Truly the most shocking and sad newsarticle I've ever read..

[Carcharodon]

My first reaction to this news was "Well, no wonder we make up such a small portion of the population." But really, who the hell are we going to blame for this other than the women who decide to get these abortions? I find it difficult to believe that there's some massive conspiracy that makes such a large number of black women think "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be raising a kid right now." Of course, one could argue that there's a conspiracy that creates hostile environments that black women wouldn't find suitable to raise children in, but that still doesn't account for the personal choices of the women who choose to abort.

So while this data does imply a trend, the trend itself doesn't necessarily imply a conspiracy.

People like to bring up the fact that Sanger was a eugenicist as a way of implying that the entire organization is based on the intent/desire to pursue eugenicist ideals (e.g., "improving" the gene pool).

 

[Schlosser85]

Instead of portraying this as an outside conspiracy, maybe those concerned about actually solving the problem should look in the mirror.

And acknowledging that the black community has some very serious self-loathing problems is not "racist", it's a fact. "Black community" does not refer to every black individual person.

 

[Carcharodon]

Is calling black culture "terrible" (or something similar) racist?

 

[mrvlknight21]

Yeah , because whitey is forcing the blacks to get abortions.

Sure racism still exists in the USA , but to suggest that abortions are being used to exterminate blacks is just stupid.

EXACTLY.

Me and him went on an anti-Smallville crusade. We are teh banned right now.

Sounds like a reason for praise and not to be banned.

My first reaction to this news was "Well, no wonder we make up such a small portion of the population." But really, who the hell are we going to blame for this other than the women who decide to get these abortions? I find it difficult to believe that there's some massive conspiracy that makes such a large number of black women think "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be raising a kid right now." Of course, one could argue that there's a conspiracy that creates hostile environments that black women wouldn't find suitable to raise children in, but that still doesn't account for the personal choices of the women who choose to abort.

So while this data does imply a trend, the trend itself doesn't necessarily imply a conspiracy.

Finally some common sense.

 

[Kelly]

I think the President himself understands the problems that we speak of....as shown in his Father's Day Speech in 2008...



I think that we should look for solutions, rather than defend out of an outcry of racism.

 

[Carcharodon]

I think that we should look for solutions, rather than defend out of an outcry of racism.

Not sure what you're saying here. Who's crying "racism?"

 

[mrvlknight21]

Without Reagan we wouldn't have had crack in the ghetto.

[YT]bUIdDZVe_kk[/YT]

But here is my whole thing with it, same as with the abortions. NOBODY is making anyone smoke crack. It is their idiotic choice to use a dangerous, illegal drug. If the government helped bring crack into the country, yes, that is horrible. BUT, if any person decides to start using crack, they fall into the idiot category immediately.

Same as with abortions-the girl could have abstained, used a condom or birth control. Then after the fact, she could have kept the child or put it up for adoption. She is CHOOSING to have an abortion.

 

[Carcharodon]

But here is my whole thing with it, same as with the abortions. NOBODY is making anyone smoke crack. It is their idiotic choice to use a dangerous, illegal drug. If the government helped bring crack into the country, yes, that is horrible. BUT, if any person decides to start using crack, they fall into the idiot category immediately.

Same as with abortions-the girl could have abstained, used a condom or birth control. Then after the fact, she could have kept the child or put it up for adoption. She is CHOOSING to have an abortion.

You can't be naive enough to believe that socioeconomic conditions don't play a massive role in abortion rates....

 

[SurfDUI]

Is calling black culture "terrible" (or something similar) racist?

What it is, is asking the wrong question-
No one ever attributes much of anything to 'white' culture, whateverinthehell you feel that is- IMO it might or not include things like school violence or a repeated commitment to destroy government buildings.

It might not even be racist to pin the ill behavior, of less than 1% of a minority group, as a behavioral gauge for the remaining taxpayers. Having those views would make one a pig *****e though.

 

[Carcharodon]

What it is, is asking the wrong question-
No one ever attributes much of anything to 'white' culture, whateverinthehell you feel that is- IMO it might or not include things like school violence or a repeated commitment to destroy government buildings.

It might not even be racist to pin the ill behavior, of less than 1% of a minority group, as a behavioral gauge for the remaining taxpayers. Having those views would make one a pig *****e though.

The only reason I ask is because somebody in this thread said just that.

 

[mrvlknight21]

You can't be naive enough to believe that socioeconomic conditions don't play a massive role in abortion rates....

What do you mean by that exactly?
Do you disagree that it is all about choices? In regards to abortion rates, why would rich/poor matter if the person is making responsible choices?

 

[SurfDUI]

The only reason I ask is because somebody in this thread said just that.

Yea, I followed.

 

[Carcharodon]

What do you mean by that exactly?
Do you disagree that it is all about choices? In regards to abortion rates, why would rich/poor matter if the person is making responsible choices?

Choices are far more limited when you're poor than when you're wealthy. I imagine it's probably very easy for you to sit there and criticize those people for their poor decisions without walking in their shoes, but I would encourage you to step back and take a less simplistic view of the situation. If anything, that's part of the problem.

It can absolutely be argued that poor decisions are to blame, but how much of that, for example, is the result of a lack of education? Once pregnant, how many women are forced into the decision because they can't afford to take care of a child? Hell, some can't even afford to be pregnant because they have to work.

I don't think it's as simple as "they're making bad choices." They are, but to pretend that that's the underlying problem is really a mistake.

 

[Carcharodon]

Yea, I followed.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Sometimes having an abortion is the most responsible choice.

I don't see how these statistics are sad. The black women who had these abortions have a chance to put themselves in a better position rather than being single mothers sometimes without work.

 

[mrvlknight21]

Choices are far more limited when you're poor than when you're wealthy. I imagine it's probably very easy for you to sit there and criticize those people for their poor decisions without walking in their shoes, but I would encourage you to step back and take a less simplistic view of the situation. If anything, that's part of the problem.

It can absolutely be argued that poor decisions are to blame, but how much of that, for example, is the result of a lack of education? Once pregnant, how many women are forced into the decision because they can't afford to take care of a child? Hell, some can't even afford to be pregnant because they have to work.

I don't think it's as simple as "they're making bad choices." They are, but to pretend that that's the underlying problem is really a mistake.

Why arent they educated on the matter? Sex ed is in every school I have ever heard of and free counseling, free condoms and free birth control can be had at the local women's clinics (speaking for my area here at least, Im sure it is this way nearly everywhere else). That would fly in the face of you saying their choices (pre-pregnancy) are limited because they are poor.

As far as after the fact, the woman could have the child and put it up for adoption. While that is likely the hardest choice, it isnt like people arent aware of that option, so I again dont see where economics or a lack of knowledge plays a role there either. I have 2 sets of friends that have adopted children from mothers in these types of situations-very poor and financially unable to care for a baby/child.

Because of some of the jobs I have held, I have seen the sorts of bad choices I mentioned repeated on top of each other by poor and wealthy alike. I have seen people go to jail for the most stupid reasons in the world and then say "I need to be home to take care of my child." They were aware of that BEFORE they made the choice to go to jail, so why did they do it?

There are soooo many programs and assistance available for those who fall into lower economic classes for all sorts of things from finding jobs, to getting free education, etc etc. Many of those who live in these conditions have little or no desire to move forward and improve and continue to make bad choices which simply push them further "into the corner" making it harder for them to ever do anything productive. And again, for those who do put forth an effort, there is much that can be had at no cost to them, to assist them.

Keep in mind, I am speaking from experience of seeing families like this, repeatedly.

 

[Carcharodon]

Why arent they educated on the matter? Sex ed is in every school I have ever heard of and free counseling, free condoms and free birth control can be had at the local women's clinics (speaking for my area here at least, Im sure it is this way nearly everywhere else). That would fly in the face of you saying their choices (pre-pregnancy) are limited because they are poor.

As far as after the fact, the woman could have the child and put it up for adoption. While that is likely the hardest choice, it isnt like people arent aware of that option, so I again dont see where economics or a lack of knowledge plays a role there either. I have 2 sets of friends that have adopted children from mothers in these types of situations-very poor and financially unable to care for a baby/child.

Because of some of the jobs I have held, I have seen the sorts of bad choices I mentioned repeated on top of each other by poor and wealthy alike. I have seen people go to jail for the most stupid reasons in the world and then say "I need to be home to take care of my child." They were aware of that BEFORE they made the choice to go to jail, so why did they do it?

There are soooo many programs and assistance available for those who fall into lower economic classes for all sorts of things from finding jobs, to getting free education, etc etc. Many of those who live in these conditions have little or no desire to move forward and improve and continue to make bad choices which simply push them further "into the corner" making it harder for them to ever do anything productive. And again, for those who do put forth an effort, there is much that can be had at no cost to them, to assist them.

Keep in mind, I am speaking from experience of seeing families like this, repeatedly.

What "experience?"

And if it's really as simple as the scenario you're presenting, then why this correlation?

• Poverty. Women with incomes below 200% of poverty made up 30% of all women of reproductive age, but accounted for 57% of all women having abortions in 2000: Twenty-seven percent of abortions were obtained by women living below the poverty line, and another 31% by women with incomes of 100-199% of poverty. The concentration of economically disadvantaged women among those having abortions was greater in 2000 than in 1994, when 50% of women obtaining abortions had incomes of less than 200% of poverty.

Abortion rates decreased as income rose, from 44 per 1,000 among poor women to 10 per 1,000 among the highest-income women. In 1994 as well, women with incomes below 200% of poverty had higher abortion rates than higher-income women. However, between 1994 and 2000, rates decreased among middle- and higher-income women, whereas they increased among poor and low-income women.

The high abortion rates among economically disadvantaged women were partly due to high pregnancy rates—133 per 1,000 for poor women and 115 per 1,000 for low-income women. As income increased, pregnancy rates declined, and women with the highest incomes had a pregnancy rate of 66 per 1,000. These women were the least likely to abort their pregnancies (15%), and poor and low-income women were the most likely to do so (33%).

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.html

To say that socioeconomic status is not a factor is...well, it flies in the face of known fact.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Article does not live up to thread title.

 

[mrvlknight21]

What "experience?"

I worked as a probation officer for 5 years. In that job, I visited the offenders at their residences and jobs, up to once a week. I also gave them referrals to drug/alcohol counseling, along with job counseling/assistance (most of which was provided for free by the state). I have seen them make bad choice after bad choice and then complain when I tell them they have to go to jail.

My mother has worked with the poor/homeless 3 days a week for the past 15 years and I help her as often as a I can (usually only once a week, though). She runs a food bank 1 day a week and those in need come and get bags full of food and other necessities for free (toothbrushes, toilet paper, etc).

In my current job (as a law enforcement officer), I work cases that are brought to me by the Department of Family and Children Services and other agencies that give aid to those who need it. I have seen needy families receive various types of free aid/assistance-from doctors visits to referrals for job leads and places where they can receive free food and various household items.

Thats my "experience" in a nutshell.

 

[SurfDUI]

Article does not live up to thread title.

That it don't. This isn't even the worst thing I've heard this year.
Shock-no, ****ing sad sure.

 

[StorminNorman]

So 40% percent of Black women are getting abortions, & only 13% of the population is black. I would love to see those numbers crunched to come up with the probability of there being a Black president.

Like turning air into gold.

The President came from a white mother, so the stats are little different.

Is calling black culture "terrible" (or something similar) racist?

Not at all.

What it is, is asking the wrong question-
No one ever attributes much of anything to 'white' culture, whateverinthehell you feel that is- IMO it might or not include things like school violence or a repeated commitment to destroy government buildings.

It might not even be racist to pin the ill behavior, of less than 1% of a minority group, as a behavioral gauge for the remaining taxpayers. Having those views would make one a pig *****e though.

I think it's clear that the problems in the black community are not limited to 1% of the group.

I think the ones that deserve most of the blame are the "leaders" like the racist Jesse Jackson and the corrupt Al Sharpton. Hell, most of the well known black leaders of yesteryear (MLK, Malcom X, etc.) were communists or socialists, which certainly hasn't helped either.

 

[StorminNorman]

Is calling black culture "terrible" (or something similar) racist?

The only reason I ask is because somebody in this thread said just that.

Not sure what you're saying here. Who's crying "racism?"

I also had to lol at this.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's easy to say there's assistance available for the poor until you have a crying hungry baby with no job.

Public assistance is not always dependable. You could lose those benefits at the drop of the hat. Then what?

It's not easy to be a single mother. Why should black women choose that road when they can get an abortion and have a baby when they're ready.

 

[mrvlknight21]

It's easy to say there's assistance available for the poor until you have a crying hungry baby with no job.

Public assistance is not always dependable. You could lose those benefits at the drop of the hat. Then what?

It's not easy to be a single mother. Why should black women choose that road when they can get an abortion and have a baby when they're ready.

?? People in the situation that you named in the first line is exactly who the assistance is intended for.

How could you lose those benefits?

 

[BlackLantern]

maybe the state decides to cut you off (which happens), maybe whatever assistance you are getting isn't enough

welfare/state assistance here in CT is pretty rigorous, you have to show that you really, really, really need help