The Nader Thread

[Humpty Dumpty]

What is Ralph's purpose in existing today? Seriously? Check out this article....



Okay, after I read this, I must admit--I was reaching for the card. As an articulate man of color I am dissapointed that this guy thinks that black people apparently can only "talk" one way or appeal to one race. I also don't believe "pay day loans" are the only things on the list of priorities for blacks--or any other people. How about rising gas prices, foreclosures and other "All-American" issues????

But before I declare this comment racist, I was just wondering if any of you can shed light on any other POSSIBLE ways I can interpret this comment. I wanna say this fool is just being a media ****e but...to me there are seeeerrrrious stereotypes in his comment.

Floor's open.

This is not racist at all. In fact, it's the exact opposite. Let me explain:

What Ralph Nader is saying is that there are a number of problems in this country that disproportionately affect black people, but Obama will dare not touch on any of them for fear of losing the support of white people who claim racism is over and would rather blame black people for their own problems, rather than ascribing black suffering to hundreds of years of slavery, segregation, and prejudice. By addressing the issues Nader lists, Obama would be exposing the black inequality still very much alive in our society. In short, Obama is appeasing elements of the elite and white people in general by letting them live in the delusion that they can pat themselves on the backs for all the "progress" that's supposedly been made on the civil-rights front. While progress certainly has been made, mostly because of the diligence of the black community itself, we still have a far way to go before we reverse all the damage that has been done and continues to be inflicted, and Obama is not willing to contribute to this effort because of his greed for power.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

This is not racist at all. In fact, it's the exact opposite. Let me explain:

What Ralph Nader is saying is that there are a number of problems in this country that disproportionately affect black people, but Obama will dare not touch on any of them for fear of losing the support of white people who claim racism is over and would rather blame black people for their own problems, rather than ascribing black suffering to hundreds of years of slavery, segregation, and prejudice. By addressing the issues Nader lists, Obama would be exposing the black inequality still very much alive in our society. In short, Obama is appeasing elements of the elite and white people in general by letting them live in the delusion that they can pat themselves on the backs for all the "progress" that's supposedly been made on the civil-rights front. While progress certainly has been made, mostly because of the diligence of the black community itself, we still have a far way to go before we reverse all the damage that has been done and continues to be inflicted, and Obama is not willing to contribute to this effort because of his greed for power.

Um...what???

What qualifies Nader (of all people) to determine what the needs of Black folks are in this country? There are a LOT of topics that Obama hasn't touched on yet--but neither did Hillary, John Edwards, John McCain--or anyone else! But because Obama is Half-Black HE'S supposed to "Go there"?

I don't think so. When I see everyone else bending over backwards to appease the African American audience then we'll see "progress. Obama has already addressed the plight of African American single-parent families and the need for Black Men to take responsibility. Aside from that, he's spent nearly all this time battling Hillary and other factors.

This man has JUST gotten the nomination, he's barely had a chance to form his election platform. I think Nader & Co. are being really unrealistic in their so-called "expectations" here.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

"He wants to appeal to white guilt. You appeal to white guilt not by coming on as black is beautiful, black is powerful. Basically he's coming on as someone who is not going to threaten the white power structure, whether it's corporate or whether it's simply oligarchic. And they love it. Whites just eat it up."

Humpty, considering the divide/conquer role Nader wants to play in this race (which he played in 2000 for Al Gore) you don't think the above statement is not the slightest bit intended to polarize whites in this country?

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

Um...what???

What qualifies Nader (of all people) to determine what the needs of Black folks are in this country? There are a LOT of topics that Obama hasn't touched on yet--but neither did Hillary, John Edwards, John McCain--or anyone else! But because Obama is Half-Black HE'S supposed to "Go there"?

That's a good question, and it is important to point out Nader did not himself link the issues he raises to the American black experience. All of what he said is backed up by all of the sociological data examining black inequality. For instance, when you control for income, a black person is more likely to get those trashy sub-prime loans pushed on them than a white person. One study found that controlling for income, 73% of blacks and hispanics got sub-prime loans pushed on them as compared to only 17% of whites.

I don't think so. When I see everyone else bending over backwards to appease the African American audience then we'll see "progress. Obama has already addressed the plight of African American single-parent families and the need for Black Men to take responsibility. Aside from that, he's spent nearly all this time battling Hillary and other factors.

You see, this is his exact problem. When he talks about black suffering, all he does is complain about single mothers and absent fathers in perfect accord with the "blame the victim" mentality. The serious scholarship about the root causes of black suffering tells a very different story. If you want to investigate further, a good place to start is the work of Paul Street, who is an esteemed scholar on the issue of black inequality and also an Obama critic for the same reasons Nader is. There are plenty of other bad things about Obama too like how he rewrote a bill on nuclear-power-plant regulation to conform with the desires of one of his biggest contributors, the nuclear-power giant Exelon. I posted an article in full about that from NY Times on the Gas Prices thread if you want to check out the details.

Humpty, considering the divide/conquer role Nader wants to play in this race (which he played in 2000 for Al Gore) you don't think the above statement is not the slightest bit intended to polarize whites in this country?

Actually, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. These kinds of observations about Obama "assuaging white guilt" and the like are actually very commonly discussed if you follow progressive indymedia outfits (In fact, Paul Street expounds upon Nader's same basic statements in much greater detail in his articles on Znet, an independent libertarian socialist website), so these sentiments really have too much of a background to them for them to have merely been invented for shock value. Ralph Nader is an extremely idealistic man, and I don't think he would do something for such a pettily political purpose as polarizing a given demographic.

 

[Sandman138]

That's a good question, and it is important to point out Nader did not himself link the issues he raises to the American black experience. All of what he said is backed up by all of the sociological data examining black inequality. For instance, when you control for income, a black person is more likely to get those trashy sub-prime loans pushed on them than a white person. One study found that controlling for income, 73% of blacks and hispanics got sub-prime loans pushed on them as compared to only 17% of whites.

How did they control for income? Even if they managed to control for income, did they control for other variables? Geography? Lender? Sex? Preferably, I'd like to see the journal.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Nader and Barr (and any other candidate) should be able to get on the ballot if they meet the qualifications. If you don't like it, tell your major party candidate to do a better job selling himself/herself to the voters.

 

[EdRyder]

If you want to investigate further, a good place to start is the work of Paul Street, who is an esteemed scholar on the issue of black inequality and also an Obama critic for the same reasons Nader is.

You can read his book Racial Oppression in the Global Metropolis in its entirety on google books (couldn't get the link to work ,sorry)

 

[ScottyBBadd]

Nader and Barr (and any other candidate) should be able to get on the ballot if they meet the qualifications. If you don't like it, tell your major party candidate to do a better job selling himself/herself to the voters.

Agreed. All candidates should be in all debates. If you truely want change...vote Independant.

 

[ScottyBBadd]

Obama on Nader: "He's just trying to get attention."

Haha, that pretty much sums it up.

But, I will still vote for him.

 

[rdh007]

A "Texas Outlaw" is going to vote for Ralph Nader? Why?

 

[Cosmic]

Floor's open.

Forget about the rhetoric for a second. You know he's not literally talking about Obama's diction and word usage. As far as I've seen, Obama has shown virtually no interest in discussing issues concerning poor Americans. Nader is characterizing Obama as an elitist. Obviously, it's not the way you want to be perceived if you're running as the Democratic candidate.

The criticism is valid, IMO. It's Obama's own fault that he's left himself open to this kind of criticism, by failing to actually do something about it a long time ago. So, I think it's fair to ask Mr. Obama and friends, "why has nothing been done about this?" Nader is saying, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. Nothing will be done, because at the end of the day, Obama is looking out for the interests of big corporations.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Have people missed the point of my thread here? Some of these comments are all over the place and have nothing to do with the topic I've engaged here. Dealing with social issues has zero to do with "talking white" or appealing to "white guilt" folks.

And if it does, enlighten me please.

 

[Immortalfire]

Nader ftw!!!

 

[Marx]

Nader ftw!!!

You just couldn't let this thread die, could you???

Spoiler

 

[Hobgoblin]

Nader is running?

 

[Marx]

Nader is running?

As irrelevent as he is...yes.

 

[Immortalfire]

You just couldn't let this thread die, could you???

Spoiler

Nevah!

 

[Hobgoblin]

As irrelevent as he is...yes.

Well, he gets an A for persistence.

 

[Ash J. Williams]

A "Texas Outlaw" is going to vote for Ralph Nader? Why?

I'd like to think of it as one less vote for Obama. And Nader's actually qualified, ya know.

 

[X-Ray]

He just ended his political career tonight during a interview with Shepard Smith in which he said "Obama will either be this country's Uncle Sam or it's Uncle Tom" ...

EDIT:

His exact words ...

"To put it very simply, he is our first African American President, or he will be. And we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he's going top be Uncle Sam for this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporation"

The most irritating part about it was that he was trying to defend his use of the word "Uncle Tom" and that he doesn't regret saying it.

[YT]ibsP6XN2dIo[/YT]

 

[redfirebird2008]

Screw Ralph Nader.

 

[Marx]

Ralph Nader can now go back to whatever cave he was in before the election. This time, he shouldn't come back out.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Ralph Nader can now go back to whatever cave he was in before the election. This time, he shouldn't come back out.

I think he pretty much just pissed away any credibility he might have had with the far left.

Or hell, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they LIKE that kind of rhetoric. Maybe they also liked when Jesse Jackson called Obama the n-word.

 

[Dr. Evil]

It's too bad that Nader has no personality, otherwise he would have been spoofed on Saturday Night Live more then once.

 

[Immortalfire]

This Obama winning is just talk. Later today, they'll examine the data and see that Nader won!