Daredevil Which Villains should appear in this TV series?

[Keyser Soze]

This might be my favorite courtroom story. It would be difficult to pull off this season. For starters, it at least would benefit from having someone to sound off that knows Matt's identity. If not Foggy, like it was in the story, then at least Luke Cage and Danny Rang. Given that, it should be post-Defenders.

A lot of what was laying in the background of the story was whether Matt's ego was killing his chances of acquittal. In other words, was he using the trial as a statement about superheroes. That only works if there are at least rumors that he's Daredevil. This part can be toned down or dropped if needed, but it is something to keep in mind.

It's also worth keeping in mind that not everything is a hint. He was asked about his favorite comic and he said that one. After the Fantastic Four fiasco, I wouldn't be surprised if every showrunner hands their actors a handful of comics and says "here, read these and pick one as your favorite if someone asks you what your favorite is."

I appreciate that not everything is a hint, and for me I wasn't taking Cox mentioning it as his favourite comic as the hint it might factor into the season. I was taking Cox's explicit statement of, "Anyone who liked that issue might have something to look forward to in this season" as a hint.

 

[Mike Murdock]

OK, that's a fair point.

I do hope we see some courtroom story of that quality. I just feel that specific story needs some groundwork laid first. Maybe I'm too optimistic about a second season because I respond to so many things with "this would be a great second season story."

 

[Dasher10]

My guess

Season 1

Kingpin, Owl, Mister Fear, Death Stalker

Season 2

Elektra, Bullseye, Nuke, Gladiator

Season 3

Lady Bullseye, Typhoid, Ikari

 

[The Villain]

all the old villains should be updated and included. No excuse not to try. Yes, this includes the Ani-Men and the Jester.

Love to see Jester show up. Good pick. Was Madcap ever in Daredevil? Strange choice I know.

 

[The Villain]

-Yeah, for comic relief, Turk, Leap Frog, and Matador would all be better, and more budget -friendly, than Stilt-man.


As for other villains, how about Andy Serkis for the Owl?

Dominic West for Owl or Hammerhead but Serkis would be good. Seeing as he maybe Klaw probably rules him out.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Love to see Jester show up. Good pick. Was Madcap ever in Daredevil? Strange choice I know.

Jester's OK. There's actually a wonderful story by Denny O'Neil with him. But does anyone really want the Matador? Even Stan Lee realized he was lame and killed him off.

ETA: I take that back, it was apparently Marv Wolfman 100-odd issues in, so he had a decently long shelf life for a character so terrible.

 

[marcvader]

Dominic West for Owl or Hammerhead but Serkis would be good. Seeing as he maybe Klaw probably rules him out.

The Owl has already been cast, there's a thread.

 

[The Overlord]

Love to see Jester show up. Good pick. Was Madcap ever in Daredevil? Strange choice I know.

One big problem with Jester, how do you have him appear and not come off as a really poor man's Joker?

 

[Mike Murdock]

To me, the thespian angle was always more important with the Jester. The Joker's just in it for anarchy, the Jester's there for attention.

 

[The Overlord]

To me, the thespian angle was always more important with the Jester. The Joker's just in it for anarchy, the Jester's there for attention.

See, but Joker is very theatrical and often considers himself an artist. If he Joker was just in it for the anarchy, he wouldn't wear such loud, bright and outlandish clothes. He does this for attention too, there was a story back in the 90s where Joker tried to make a movie of himself killing people, there was story in the mid 2000s where Joker "ran" for mayor and made his campaign about killing random people. Think about all those times he took over the air waves to explain his latest ploy to the people of Gotham. Its hard to argue that Joker doesn't seek attention when he put his face on almost every fish in Gotham City back in the 70s.

To me that is not enough of difference, plus its easier to understand why a psychopath would commit crimes over an out of work actor. Jester's origin is pretty lame, he was struggling actor who people laughed and so he decided to improve his skills by taking acrobatics and fencing, but refused to take acting lessons and was mad that people still laughed at him. Well maybe if he took acting lessons, then he would have a better acting career. That origin just makes him seem like a fool and a loser, not sympathetic or scary villain.

Also I wouldn't want Jester to appear at all, unless you can find a way to put him into a bigger plot, rather then him being a just a "freak of the week". If all Jester is going to do is rob banks and get beat up by DD, I don't see the point of putting him in. I hope this this DD show has tighter plotting then the Gotham and Flash shows, with more focus on ongoing stories and not rely on a super villain of the week.

I think Jester would need a lot of reworking to fit into this show and I would not be broken up if he never appears. I think he should have stayed retired after that send off he got in the comics back in the 80s.

I think there is 2 things you could do with Jester in this series, either make him a corrupt media pundit who is assisting Kingpin in smearing DD (the most interesting thing Jester has done has involved media manipulation) or just have his acting career be ruined by someone else and have him plot revenge on that person.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Look. I get that the two characters are similar. But you asked how to make him appear so as to not just come off as a Joker ripoff. I don't personally want the character either, but I was brainstorming ideas. But the showman aspects of the Joker have not been played up (particularly to a mainstream audience) in quite some time. Usually, they go with one of two things: arbitrary (and cruel) chaos or whimsical anarchy. He's about breaking all norms.

The Jester isn't really about that. Certainly, the Joker doesn't have any thespian aspects like the Jester does. My favorite story of the Jester is one where he breaks out of prison and kidnaps an actor who is going to play Cyrano de Bergerac on TV and then dresses up as the actor and performs the part. That's all he does. To me, that makes sense. His whole motivation stems from people thinking he's a terrible actor.

Don't get me wrong, as I said above, I don't particularly think he should appear. His roles are usually one-off villains of the week, which the show seems to be avoiding. And I agree he should have been retired in the 80s. He had a fitting ending and it's a shame they brought him back after that.

 

[The Overlord]

Look. I get that the two characters are similar. But you asked how to make him appear so as to not just come off as a Joker ripoff. I don't personally want the character either, but I was brainstorming ideas. But the showman aspects of the Joker have not been played up (particularly to a mainstream audience) in quite some time. Usually, they go with one of two things: arbitrary (and cruel) chaos or whimsical anarchy. He's about breaking all norms.

The Jester isn't really about that. Certainly, the Joker doesn't have any thespian aspects like the Jester does. My favorite story of the Jester is one where he breaks out of prison and kidnaps an actor who is going to play Cyrano de Bergerac on TV and then dresses up as the actor and performs the part. That's all he does. To me, that makes sense. His whole motivation stems from people thinking he's a terrible actor.

Don't get me wrong, as I said above, I don't particularly think he should appear. His roles are usually one-off villains of the week, which the show seems to be avoiding. And I agree he should have been retired in the 80s. He had a fitting ending and it's a shame they brought him back after that.

Sorry, I was not trying to be rude or overly aggressive, I am just somewhat emphatic at times, I don't mean offense. I just don't mind being somewhat blunt in a debate, but in a debate like this, its all in good fun.

I personally don't care for Jester, but everyone has their own favorite character and clearly some people on this thread like the Jester and I will not begrudge them for that. Everyone has the right to their own favorite B-list odd ball character, I have a couple myself.

But to me personally, if Jester were to appear and be a serious villain, I would like to see a little more meat on the bone with him. I personally just don't see any reason t care about Jester one way or the other in the comics. I don't see any reason to care about his failed acting career (though I did like the send off O'Neil gave him) because his wounds were self inflicted and he has no one to blame but himself for his failed acting career. Every since since he became a super villain again after O'Neil retired him back in the 80s, he seems more like a plot device then a character.

I don't hate Jester, but I don't find him very appealing the way he is often presented in the comics. I believe in the idea that there no bad characters, only bad writers, but I think sometimes you have to take a character outside the mold they were created in, do some outside the box thinking with them, to make them more compelling. If they could do that with Jester, I would have no problem with him appearing. I mean would people like Mr. Freeze as much as they do, if Paul Dini did not revamp the character, back in BTAS? Sometimes change is good with some of these B-list villains.

I personally just think its more interesting if someone else ruined his career and he wanted revenge on that person, that he had somewhat legitimate, rather then him ruining his own career through his own incompetence. Sometimes I like it when the villain has a somewhat legitimate point and that would make him somewhat sympathetic, compared to a monster like the Joker

 

[gildedmuse]

This would work better in comics than TV, but if I was doing the origin to the character I would have him enroll in drama school but he is so pretentiously over the top most people can't help laughing at his little one man shows and what have you. Then comes the department puts on a big production of Titus Andronicus and he is (like usual) the understudy's understudy. Anyway, some of the kids in the class think it would be funny (and maybe teach him to stop acting like such a pompous know it all in class) to let him go out there and embarrass himself, so the actor and his understudy both skip out, and here is his big chance!

At first the theater is dead quite, thinking this has to be some kind of Shakespearean parody. Then, slowly, they start laughing, and laughing, and pretty soon not even his fellow actors can keep their faces straight. And even with lights in his eyes all he can see are thousands of rows of teeth snarling at him, and he sees the original actor and understudy sitting with the crowd, laughing along, and he glances off stage and sees not even his teacher can keep to together.

You wouldn't 100% blame that guy for snapping and killing all those people while reciting Shakespeare, would you? I mean, yeah, of course you would, but you wouldn't laugh at him.

 

[Gr0oT]

So... Conan Stevens as Gladiator?

 

[Keyser Soze]

This would work better in comics than TV, but if I was doing the origin to the character I would have him enroll in drama school but he is so pretentiously over the top most people can't help laughing at his little one man shows and what have you. Then comes the department puts on a big production of Titus Andronicus and he is (like usual) the understudy's understudy. Anyway, some of the kids in the class think it would be funny (and maybe teach him to stop acting like such a pompous know it all in class) to let him go out there and embarrass himself, so the actor and his understudy both skip out, and here is his big chance!

At first the theater is dead quite, thinking this has to be some kind of Shakespearean parody. Then, slowly, they start laughing, and laughing, and pretty soon not even his fellow actors can keep their faces straight. And even with lights in his eyes all he can see are thousands of rows of teeth snarling at him, and he sees the original actor and understudy sitting with the crowd, laughing along, and he glances off stage and sees not even his teacher can keep to together.

You wouldn't 100% blame that guy for snapping and killing all those people while reciting Shakespeare, would you? I mean, yeah, of course you would, but you wouldn't laugh at him.

"They're all going to laugh at you! They're all going to laugh at you! They're all going to laugh at you!"

 

[Dasher10]

Also, if people want to know who should be the villains from Season 2 onward, I'd suggest:

Elektra: Genesis Rodriguez

Bullseye: Francois Arnaud

Nuke: Chris Jericho

Gladiator: Adam Sandler (Sean Paul Lockheart would also be an option but I kind of want to see him be Moon Knight instead. If they weren't A-listers and weren't already attached to CBMs, I'd also suggest James MacAvoy or Bradley Cooper)

Bullet: John Goodman

Bushwacker: Dolph Lundgren

Typhoid: Abbie Cornish or Katie Cassidy

Lady Bullseye: Eihi Shiina

Ikari: Masahiro Higashide

 

[Keyser Soze]

If Elektra does show up in the future, I've been thinking a bit, and it might make sense to rework her a little. Rather than making her a bounty hunter/assassin for hire with a former affiliation with The Hand, why not make her a leader of The Hand? Could add a further twist to the "old love turned enemy" dynamic between her and Daredevil.

 

[Uskok]

The producers should put HYDRA in the series, but not immediately. Maybe in the second or the third season. HYDRA could destroy Mr. Fisk's criminal empire like in the "Last Rites" storyline.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresource...s-you-should-own-flashback-daredevil-283-300/

 

[Mike Murdock]

Last Rites may be D.G. Chichester's strongest storyline (his strongest individual issue is 34 Hours). But I still found the use of Hydra disappointing. The whole storyline took agency from Daredevil. He may have done one or two things towards bringing down the Kingpin, but it was Hydra that did it. It also made Fisk seem weak. This is a guy who has army generals at his beck and call but he was shown as completely out of his league with Hydra.

Given that Last Rites might be the only good Daredevil story with Hydra in it, it hardly is something that necessarily must be in the show. Hydra is not a traditional Daredevil villain and I'd generally before he stay out of that water.

 

[Naked Shia]

if the matador is not featured, this show is doomed.

 

[TheVision]

I hope Thyphoid Mary shows up

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, I don't think Hydra needs to appear. They've already been a major plot element in a ton of existing movies and TV shows. What's more, Matt isn't really particularly suited for fighting them, unless they've otherwise been so decimated as to be a shadow of a shadow of themselves.

 

[JJmelo]

I think Kingpin is a fine villain to carry the first season. We don't really need someone like Bullseye considering he is just starting out. An Elektra arc would take away from the Kingpin/DD dynamic (unless integral to Kingpin's own arc). I'm fine with just KP.

DD mowing down countless thugs in spectacular fashion will be enough for me

Here are all of those new pics in one convenient location!
http://otlnews.net/2015/02/26/new-daredevil-images-and-age-of-ultron-hulk-poster/

 

[The Overlord]

I think Kingpin is a fine villain to carry the first season. We don't really need someone like Bullseye considering he is just starting out. An Elektra arc would take away from the Kingpin/DD dynamic (unless integral to Kingpin's own arc). I'm fine with just KP.

DD mowing down countless thugs in spectacular fashion will be enough for me

Here are all of those new pics in one convenient location!
http://otlnews.net/2015/02/26/new-daredevil-images-and-age-of-ultron-hulk-poster/

Well Owl is also going to appear in the first season, so there may be a gang war in the first season. Also there are hints the Hand will appear this season too.

 

[Dasher10]

I'm guessing based on everything we know that Season 1 will be an adaptation of The Man Without Fear as well as the first five Stan Lee issues and probably also the Frank Miller story with Gladiator taking hostages at the museum.

Season 2 will probably be an adaptation of most of Frank Miller's run with Bullseye, Eric Slaughter, Turk Barrett, Elektra and Kirigi as antagonists. Daredevil 181 and Elektra Lives again will probably be consolidated into one story in the penultimate episode and then Daredevil 191 will immediately follow as the season finale. Expect Gladiator to redeem himself and Matt to be stuck in a love triangle between Karen Page and Elektra. And Matt is all alone at the end of the season with Karen leaving town and Elektra dying.

Season 3 will borrow some of Ann Nocenti's storylines involving Bullet, Rotgut and Bushwhacker as well as her Typhoid storyline as Daredevil begins dating again and finds that Heather Glenn kills herself and the other girl he's dating is an assassin ordered to kill him. Matt loses everything over the course of the season and has to deal with Bullseye's return and Electro's and Death Stalker's first appearances as yet other hired guns out for Matt's head. I'd also adapt Parts of a Whole here so Echo can be introduced, then culminate with Born Again as Nuke is Kingpin's final assassin after Matt has spent the first 12 episodes being brought to his lowest level only to finally team up with Captain America in the finale. Matt winds up with Karen Page as his love interest at the end.

Season 4 will hopefully occur at around the same time as Infinity War: Part 2 so Hellspawn can be used for a medley of Fall From Grace and Daredevil 190 as Elektra gets revived. I'd have Matt where he was during Nocenti's run of operating a legal advice clinic while saving up to clear his name so he can be reinstated as a lawyer. That and fighting Stilt Man, Jester and Leap Frog. Then have things come crashing down at the end of an otherwise sunny and optimistic season the season with an adaptation of Guardian Devil with Mister Fear replacing Mysterio.