an actual opinion of the film.

 

[TheVileOne]

I get that you (and others) didn't like the movie... fine...that's your opinion and I have no problem with that. But to say "No one" likes Aaron Cross? Well gee, guess me and my family are "no one" now because guess what, WE LIKE HIM Speak for yourself, not everyone please.

Listen man, it's really annoying when people do that. Yes I know you and your family like him and the movie. And you know what? That's fine. I'm glad the movie and the character worked for you.

But when I say that, I do not mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS PLANET. Obviously there are some people somewhere that probably liked Cross and Legacy. To each his own.

But it's annoying when someone says like, "ah that sucked no one liked it." And them someone has to be like "hey I liked it not everyone!" Look for the sake of this discussion we are talking about the future of this franchise.

Despite you and your family liking Cross and Legacy, the movie was a big disappointment for Universal. Case in point, Universal is now courting Damon and Greengrass to come back to the franchise after doing it without them failed.

Look at the last year. The talk has changed from bringing back Renner as Cross to bringing back Damon and Greengrass instead. Universal has already delayed the film and was UNWILLING to commit to a Renner-only sequel.

The movie was poorly received. It made only $113 million off of a $125 million budget. It was the worst reviewed movie of the entire franchise. No matter what way you look at it or try to defend it, that's a box office disappointment. That was a disappointment that was poorly received by audiences and critics alike. It's not like hardcore fans and critics trashed it but the movie still makes a $1 billion like Michael Bay movies. The movie did not perform as Universal hopes.

That is why the dialogue is literally changing before our eyes. The dialogue is moving away from the next chapter of Aaron Cross's journey to trying to bring back Damon as Bourne to repair the mess that Gilroy made of the franchise with Legacy.

Legacy literally undid everything from the Ultimatum. Ultimatum ended on this great, positive energetic note. Bourne implicated his tormentors and the people responsible for Treadstone and Black Briar. Pamela Landy, who became his ally, was given leverage against the CIA. Bourne survived and we know he's still out there in case we need him again someday. Well now that Legacy ruined the progress of the third film and undid everything that happened, we need Bourne to basically come back and repair the damage of Bourne 4.

 

[TheVileOne]

No, it just means that the last movie was flawed. Not that there's something fundamentally wrong with the character. Personally I'd just split the difference and do a Bourne/Cross team up movie.

There is a lot that was fundamentally flawed with the character. For starters, they use all this sci-fi nonsense for Cross that basically is far removed from the style the franchise had gone with before. It was like Ryan Reynolds being the narrator of Blade 3 and using all that type of Reynolds humor in the film. Didn't work for Blade 3.

 

[The Chris]

That's still what angered me the most. I loved how Ultimatum ended. Not many films have gave me such a high attitude while coming out of the theater. Legacy was the total opposite, in that it left me so angry I was speechless until going on a profane rant to a friend about it an hour later, and it felt so darn weak too. Yeah, we'll barely show the characters from the trilogy, but we'll just throw this in here because honestly Cross' story stinks. I love the tagline "There was never just one", and to this day I think "yeah, and you showed us probably the lamest of all of them!" I'm a Jeremy Renner fan too, but man Aaron Cross was so dull and boring. With his super pills I can call him Fake Captain America as much as I consider him Fake Bourne. Ugh, those darn pills. I was willing to give Legacy a shot purely because Gilroy was involved in the first three. Big mistake on my part.

 

[Warhammer]

I get that you (and others) didn't like the movie... fine...that's your opinion and I have no problem with that. But to say "No one" likes Aaron Cross? Well gee, guess me and my family are "no one" now because guess what, WE LIKE HIM Speak for yourself, not everyone please.

Are you 12?

 

[Warhammer]

That's still what angered me the most. I loved how Ultimatum ended. Not many films have gave me such a high attitude while coming out of the theater. Legacy was the total opposite, in that it left me so angry I was speechless until going on a profane rant to a friend about it an hour later, and it felt so darn weak too. Yeah, we'll barely show the characters from the trilogy, but we'll just throw this in here because honestly Cross' story stinks. I love the tagline "There was never just one", and to this day I think "yeah, and you showed us probably the lamest of all of them!" I'm a Jeremy Renner fan too, but man Aaron Cross was so dull and boring. With his super pills I can call him Fake Captain America as much as I consider him Fake Bourne. Ugh, those darn pills. I was willing to give Legacy a shot purely because Gilroy was involved in the first three. Big mistake on my part.

For me, the worst part of the film is that from the beginning to the end, nothing really gets accomplished. The whole film was about a junkie named Aaron Cross needing his fix while some random people name drop Jason Bourne to remind the audience that this takes place in the same universe.

How did a film like that get greenlit? I don't understand.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

There is a lot that was fundamentally flawed with the character. For starters, they use all this sci-fi nonsense for Cross that basically is far removed from the style the franchise had gone with before. It was like Ryan Reynolds being the narrator of Blade 3 and using all that type of Reynolds humor in the film. Didn't work for Blade 3.

Exactly.

Turning the Bourne series sci fi just reaked of Universal's Superhero envy. The pills were an utterly jarring and embarrassingly stupid addition to the series.

 

[TheVileOne]

For me, the worst part of the film is that from the beginning to the end, nothing really gets accomplished. The whole film was about a junkie named Aaron Cross needing his fix while some random people name drop Jason Bourne to remind the audience that this takes place in the same universe.

How did a film like that get greenlit? I don't understand.

Look, Jason Bourne was a huge franchise for Universal. That's how it got greenlit. They probably saw it as their James Bond. And I imagine they figured they can keep it going like James Bond, except instead of recasting Bourne, just use a new character and expand the world. I mean it's a huge franchise, and any studio if they have a franchise like this wants to milk for absolutely all it is worth until it is dead. And then when it is dead...they will reboot it

However, doing a spinoff with a NEW lead usually ends in failure. Speed 2. XXX 2. Etc. Now I realize those were only second movies from really successful first movies. But then look at Tokyo Drift. And then look at the later Fast Movies. Vin Diesel is basically the center of the franchise now.

 

[Silvermoon]

Are you 12?

Was that really necessary?

No I'm not. People speaking in absolutes just tends to piss me off.

Edit: Look, I'm sorry, I don't want this to turn into an argument or a fight. Yes I understand that the future of the Legacy side of the franchise is in jeopardy, I understand that a lot (and quite possibly/likely the majority) of people are perfectly fine with it not continuing and bringing back Bourne only. If it doesn't continue, well, there's nothing I can do about it - I did what I could when the movie came out - I saw the movie (more than once in the theater) and bought it on blu-ray & DVD. Was it a disappointment financially? Yes - I wouldn't call it a flop (it did double it's production budget according to box-office mojo, and as far as I'm aware that's still kind of the 'general rule of thumb' when it comes to if something flops or not). Could the story have been tightened up? Sure. But I still enjoyed it.

Like I said, I just don't like it when people speak in absolutes - it's been a pet peeve of mine for a really long time when people come across as if they're trying to speak for me. If you had said "many" or "the majority" of people don't like Aaron Cross, I wouldn't have a problem with that, because you're at least acknowledging that some people have a different opinion than yours.

Anywho, I'm willing to agree to disagree. As I said earlier, I hope they don't completely shelve the Legacy sequel - I'd be happy to see both more Cross and more Bourne (I don't see a reason why both can't be done) and I'd also be happy to see a possible team-up between them. But what happens, happens. I've said what I'm going to say on this.

 

[Warhammer]

Yeah, kinda. Stop getting so mad, man. It's unnecessary. It's alright.

 

[tamron]

Matt Damon confirms his and Greengrass' return to Bourne.

"Yes, next year," Damon responded to E! News when asked for clarification. "It'll be in 2016 when the movie will actually come out. [Director] Paul Greengrass is going to do another one and that's all I ever said. I just needed him to say yes."

http://www.eonline.com/news/596274/matt-damon-confirms-he-s-reprising-his-role-as-jason-bourne

 

[Hunter Rider]

So is the Just Lin Bourne movie canned?