Age of Extinction Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 2

[Marvin]

But does that mean their criticism is without merit? Yes it would be unfair to compare Transformers to some Oscar Bait movie, but when two movies in the same genre, the Marvel movies and the Transformers movies get radically different reviews, maybe there is something to the criticism the Transformers get.

Unless there is a giant conspiracy, it seems like several critics decided on their own that these Transformers movie are not very good.

Besides if we don't judge things on personal critical thinking skills, don't we encourage a herd mentality?

Everytime we mention the critics and what that group of people dictate to further a point, we encourage herd mentality. Everytime I hear someone mention baysplosions(cause no other movie has them) I'm seeing herd mentality and so forth. It's too late for that.
These rules of film making that we think we are personally grading upon have been told to us, it's an institution...like when judges grade a gymnastics floor routine, someone made up a rubric and we seemingly judge our art by that rather than how it effects us personally. I don't consider that critical thinking as it pertains to art but rather science. I digress.

There is no 'giant conspiracy, that would be strawman territory. It's a simple matter of a number of people(critics in this case) not liking these movies. That's all well and good. But when you really think about it, there are alot of people that don't like alot of movies. A cult hit like Hensel/Gretel is hated by 300 or so people, yet loved by another group of 300 or so. At any point in time the MOS boards have 1000 people roaming, if 300 of those SHH forum members happened to hate the film what would that actually tell us other than 300 guys on the hype hate the movie. Same with any marvel or fox movie. That is all that is happen with these RT scores. We just happen to care more about what these critics say for some reason. I gave up on them entirely when I kept seeing Faraci's name on the RT pages. He's just an opinion, a fickle one at that, as you or I. They all are.

Lastly, they may not compare TF to oscar bait movies(though you'd be surprised) but they don't always compare it to what it infact..is. Seems few people actually know what it is other than effective on the masses.

 

[The Overlord]

Everytime we mention the critics and what that group of people dictate to further a point, we encourage herd mentality. Everytime I hear someone mention baysplosions(cause no other movie has them) I'm seeing herd mentality and so forth. It's too late for that.
These rules of film making that we think we are personally grading upon have been told to us, it's an institution...like when judges grade a gymnastics floor routine, someone made up a rubric and we seemingly judge our art by that rather than how it effects us personally. I don't consider that critical thinking as it pertains to art but rather science. I digress.

There is no 'giant conspiracy, that would be strawman territory. It's a simple matter of a number of people(critics in this case) not liking these movies. That's all well and good. But when you really think about it, there are alot of people that don't like alot of movies. A cult hit like Hensel/Gretel is hated by 300 or so people, yet loved by another group of 300 or so. At any point in time the MOS boards have 1000 people roaming, if 300 of those SHH forum members happened to hate the film what would that actually tell us other than 300 guys on the hype hate the movie. Same with any marvel or fox movie. That is all that is happen with these RT scores. We just happen to care more about what these critics say for some reason. I gave up on them entirely when I kept seeing Faraci's name on the RT pages. He's just an opinion, a fickle one at that, as you or I. They all are.

Lastly, they may not compare TF to oscar bait movies(though you'd be surprised) but they don't always compare it to what it infact..is. Seems few people actually know what it is other than effective on the masses.

Well you could say the idea of herd mentality is a double edged sword, but I still the idea that saying just because it is popular means its good. That supports group think and focus group dictatorships, not true art. Sure sometimes the critics are wrong too, I'm not saying we should just blindly follow the critics, but still sometimes some criticism is valid. I didn't like Superman Returns and that some good reviews, I didn't agree with Ebert's review of Thor, so I am not arguing for blind critic worship either.

This is this whole market worship idea that I don't believe in that the market is a god and all its of decisions are always great.

The problem with the popularity equals quality argument is you can apply to anything, would Green Lantern and Catwoman had been better films if they made a ton of money. How are the Transformers films better then those films?

 

[Marvin]

GL and Catwomen bombed. The audience rejected them.

Of course the masses don't validate 'quality' as I assume you define it. There are plenty of circumstances that contaminate the comparisons, such as marketing or brands, reboots, sequels to bad things, and various other things that simply don't give everything a 'fair' shot(snow piercer for one).
However, what I'm saying is that there is no 'quality' as you define it, not in art(imo). We as a society have made up some rubric that we think defines engaging effective film making and we let the critics tell us(sometimes) how close a film comes to meeting that rubric.

The problem with this is that it usurps the concept of the artist audience relationship. For all the criteria for 'good' art that came about in the 14th to 17th century as it pertained to our society at that time(perspective/composition/shadow and flesh tone/subject matter even), when the dudes who started up the modern art movement, with their fancy finger paintings or spilled bucket style murals came around...the absolute only measure for if this new stuff that clearly didn't meet the rubric was any good, was if it engaged with the audience. Time as shown it to be exceptional in this regard. Of course the critics at the time were doing what was expected, judging(negatively) it based on the rubric. What's more, it's easy to find 300 or so people that think pollack's work is nonsense, the only win is that it has a massive massive audience. This is my point about how fickle it is to lean on some 300 people. There is no good or bad with art, it's about if it finds and pleases an audience, the more it does and the more it pleases them the more it is validated. House music being a good example. House music/dubstep isn't Mozzart but it's validated it's artists by find it's audience. This entire thing turn into a circus when critics review comedies imo.

What's more, I'd be more inclined to sympathize with critics if I didn't know who they were. That Faraci and his ilk are part of the culling...

 

[DA_Champion]

But then you have people like you suggesting that in terms of story and characterization, these films are unfairly judged compared to other summer movies? hahahaha do me a favour. The differences between these films and Marvels films or original summer movies like Edge of Tomorrow are clear as day.

Correct on Edge of Tomorrow, incorrect on MCU.

 

[Lord]

Correct on Edge of Tomorrow, incorrect on MCU.

I have to disagree here, the MCU films are far from perfect, but they usualy get more care and aren't near as insulting, there's a reason many women also got interested in the MCU, and it's not because the female characters are treated like Megan Fox.

 

[MrMaooz]

"How do you say 'get the f*** out of my way' in Chinese?"

 

[Marvin]

I have to disagree here, the MCU films are far from perfect, but they usualy get more care and aren't near as insulting, there's a reason many women also got interested in the MCU, and it's not because the female characters are treated like Megan Fox.

Kinda ironic when you think about the amount of times Megan Fox in particular was saved by the male lead in either TF film whereas you look at the typical amount of damseling going on in the former

 

[Lord]

Kinda ironic when you think about the amount of times Megan Fox in particular was saved by the male lead in either TF film whereas you look at the typical amount of damseling going on in the former

Cinema is visual, damsel in distress aren't the only thing that makes the TF films look so sexist. The Marvel films haven't been perfect with the roles of female characters, in Guardians expecialy, the only female protagonist had to take a back seat for the usual womaniser and sexist jokes here and there.

But then you have characters like Black Widow, Peper and Peggy. BW's sex appeal is indeed explored, but her character in the films since Avengers has always made herself 3 Dimensional and more than just "eye candy".

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

"How do you say 'get the f*** out of my way' in Chinese?"

LMAO, I just saw the movie yesterday and that part killed me. I'm surprised that I actually enjoyed this one, unlike the previous two disasters.

Also, "Oof...My fat ass is stuck! Bee, take the shot!"

There were so many hilarious parts in this movie. Laughed the whole way through. I'll definitely be watching T4 again.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^The humour overall was the best since the 1st movie, as was the action and interaction with the TF's. I really dont know how this got worse reviews than the last two movies.

Loved Hound, but my favourite line of his was in the final battle "I'm like a fat ballerina!"

 

[antsman41]

Tucci was awesome, everything else was ok to meh...

 

[craigdbfan]

Finally got around to seeing this and I can't believe the reception it received. There is no chance in hell this movie deserves an 18% on RT. Not even freaking close.

This movie is easily in the 60%-75% range. VFX continuity was seamless and the Autobots were actually the driving force of the film (especially Optimus Prime). For the first time they felt truly fleshed out while Mark Wahlberg and the gang had a really nice sentimental story going on of a father accepting that his daughter was growing up.

The whole affair seemed incredibly genuine and heartfelt to me. While the action scenes weren't the most elaborate or ambitious that the series has seen, the concise story telling and damn good villain in Lockdown made for a more than satisfactory replacement.

This movie gets a solid 8/10 from me. Due to some things coming up I didn't get a chance to see it in IMAX and I freaking regret not seeing it on the big screen.

What a damn shame that the reception truly seems to stem from just an innate hatred of Bay and this franchise in general.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Finally got around to seeing this and I can't believe the reception it received. There is no chance in hell this movie deserves an 18% on RT. Not even freaking close.

This movie is easily in the 60%-75% range. VFX continuity was seamless and the Autobots were actually the driving force of the film (especially Optimus Prime). For the first time they felt truly fleshed out while Mark Wahlberg and the gang had a really nice sentimental story going on of a father accepting that his daughter was growing up.

The whole affair seemed incredibly genuine and heartfelt to me. While the action scenes weren't the most elaborate or ambitious that the series has seen, the concise story telling and damn good villain in Lockdown made for a more than satisfactory replacement.

This movie gets a solid 8/10 from me. Due to some things coming up I didn't get a chance to see it in IMAX and I freaking regret not seeing it on the big screen.

What a damn shame that the reception truly seems to stem from just an innate hatred of Bay and this franchise in general.

Agreed, glad you enjoyed it man.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

I Enjoy the franchise and there isn't a movie that I hate.

TF4 somehow managed to be the least one that I liked, the human factor was too exhausting and took too much screen time from the Transformers. Prime was awesome as ever along with Bee.

Overall, the movie is good and enjoyable but Bay is showing his fatigue with the franchise, it's basically being the same thing over and over again.

It deserves a 5/10 IMO. Maybe a 6/10 when rewatching with the Blu-ray.

 

[Iceman]

I've rewatched the others recently and they're fun films no matter how stupid. I can see why they've made so much money.

 

[craigdbfan]

Agreed, glad you enjoyed it man.

Thanks man.

It was a ton of fun and at parts I found myself thinking "Nobody will be able to do this quite like Bay" his eye for proper filming so a VFX house like ILM can go to work is simply unparallelled. The compositing in his Transformers films are something quite extraordinary to behold. Often times I feel people really take some of this stuff for granted and don't realize how hard it is to film something in just the right way with the proper amount of lighting so a VFX department can give you 100% and then some. That's not even bringing up the staging of many of the live pyrotechnics to have them match with a storyboard of fight between any of the Transformers or chase sequences.

Few directors know how to do this well. Nolan legitimately enjoys Bay films because I can tell he appreciates the intricate blending of VFX and live action in such a dynamic way (many times in the daylight) that only one with a true love for this art form would understand.

I'm not asking everyone to enjoy the plotting or characters but at least give the man credit for being a pioneer in the work of seamless integration of the inanimate with on location shoots.

 

[DA_Champion]

What a damn shame that the reception truly seems to stem from just an innate hatred of Bay and this franchise in general.

Indeed.

 

[Lord]

I don't, the entire execution of the 4th film felt weird and clunky, in most scenes between the humans i started to question why certain things were filmed a certain way, and i'm saying this as someone that did enjoy Dark of the Moon. The characters felt so bland, then you had things that didn't make much sence, like the military agreeing to dispose of autobots but trust this other shady space mercenary, with one of the agents aparently holding a grudge againsts all bots for his sister dying in Chicago, yet, doesn't seem to think twice about Lockdown.

I think the movie deserved every single negative criticism, even the Directing felt a little passionless.

 

[roach]

[YT]IMw8LSScxLA[/YT]

Peter Cullen gets immortalized and Optimus Prime gets a star on the Walk of Fame today.

 

[<(o_o)>]

I don't, the entire execution of the 4th film felt weird and clunky, in most scenes between the humans i started to question why certain things were filmed a certain way, and i'm saying this as someone that did enjoy Dark of the Moon. The characters felt so bland, then you had things that didn't make much sence, like the military agreeing to dispose of autobots but trust this other shady space mercenary, with one of the agents aparently holding a grudge againsts all bots for his sister dying in Chicago, yet, doesn't seem to think twice about Lockdown.

I think the movie deserved every single negative criticism, even the Directing felt a little passionless.

I don't view it as the whole military after the Autobots, it was more of a rogue kill squad who was out for the money even the one agent guy would have made millions from helping to get Tucci's character the seed from Lockdown so he wasn't doing this just to get revenge for his sister, his motive was simply greed. Where was Sam, Lennox & Epps during all of this they could have at least had them come back for a 5 or 10 minute scene to explain what happened to them, maybe they were arrested or were threatened with arrest if they interfered with the Senator & kill squad's plans.

 

[DA_Champion]

I don't, the entire execution of the 4th film felt weird and clunky, in most scenes between the humans i started to question why certain things were filmed a certain way, and i'm saying this as someone that did enjoy Dark of the Moon. The characters felt so bland, then you had things that didn't make much sence, like the military agreeing to dispose of autobots but trust this other shady space mercenary, with one of the agents aparently holding a grudge againsts all bots for his sister dying in Chicago, yet, doesn't seem to think twice about Lockdown.

I think the movie deserved every single negative criticism, even the Directing felt a little passionless.

Don't get me wrong, I found the movie mediocre and was bored for large parts. However, I'm disagreeing with the notion that it was "17% bad". It wasn't 17% bad... Green Lantern, Thor 2, Amazing Spider Man 2, Transformers 2, Battle: Los Angeles ... all of those movies scored higher and sometimes substantially higher than Age of Extinction.

This movie had some redeeming qualities and a few fun parts, it's not 17% bad. Those movies I listed before? Those are 17% bad.

As for the directing, yes it felt passionless, it's like Spielberg said, Bay's never made a movie like this before. There was less T&A, there was no glorification of the US military, main character was to a badass, etc.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Thanks man.

It was a ton of fun and at parts I found myself thinking "Nobody will be able to do this quite like Bay" his eye for proper filming so a VFX house like ILM can go to work is simply unparallelled. The compositing in his Transformers films are something quite extraordinary to behold. Often times I feel people really take some of this stuff for granted and don't realize how hard it is to film something in just the right way with the proper amount of lighting so a VFX department can give you 100% and then some. That's not even bringing up the staging of many of the live pyrotechnics to have them match with a storyboard of fight between any of the Transformers or chase sequences.

Few directors know how to do this well. Nolan legitimately enjoys Bay films because I can tell he appreciates the intricate blending of VFX and live action in such a dynamic way (many times in the daylight) that only one with a true love for this art form would understand.

I'm not asking everyone to enjoy the plotting or characters but at least give the man credit for being a pioneer in the work of seamless integration of the inanimate with on location shoots.

I always loved Bay's movies, they are unashamedly style over substance and politically incorrect, and I don't think anyone else does action on the scale he does since Cameron semi-retired.

However you are spot on about his ability to seamlessly integrate live-action and CGI on a level no one else is on, it really is a craft that gets zero appreciation, Bayhem is an art!

 

[SymbioteKal-El]

Finally got around to seeing this and I can't believe the reception it received. There is no chance in hell this movie deserves an 18% on RT. Not even freaking close.

This movie is easily in the 60%-75% range. VFX continuity was seamless and the Autobots were actually the driving force of the film (especially Optimus Prime). For the first time they felt truly fleshed out while Mark Wahlberg and the gang had a really nice sentimental story going on of a father accepting that his daughter was growing up.

The whole affair seemed incredibly genuine and heartfelt to me. While the action scenes weren't the most elaborate or ambitious that the series has seen, the concise story telling and damn good villain in Lockdown made for a more than satisfactory replacement.

This movie gets a solid 8/10 from me. Due to some things coming up I didn't get a chance to see it in IMAX and I freaking regret not seeing it on the big screen.

What a damn shame that the reception truly seems to stem from just an innate hatred of Bay and this franchise in general.

Very good review, I am another who doesn't see why this movie is rated so poorly by critics, as well as many fans.

 

[def28]

Just watched it again. I still say easily the second best of the series. Pretty friggen awesome.

 

[DA_Champion]

Very good review, I am another who doesn't see why this movie is rated so poorly by critics, as well as many fans.

Because it's cool to bash it.