The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread

[C Prometheus]

Only Kal-El has been seemingly confirmed. The only thing that hasn’t been confirmed is whether they will go with classic Clark Kent civilian identity, or go with Calvin. I actually think it’s likely Coates will want to create an entirely new civilian identity for his version of Kal-El.

I suspect it'll be Clark, as I struggle to think of why the article would otherwise mention Coates seeking to draw back to the original Superman comics... but admittedly I can't disagree that I could also see Coates inventing a new civilian identity for this version of Kal-El too.

The article also said this:

That reads as Clark Kent to me, seeing as Val Zod and Calvin Ellis have only existed within the last 15 years.

Yeah, it also makes me wonder if we'll be seeing more focus on Clark as a reporter? Admittedly I'm pretty green to the early comics, so I'm not sure what all is present there compared to modern Superman comics, but the thing that comes to mind is just the original premise of a man hiding in plain sight as a journalist to get closer to the danger and investigate crimes and corruption. That'd be particularly potent with Clark being Black in this iteration.

As an aside, I'm really hoping WB tap Shaka King to direct this. Dude has a ton of potential and I'd wager he'd probably have a pass on Coates' script too to polish things up if he were to helm the film.

 

[Maze]

What makes you think that? The article did state that Coates was crafting a Kal-El in vein of the "original comics". That coupled with the period piece aspect, leads me to believe this could be an adaptation of Action Comics issue number #1

View attachment 45522

Which is honestly the perfect way to approach a Black Superman.

i want to see this movie, right now.

 

[Frodo]

On Frodo's post I think a lot of the divided reaction could have been avoided and is predicated on the way the last version of the character has been treated. Fans want to see the story of Snyder and Cavill's superman continue and end properly. If that happened or were to happen in parallel I generally think the majority of fans who are not into this reboot now, would be onboard.

I've gotta disagree with you there in terms of which fans we're talking about. Fans aren't a monolith to be sure, and I'm sure there are Snyder fans who wanted Cavill's Superman to get his due, and they may have been mad if they had rebooted Superman with a white or a Black actor regardless.

But the reality is, alot of the Fans who are outraged now still wouldn't have liked a Black Superman film regardless ,because , as they've said themselves , they believe only a White Actor should play that part and carry that mantle. That's the reality. They've said it themselves and they're saying it now.

If it were another young White actor playing the part reboot, those fans wouldn't have been outraged. Annoyed perhaps. Skeptical maybe. But the anger , no. So that issue isn't even debatable if we're talking about why alot of those fans are mad. They've been clear, "Superman is white, and only a white actor can play the role, full stop". I take them at their word.

Cavill is an excuse that alot of them are using now, given that alot of those same people screamed "Not My Superman" during MOS and BvS days. It seems to me, its only now that we're getting a Black Superman, they suddenly want Cavill back ,and are complaining he didn't get a fair shot. But lets be honest , if even if WB decides to make another Cavill led Superman in addition to a Black Superman film , those same fans will still be angry that a Black actor may play Kal El . Again, they've said themselves , Kal El can't be White. They've made their position clear.

So no, I don't believe the majority of fans would be on board with a Black Superman film if WB did things "The Right Way". There's a large segment of fandom who believes that Only White actors should play White characters, and regardless of whether this film was a upcoming reboot or a reboot in 10 years , they still would have been outraged. That's the truth.

If anything, I'm surprised that there seems to be a 50/50 divide in which alot of fans are open to a Black Superman film.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

On top of everything else: Look, this is how it is going to be going forward. Characters are going to be changed and reinterpreted in this fashion from here on out - that's simply the way the winds of change are blowing. If you find choices like this deeply upsetting then the future of these franchises is going to be extremely rough for you.

It's going to be amazing to see how people react if this movie is actually politically provocative seeing as apparently people's idea of what "political" films are consists of milquetoast light feminism like Captain Marvel or the fairly benign, basic messages about growth and progress in The Last Jedi.

 

[Manny Moo]

I've gotta disagree with you there in terms of which fans we're talking about. Fans aren't a monolith to be sure, and I'm sure there are Snyder fans who wanted Cavill's Superman to get his due, and they may have been mad if they had rebooted Superman with a white or a Black actor regardless.

But the reality is, alot of the Fans who are outraged now still wouldn't have liked a Black Superman film regardless ,because , as they've said themselves , they believe only a White Actor should play that part and carry that mantle. That's the reality. They've said it themselves and they're saying it now.

If it were another young White actor playing the part reboot, those fans wouldn't have been outraged. Annoyed perhaps. Skeptical maybe. But the anger , no. So that issue isn't even debatable if we're talking about why alot of those fans are mad. They've been clear, "Superman is white, and only a white actor can play the role, full stop". I take them at their word.

Cavill is an excuse that alot of them are using now, given that alot of those same people screamed "Not My Superman" during MOS and BvS days. It seems to me, its only now that we're getting a Black Superman, they suddenly want Cavill back ,and are complaining he didn't get a fair shot. But lets be honest , if even if WB decides to make another Cavill led Superman in addition to a Black Superman film , those same fans will still be angry that a Black actor may play Kal El . Again, they've said themselves , Kal El can't be White. They've made their position clear.

So no, I don't believe the majority of fans would be on board with a Black Superman film if WB did things "The Right Way". There's a large segment of fandom who believes that Only White actors should play White characters, and regardless of whether this film was a upcoming reboot or a reboot in 10 years , they still would have been outraged. That's the truth.

If anything, I'm surprised that there seems to be a 50/50 divide in which alot of fans are open to a Black Superman film.

Fair enough mate. I can see your argument here and I do concede that what you are saying could be true. I am not in the US, so perhaps I see things differently. but in Europe most of the people I know who are DC fans are just upset about Cavill and the way Warner are making these decisions, the motivations etc. I am not claiming they are representative or a monolith. I don't speak for anyone except myself here and my belief based on the things ive chatted about with mates.

 

[AverageMan]

Don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see them do something a bit different and not have Lois as the love interest. Either use Lana or develop an entirely new character.

 

[dhandler01]

Its a strong possibility that there will be disinterest but I'm not so sure its entirely going to be along racial lines. Black Panther had an entire pre-existing mythos based around a powerful African country, culture and characters. If this is just a straight up traditional Clark Kent swap out, then this reboot has none of that going for it. The race switching looks to me like a very thinly veiled effort to generate chatter and revenue which will be sold as some kind of empowerment. Considering what happened with ZSJL Green Lantern, Ray Fisher, and all the other POC characters that rings a little hollow and makes me cynical of the motivations. I am not black so I can't speak on the excitement that must exist in that community for finally having a black Superman on screen. It sucks not to be more excited for this as a DC fan.

On Frodo's post I think a lot of the divided reaction could have been avoided and is predicated on the way the last version of the character has been treated. Fans want to see the story of Snyder and Cavill's superman continue and end properly. If that happened or were to happen in parallel I generally think the majority of fans who are not into this reboot now, would be onboard. The prospect of a multiverse of Supermen is really a cool idea. In terms of a solo movie series, whatever iteration of the character they go with is an alien, and I think it would be very interesting to see a Superman story juxta positioned between that and the African American experience. A character representing hope through adversity and who still possesses a love for humanity. That's freaking inspiring. I am really bummed the way this is being done. Its gonna steal a really cool moment in cultural and cinematic history of its full potential.

Considering even Snyder seemed disinterested with Cavill as Superman I highly doubt anyone outside the #RestoretheSnyderverse crowd cares anymore. Cavill isn't coming back and why should he? Even the director he liked basically did him dirty. In a 4.5 hour film that was billed as the end of the MOS Trilogy he is in like 15 minutes and maybe has a paragraph of dialogue. You can pretend that is on WB but if you want to know why Cavill never was "treated" well there is way more people to blame than EVIL WB!11!1

I love how everyone thinks they know how this film is going to be written, the "period" it will be in and the vision the unhired director will have. Can you all tell me the lotto numbers cause I have a kitchen remodel and some vacations that need paying off.

I also love how this is ONLY being done for tokenism. It can't be because people like MBJ and Coates have championed it...nope it is only because WB is afraid the Ray Fisher story (which went nowhere) makes them look racist. As I said in the Lounge of Justice will every POC in Star Wars from now on only be Di$ney trying to cover up their racism too since they did literally every POC wrong since they started making Star Wars? I love cynicism as much as the next man but is it not possible that they got a good pitch and went with it and also thought it would make great headlines?

Most of these convos are the same ones that happened before WW too except there it was women and not POC so it isn't surprising...just makes me laugh because I don't think people get the irony of some of the things they say.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

If we're talking about our personal bubbles perspectives on this I don't know anyone who cares about Henry Cavill as Superman. Obviously the Snyder Cut was reasonably successful but his popularity feels blown out of proportion by the internet. I don't think he's made any real impact with the GA and a solid 50% (I'm being generous with that) of Superman fans despise the Snyderverse Superman.

There is so, so much DC film drama on the internet that it radically clouds people's perceptions of how the GA feels about these movies, actors and characters.

 

[dhandler01]

Does black superman have any lore and enemies to fight in the comics?

Will this movie be made on the basis of nothing more than superman being black?

I'd would rather see a movie about Steel. Guy inspired by Superman creates his own Iron Man-style armor.

Can't he fight the same villains? He is still friggin Superman! Is Black Superman not allowed to stop Lex's schemes or beat up Metallo? Does Brainiac not exist in a world with a Black Superman? What do superman's villains have to do with his skin color?

 

[dhandler01]

I just don’t want this movie to be 2 hours of white people acting racist toward Clark/Superman. I watch movies for escapism and not for something that I can easily watch on CNN. It really depends on the execution of this. What they should do is celebrate and honor Black culture, like Black Panther did so well at, rather than make people feel bad about themselves.

Absolutely. This film can't just be "Black Superman Proves White People Bad". (though we know some will say that regardless) You can show the warts in society with demonizing everyone. Superman isn't saving the day to prove how great Blacks are, he is doing it cause it is the right thing to do. He should be a Jackie Robinson style figure.

 

[dhandler01]

If we're talking about our personal bubbles perspectives on this I don't know anyone who cares about Henry Cavill as Superman. Obviously the Snyder Cut was reasonably successful but his popularity feels blown out of proportion by the internet. I don't think he's made any real impact with the GA and a solid 50% (I'm being generous with that) of Superman fans despise the Snyderverse Superman.

There is so, so much DC film drama on the internet that it radically clouds people's perceptions of how the GA feels about these movies, actors and characters.

I love the Snyder Cut...I am literally the only person I know who watched all of it and my friends watch pretty much everything. In fact, I have never had a full conversation with anyone about it. They care so little they don't even really mock it or ask if I watched it.

The Snyderverse bubble is crazy. Outside of religion and politics I have never seen anything like it.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

Can't he fight the same villains? He is still friggin Superman! Is Black Superman not allowed to stop Lex's schemes or beat up Metallo? Does Brainiac not exist in a world with a Black Superman? What do superman's villains have to do with his skin color?

You missed the point.

 

[dhandler01]

You missed the point.

Then explain the point because it seems like you were asking if "Black Superman" had his own villains. My point is he doesn't need his own villains.

 

[Manny Moo]

Considering even Snyder seemed disinterested with Cavill as Superman I highly doubt anyone outside the #RestoretheSnyderverse crowd cares anymore. Cavill isn't coming back and why should he? Even the director he liked basically did him dirty. In a 4.5 hour film that was billed as the end of the MOS Trilogy he is in like 15 minutes and maybe has a paragraph of dialogue. You can pretend that is on WB but if you want to know why Cavill never was "treated" well there is way more people to blame than EVIL WB!11!1

I love how everyone thinks they know how this film is going to be written, the "period" it will be in and the vision the unhired director will have. Can you all tell me the lotto numbers cause I have a kitchen remodel and some vacations that need paying off.

I also love how this is ONLY being done for tokenism. It can't be because people like MBJ and Coates have championed it...nope it is only because WB is afraid the Ray Fisher story (which went nowhere) makes them look racist. As I said in the Lounge of Justice will every POC in Star Wars from now on only be Di$ney trying to cover up their racism too since they did literally every POC wrong since they started making Star Wars? I love cynicism as much as the next man but is it not possible that they got a good pitch and went with it and also thought it would make great headlines?

Most of these convos are the same ones that happened before WW too except there it was women and not POC so it isn't surprising...just makes me laugh because I don't think people get the irony of some of the things they say.

I am not pretending to know anything, just offering an opinion. that's all there is to it boss. My opinion is based on observation. But yeah, I could be wrong, for sure. I'm basing my judgment of fans reactions based on a very small subset of fans in my own bubble, its true. so point taken there.

It might be a similar conversation to the one before WW but its not the same one so treating it as such is a little bit of a strawman argument here. I am of the view that this is being done as a calculated move to generate buzz and revenue rather than an exceptional pitch. After all the idea of a Black Superman has been around for years. Add to that the timings of the announcements around it and it very much seems reactive and defensive, rather than creative in my view. But hey, that's just my opinion. I never said WB was evil, but they have done some stupid crap the past few years and put themselves in this position, so I think my opinion of them is based on what I have seen on screen and read rather than some pretense of knowing their mindset. I just happen to think its more likely to be a way to make noise and money.

I believe Cavill had a bigger story in Snyder's arc, I don't think he was done dirty but the arc is incomplete. I could be wrong but the storyboards for the JL sequels suggest as much. Regardless, I am not speaking for Snyder or whatever or whoever the restore the Snyderverse crowd are you are referring to. Again, I don't think that's one group of people either.

I wish this was a genuine story driven, creative decision. and I think if it was more people would be on board.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

My point is that the black superman should have his own identity and history just like Miles Morales.

 

[Marvel united]

I just don’t want this movie to be 2 hours of white people acting racist toward Clark/Superman. I watch movies for escapism and not for something that I can easily watch on CNN. It really depends on the execution of this. What they should do is celebrate and honor Black culture, like Black Panther did so well at, rather than make people feel bad about themselves.

Making a film that reflects society as we live in it, is making people feel bad about themselves? Well damn, imagine how it feels to actually be black, and experience these things Trust me, it's not easy.

This is the reality of the AA experience, and it would incredibly disingenuous to tell this story, and not address the elephant in the room. I mean, look at the reaction we're seeing to even the idea of Superman being black. You can't escape this.

If all you're looking for is escapist entertainment, you can always watch a film like Toy Story. But not all movies are made to be completely divorced from the world we live in

 

[Legendver2]

The fact they released this info on Cavill's bday already tells me this whole POC idea is not genuine on WB's part.

 

[Legendver2]

Only Kal-El has been seemingly confirmed. The only thing that hasn’t been confirmed is whether they will go with the classic Clark Kent civilian identity, or go with Calvin. I actually think it’s likely Coates will want to create an entirely new civilian identity for his version of Kal-El.

So this is basically Halle Berry Catwoman, but with Superman...

 

[Legendver2]

Don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see them do something a bit different and not have Lois as the love interest. Either use Lana or develop an entirely new character.

Therein lies a lot of issues people have. If they go ahead and change THAT much, why not just make a Val-Zod film? They're going out of their way to say this is based on the OG comics, but with a race swap. Then you got peeps arguing whether he should use the Clark name or Calvin, as if Clark can be a black reporter, but if you use the name Calvin, he HAS to be the president. Fans here can't even make up their minds on what can or can't be changed lol.

 

[Prison Mike]

Ideally, the only change this movie should make is Clark Kent being black with everything else as the status quo. If you change too much just for the sake of it, nobody will take it seriously as a mainstream Superman and people will view it as an elseworld tale.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

My point is that the black superman should have his own identity and history just like Miles Morales.

But Miles also fought Peter's old villains both in the Ultimate and 616 comics. Calvin in the comics does go up against Lex and Brainiac but has gone up against other people. The problem is he hasn't been fleshed out like Miles has. On the other hand Val-Zod is and has gone up against many different characters.

 

[jetage]

My biggest concern with the idea for a new Superman movie it that is that there is no room for error, the last six attempts at a Superman movie since Superman 3 is that none of them have been successful, and most were failures, so another movie seen as a failure could hurt the franchise for a generation.

I have some knowledge of T N Coates writing, and I am not sure if he has the ability to write a financially successful film, though he could prove me wrong. He has the ability to write a good, interesting, thoughtful movie(maybe), but a blockbuster I think is beyond his abilities. Add to the the right wing echo machine will attack some of his quotes from the past, repeatedly, and it adds up to possibly being a disaster on a financial front.

Michael B Jordan is a very good actor, who is the "it" actor at this time, so that could help with ticket sales, but to what point and how much? An unknown could really make WB concerned, but would be the interesting way to go, at least for me.

But if this gets us beyond the Snyderverse and Cavill as Superman, sign me up, it could not be too soon

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

But Miles also fought Peter's old villains both in the Ultimate and 616 comics. Calvin in the comics does go up against Lex and Brainiac but has gone up against other people. The problem is he hasn't been fleshed out like Miles has. On the other hand Val-Zod has and has gone up against many different characters.

I know.

I just think that with Miles it turned out more organic, it has a lot to do with Peter and his world, friends, villains, but also has a little world of its own.

Besides, Miles is a complete character for me, he has his style, great costume and personality.
In the case of Val-Zod or Calvin Ellis, I don't see it, they take a lot of work for me to look at them as really original and interesing characters.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The fact they released this info on Cavill's bday already tells me this whole POC idea is not genuine on WB's part.

Yet they continue to happily work with the rest of Snyder’s JL cast that haven’t burnt bridges or left of their own accord - they’re even sticking with Ezra Miller who is a huge potential liability. The idea that they would do this out of personal spite to Cavill is super, super silly and conspiratorial.

WB are as unpleasant as any other big company but not every decision they make is an act of deliberate hostility toward Snyder and those in his orbit.

 

[Legendver2]

But Miles also fought Peter's old villains both in the Ultimate and 616 comics. Calvin in the comics does go up against Lex and Brainiac but has gone up against other people. The problem is he hasn't been fleshed out like Miles has. On the other hand Val-Zod has and has gone up against many different characters.

Val-Zod is basically Miles Morales to the Superman mythos. Both are inspired by the main version of the hero, but both have their own unique origin story and style. While Calvin is literally just an elseworlds race swap inspired by Obama, I think Val is way more complete and organic, and probably more interesting to make a story out of.