The Defenders The Defenders Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[kguillou]

Just finished, overall, loved it, guys:

I thought the ending was great and had a strong emotional punch to it, it was poignant to end it with Matt and Elektra.

BUT

I am quite let down with how they ended things with Dany. STILL no costume and Marco Ramirez set up the PERFECT opportunity to give him one. When Matt told Danny "protect my city" I thought for 100% SURE we were gonna end with a shot of Danny on the rooftop of Hell's Kitchen in Matt's original ninja suit but in his iron fist colors. But nooooooo, once again they wussed out on the costume and I really truly do not understand why Marvel is so scared to put Danny in one. It really is frustrating and I'm wondering at this point if they ever intend on giving Danny a suit. They have to know the fans want to see IRON FIST, right?

HOWEVER, as harsh as that sounds I had a blast with this series, these characters popped when they were onscreen together and there was some truly magical chemistry among the cast. I have much more thoughts, but besides my disappointment with Danny Rand's character as a whole, I thought they did an admirable job on putting a close on "The Hand" chapter of this universe and I'm excited to see where these characters (sans Danny) go next.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Oh dear...more complaining about costumes or lack thereof.

Anyway, I finished binging a few hours ago and I have to say, it was pretty damn awesome. I loved most of the dynamics but the ones that really stood out to me were Luke/Danny, Alexandra/Elektra and of course Matt and Elektra, the best love story on any tv show right now imo.

Most satisfying moment may just have been Misty getting her arm chopped off. Yes, very weird to say but Misty ain't Misty without her disability/bionic arm. I knew it was coming, even as some here insisted that it wouldn't happen. Heh...

 

[Nathan]

The more I think about it, the more I think they really dropped the ball with the Defenders. It started out good enough, but the ending just felt super lackluster and that "master plan" just made you think "That was it? Seriously?". All that buildup since the first season of Daredevil, and their master plan was to simply get some bones, so they could live long enough, to eventually return to K'un-Lun... And now Elektra is the big villain. And her big motivation is basically to do it for ***** and giggles?

And if the return to K'un-Lun was the end goal, what the heck stopped them from returning to the city in Iron Fist? Why didn't Gao tell the Hand to pack their things, because the immortal Iron Fist was running around in New York, leaving the gates to the city unprotected?

I probably have like 1% knowledge of the Iron Fist lore, but from what I found out with the help of google, is that even if the way to K'un-Lun is closed, because it only appears like once every 10 years, there are still other ways to get to it. That's what I thought they were maybe going with, once they started talking about the Iron Fist being the key. Now that would have been a nice showdown. The gates to K'un-Lun within reach, and our heroes have to stop the Hand, before they have a chance to invade the Heavenly City. But no, they just stopped them from stealing Dragon fossils.

There was just so much wasted potential. It would have been an awesome finale, had there been a gate to K'un-Lun at the bottom of the pit, with Elektra as the "Black Sky", who serves as a vessel for the Beast, to conquer the city, with our 4 heroes leading the Chaste (who I wouldn't have killed off at the start of the show) into battle against the army of the Hand. Ninja vs Ninja, 4 Heroes vs the Beast.

 

[TheVileOne]

Elektra basically said she went to K'un L'un to murder the Elders while Iron Fist was gone...so...what the heck?

Yeah The Hand's master plan was a total letdown.

I know they have a budget or something, but it should've been that they want to like bring K'un L'un to New York City which would destroy it or some such. Or they wanted to go to K'un L'un to stage a hostile takeover.

 

[psylockolussus]

Alexandra was weak, lol so Much for Sigourney being part of this. Now I understood why she was just playing a made up for TV character. She didn't make it to the final two episodes and is kind of an afterthought.

 

[Nathan]

I really did not care much for the 5 fingers of the Hand. Iron Fist and the Defenders had the least interesting villains. Even Madame Gao couldn't save the villains from being absolute lackluster.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

After watching the show: 8 episodes is too short to tell a story like that. all the side characters are getting one scene ore two interacting with side characters from other shows, which, tbh, often were the best scenes of the episodes, but that was it. all of them, from Trish to Foggy, were terribly wasted.

The episode count also led to a focus on one plot, when in most of the earlier shows the B and C plots were the most interesting (at least to me, others called it 'Netflix drag', I call them out for only focusing on the punchy fighty stuff and don't take them seriously), except maybe in Luke Cage, but that's because that was one terrible show with almost no highlights.

The lack of those minor plots hurt the show as awhole and made it seem smaller in scope than all of the solo series that came before.

Sigorney, well she was great with what she was given, which was nothing basically. Looking sad or threatening was all of the range the script writers apparently gave her.

I really hope the Hand is gone for good. All the potential the concept of "secret organization of criminal immortal ninjas" had could've had and I already lost count how often they dropped the ball on that in all of their Marvlix appearances. I also feel like the actress that played Gao got continually worse since her first appearance in DD S1 all the way to this, which is a shame.

All in all, not the best Marvlix show, but still above Luke Cage, which isn't saying much.

 

[TheVileOne]

What kind of master plan is digging a big hole to dig up bones?

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Meh, I thought the "master plan" was actually refreshing and a welcome change from the cliche villain plots and schemes we've grown used to in big teamup shows and movies. I do think Elektra turning on Alexandra and becoming the big bad was rather weak but Elektra herself was still pretty badass so it doesn't bother me much.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

What kind of master plan is digging a big hole to dig up bones?

I think the plan was digging a whole, chew on the bones and get even more immortal than they already were to get back to K'un-Lun which for some reason they had already destroyed.
Also, if that former IF just sealed the door and didn't left any security measures of the mystic kind behind, Rand certainly isn't the dumbest IF in history

 

[Nathan]

Meh, I thought the "master plan" was actually refreshing and a welcome change from the cliche villain plots and schemes we've grown used to in big teamup shows and movies. I do think Elektra turning on Alexandra and becoming the big bad was rather weak but Elektra herself was still pretty badass so it doesn't bother me much.

The whole thing just doesn't make a lot of sense, when their end goal is to return to the city, and they apparently had more than enough time to send Elektra over, to turn all of the K'un-Lun Elders into shish kebab.

 

[TheVileOne]

Refreshing is not the word I would use. It's just that they built this up over the course of several seasons and it was nothing special.

The Hand is just a fracking/oil-drilling corporation with slightly less morals than the average oil drilling company.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the plan was digging a whole, chew on the bones and get even more immortal than they already were to get back to K'un-Lun which for some reason they had already destroyed.
Also, if that former IF just sealed the door and didn't left any security measures of the mystic kind behind, Rand certainly isn't the dumbest IF in history

I'm so confused now. Is K'un L'un destroyed? Did Elektra really kill all the Elders? If the plan was to go back to K'un L'un, why didn't they just go while the gate was open and defenseless. I mean...Elektra did go there on their behalf and killed a bunch of people...so...what is going on?!

 

[Nathan]

It felt like they had a specific idea for the whole Hand plot, and it basically all fell apart with Iron Fist.

 

[TheVileOne]

Also what is the point of Black Sky and what's the significance of Black Sky? It just seemed anyone could've done what Elektra did with the right training and stuff.

 

[Nathan]

Nobu could have probably done what she did. That's also what this show was missing, a proper badass, other than Elektra. So we have these 5 outcast K'un-Lun Elders, who've lived for centuries. But other than Madam Gao who has her "force push", the rest of them are nothing special. Daredevil took two of them on. Had they been on Nobu's level, the 2 of them would have beat his ass.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Alexandra was weak, lol so Much for Sigourney being part of this. Now I understood why she was just playing a made up for TV character. She didn't make it to the final two episodes and is kind of an afterthought.

yeah, I mean, I get how the writers brainstormed her characters
- "You know, if they are called 'Hand' maybe they should have five leaders, like... fingers..."
- "Ooooh, I like that, the five fingers of the hand, that's deep."
- "...and all of them should lead a different faction, so we have Gao as one finger and that new age sect guru from IF as another finger..."
- "Wow, now that makes sense somehow!"
- "So we have Gao, New Age Guy, Ninja Guy from Daredevil..."
- "And we should have a black finger too, so we can tie it to Harlem and Luke Cage!"
- "Good thinking, write that down. How many fingers are left?"
- "One"
- "Good, then we show the viewers the main villain, who is the biggest finger of them."
- "The middle finger?"
- "Yes, that's the one. We show them the middle finger."
- "What's the middle finger like?"
- "Uh...some big name actor?"
- "Yes, but what's his characteristics? his motivation?"
- "He's a middle finger, he has no motivation."
- "Jeff, are you quoting Galaxy Quest now?"
- "I'm just a glorified extra, Fred, I'm a dead man anyway. If I gotta die, I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
- "Well, I see concentration is hitting a low, maybe we should talk about this tomorrow instead, now who wants cookies?"

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I'm so confused now. Is K'un L'un destroyed? Did Elektra really kill all the Elders? If the plan was to go back to K'un L'un, why didn't they just go while the gate was open and defenseless. I mean...Elektra did go there on their behalf and killed a bunch of people...so...what is going on?!

exactly

 

[TheVileOne]

Colleen was able to beat Bakuto in battle twice.

Also got to say, nothing against that actor, but Bakuto's voice and pronunciation was dumb and really silly. He had most of the hackneyed dialogue in the show.

At least the actor for Gao does fairly well with such dialogue.

 

[Nathan]

yeah, I mean, I get how the writers brainstormed her characters
- "You know, if they are called 'Hand' maybe they should have five leaders, like... fingers..."
- "Ooooh, I like that, the five fingers of the hand, that's deep."
- "...and all of them should lead a different faction, so we have Gao as one finger and that new age sect guru from IF as another finger..."
- "Wow, now that makes sense somehow!"
- "So we have Gao, New Age Guy, Ninja Guy from Daredevil..."
- "And we should have a black finger too, so we can tie it to Harlem and Luke Cage!"
- "Good thinking, write that down. How many fingers are left?"
- "One"
- "Good, then we show the viewers the main villain, who is the biggest finger of them."
- "The middle finger?"
- "Yes, that's the one. We show them the middle finger."
- "What's the middle finger like?"
- "Uh...some big name actor?"
- "Yes, but what's his characteristics? his motivation?"
- "He's a middle finger, he has no motivation."
- "Jeff, are you quoting Galaxy Quest now?"
- "I'm just a glorified extra, Fred, I'm a dead man anyway. If I gotta die, I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
- "Well, I see concentration is hitting a low, maybe we should talk about this tomorrow instead, now who wants cookies?"

 

[TheVileOne]

Sowande I don't think was a finger unless he was basically supposed to be Nobu's replacements. The fingers were Alexandra, Gao, Murakami, Nobu, and Bakuto.

 

[Nathan]

When they try to get info out of Sowande, they actually make it clear that it wouldn't work, because he was trained by the same Monks that trained Danny. He's one of the 5 that were cast out of K'un-Lun.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Sowande I don't think was a finger unless he was basically supposed to be Nobu's replacements. The fingers were Alexandra, Gao, Murakami, Nobu, and Bakuto.

I might be wrong on that, but as I understood Stick, I think Murakami was Nobu's replacement

 

[Nathan]

Murakami is also one of the 5 banished Elders. So he'd be the guy who was giving Nobu his orders. Man... with exception of Madame Gao, they were just all so disappointing and barely more of a threat than your regular Hand grunts.

In Daredevil season 1 and 2, the Hand come across as absolute badasses. And with the start of Iron Fist, they turned into a complete joke.

 

[TheVileOne]

But Stick said Nobu was a finger too did he not?