Wonder Woman 1984 General Discussion and Speculation - Part 2

[geosphere]

I personally feel confident that WW84 will help HBO max quite a bit and its release is not too far from the Snyder Cut's release which will be another boost for the service(whether you like it or not). Not to mention that the service already has a lot of good content outside of those properties.

Wonder Woman is the largest property that is being released this Holiday season in theaters and on a streaming service... period. Nothing is really competing with it. And while theaters are hampered right now some people are still going to them. The Croods 2 had the highest weekend box office gross since the pandemic began just this past thanksgiving. Tenet has grossed $357million. It may hit $400million(I don't know, I haven't been watching it that closely). Something tells me that Wonder Woman is going to be doing a little better than Tenet. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's just my guess. There is literally going to be nothing better for people to do this Christmas. The only buzz worthy thing happening is going to be Wonder Woman and I guarantee you people are going to want to enjoy their Holiday season after going through one of the most dramatic years in our lifetimes. And they're likely to want to see the movie. Whether it be at a theater or subscribing to HBO max, I have a feeling the bet Warner Media is making is going to pay off overall.

 

[Micromind]

With the news that COVID-19 vaccines might be available towards end of December (for UK) and most probably by Feb /Mar 2021 for US, and by Sumner for most parts of the world, has WB miscalculated by releasing WW84 just a few months before ?

I mean, they did wait for one year, they could have waited for another 4 months, by that time the vaccination will bring people back in theaters, I can see Marvel's Black Widow doing well in May 2021.

WB made the mistake of starting marketing early, in hopes that they would get a release window in 2020, and advancing the release date every two weeks, which was a bad strategy as other Studios saw that there was no scenario where they could release their tent-pole movies and they jumped straight to Summer / fall season.

 

[dhandler01]

The vaccine isnt going to be wide spread here for quite some time. Feb/March wont even be close to enough to consider things safe...especially when there is going to be a rather significant portion of the population that will refuse to take it. (because they are brainwashed morons) Most experts I trust say things wont be back to normal until the next Fall/Winter. Remember the vaccine isnt a cure, and it will require at least one booster.

If WB didn't release it now they would be holding it for at least another 6-8 months and there is no guarantee even then people would be flocking to films en masse.

 

[Micromind]

Pandemic situation may or may not be under control by summer but another thing to consider is the crowded Summer-2021, which will not be ideal for many movies releasing in summer, many movies will suffer, it's unavoidable.

One advantage of releasing this in December is that WW84 can keep the marketing spotlight to itself.

 

[dhandler01]

The thing with all of these services is, in reality none of them outside of Netflix have enough content to really keep the average person around. Disney+ has Mandalorian but outside of that the only people I know who use it use it for kids not themselves. I look at it every couple weeks to see if there is anything on there I just need to watch and there just isnt. Max is much the same, though I do like going through TCM and there are a few shows on there I have yet to watch that I mean too and will this winter. (actually there are like 5...but that is cause I didn't have HBO for quite a while)

In reality, the only reason my friends and I use all the services is cause we let each other use our accounts. My buddy with kids has Disney+ so he lets me have a profile on that and in return he gets to have one on Netflix and Max. None of us pay for all of them and have zero desire too. Hell I could have access to even more but I don't watch what I have. I really want to drop Netflix since it mostly sucks and the price is rising but there is enough stuff that pops up every 3-4 months that I can usually justify it.

I don't think Wonder Woman or the Snyder Cut will keep subscribers around. What will keep them around is the same thing that works for all the others...laziness in cancelling. That is what Netflix based their early subscriber "success" on and what these other ones are banking on. The game changer though for things like Disney+ and Max is they have major corporations behind them that can risk more than Netflix can and eat the loss and Disney and WB are major studios who control a vast amount of content. In the coming years you will see even more of their own content coming home. They both still license out their stuff to networks and services. (which is why movies and shows disappear for a while) As they continue to grow though they will become exclusive to the home studio's service. Netflix already showed how big an issue that was when they spent a bajillion dollars to keep Friends an extra year before Max came out. Netflix thrives on their licensed content and sooner or later all the studios are going to be calling that stuff back to base of operations.

 

[dhandler01]

Pandemic situation may or may not be under control by summer but another thing to consider is the crowded Summer-2021, which will not be ideal for many movies releasing in summer, many movies will suffer, it's unavoidable.

One advantage of releasing this in December is that WW84 can keep the marketing spotlight to itself.

Which is why they had to do it this way. It sucks hard but there was no way to release it next year and not have it be hurt by 2020 crapping the bed.

 

[Micromind]

The thing with all of these services is, in reality none of them outside of Netflix have enough content to really keep the average person around. Disney+ has Mandalorian but outside of that the only people I know who use it use it for kids not themselves. I look at it every couple weeks to see if there is anything on there I just need to watch and there just isnt. Max is much the same, though I do like going through TCM and there are a few shows on there I have yet to watch that I mean too and will this winter. (actually there are like 5...but that is cause I didn't have HBO for quite a while)

In reality, the only reason my friends and I use all the services is cause we let each other use our accounts. My buddy with kids has Disney+ so he lets me have a profile on that and in return he gets to have one on Netflix and Max. None of us pay for all of them and have zero desire too. Hell I could have access to even more but I don't watch what I have. I really want to drop Netflix since it mostly sucks and the price is rising but there is enough stuff that pops up every 3-4 months that I can usually justify it.

I don't think Wonder Woman or the Snyder Cut will keep subscribers around. What will keep them around is the same thing that works for all the others...laziness in cancelling. That is what Netflix based their early subscriber "success" on and what these other ones are banking on. The game changer though for things like Disney+ and Max is they have major corporations behind them that can risk more than Netflix can and eat the loss and Disney and WB are major studios who control a vast amount of content. In the coming years you will see even more of their own content coming home. They both still license out their stuff to networks and services. (which is why movies and shows disappear for a while) As they continue to grow though they will become exclusive to the home studio's service. Netflix already showed how big an issue that was when they spent a bajillion dollars to keep Friends an extra year before Max came out. Netflix thrives on their licensed content and sooner or later all the studios are going to be calling that stuff back to base of operations.

Yeah, HBO Max won't be able to keep all the subscribers who will join to see WW84 and/or Zack Snyder's JL. They have difficulty in attracting new subscribers as the "Original" content is not drawing in people.

WB messed up by letting Amazon get hold of rights to Lord of The Rings series. DC is not in same place as Marvel in terms of popularity and HBO Max lacks something equivalent of Star Wars, GL series could have filled that position but they don't even have that ready. There are many other problems too, like lack of International presence.

Edit: Once there's enough original content, subscriptions will increase, right now it's all about getting name recognition which is a bit confusing as the brand HBO already exists lol, but it's having some difficulty in getting people to recognize it as a streaming service similar to Netflix, but by WB.

 

[kguillou]

@dhandler01 the thing with Disney + is, even though we make fun of it for having nothing to watch but the Mandalorian, that service got more than 60 million subscribers in 1 year so theyre definitely doing something right despite not having any new content to watch. Maybe the Marvel and Star Wars libraries were enough to entice people but they are growing at a fast exponential rate.

HBO Max already has great content, theyre just doing a poor job of marketing it.

 

[terry78]

The mandalorian is enough for most people to get that.

 

[frankgutz]

Also the biggest theater chain in USA closed some of them locations, meaning less theaters, no way 2021 will have grossings like we had preCOVID lmao

 

[frankgutz]

yall acting as IF Disney had enough or new content to keep subscribiers besides Mandalorian lol

 

[kguillou]

The mandalorian is enough for most people to get that.

Then by that logic, Wonder Woman’s gotta entice a lot of people to sign up for HBO

 

[UncleSam1776]

yall acting as IF Disney had enough or new content to keep subscribiers besides Mandalorian lol

They have already finished filming 3 Marvel shows that are coming soon and working on more next year. Meanwhile, all I heard for years was that The Snyder Cut is done and just needs some VFX, but here we are 7 months after HBO Max announced it's coming to its service and still no official release date.

 

[Micromind]

Tbh, they did a poor job of planning the release of the service. I think many people would have signed-up if they had content like Green Lantern series, Patty's Amazon series, other series like prequel of James Gunn's TSS, Matt Reeves' The Batman prequel and James Wan's The Trench movie right at the start of their service.

 

[kguillou]

Or how about this: what if HBO Max waited to launch their app til December and then paired Wonder Woman 84 as a launch title? Boom. That would’ve been a Hell of a way to launch to service. Disney + launched with a high profile series ready to go. HBO had nothing.

 

[UncleSam1776]

“Releasing ‘Wonder Woman’ in December is sheer madness; it’s insanity,” said one exhibition boss who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The executive deemed the studio’s international release plan, which begins Dec. 16 in countries including the U.K., France, Holland and Iceland, and continues through to Jan. 28 in Italy, the “worst commercial decision in a long time.”

 

[Micromind]

What does he know ? WB have thought this out.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I have HBO Max, but I believe this movie needs to be seen in the theater so I just bought my ticket for christmas day.

 

[flickchick85]

I have HBO Max, but I believe this movie needs to be seen in the theater so I just bought my ticket for christmas day.

I'm seeing it with family so I won't be able to see it Xmas day, but we're gonna get our IMAX tickets tonight for a few days after Christmas. I have HBO Max too, and I'm honestly not sure I've got the willpower to avoid watching it until our screening, but I'm gonna try.

 

[metaphysician]

Honestly, I can't agree that Disney+ "has nothing but Mandalorian". They have Disney, Marvel, and Star Wars, that is a *huge* chunk of the popular culture. Stuff doesn't have to be new to be appealing and salable, and the subscriber base confirms this. A given person might go "But only the Mandalorian appeals to me", but that is a personal anecdote. 60M subscribers is evidence.

WB really *should* be in a similar situation, vis a vis a giant catalog, for HBO Max. The real problem for them is bad marketing, IMO. They really should have consolidated their random assortment of streaming services much, much sooner.

 

[UncleSam1776]

Honestly, I can't agree that Disney+ "has nothing but Mandalorian". They have Disney, Marvel, and Star Wars, that is a *huge* chunk of the popular culture. Stuff doesn't have to be new to be appealing and salable, and the subscriber base confirms this. A given person might go "But only the Mandalorian appeals to me", but that is a personal anecdote. 60M subscribers is evidence.

WB really *should* be in a similar situation, vis a vis a giant catalog, for HBO Max. The real problem for them is bad marketing, IMO. They really should have consolidated their random assortment of streaming services much, much sooner.

That's not the only problem. We can't ignore that HBO Max is set to lose a lot of DC movies in Jan because WB licensed them to other streaming services.

 

[flickchick85]

Or how about this: what if HBO Max waited to launch their app til December and then paired Wonder Woman 84 as a launch title? Boom. That would’ve been a Hell of a way to launch to service. Disney + launched with a high profile series ready to go. HBO had nothing.

If they had launched with this movie + an actual cool original series like "Raised by Wolves" (not ****ing "Love Life") + S2 of Doom Patrol + that Fresh Prince reunion, their launch would've gotten a TON more positive buzz, imo.

But on the other hand, I'm glad to have had it since May because it's been my favorite streaming service during quarantine.

 

[dhandler01]

@dhandler01 the thing with Disney + is, even though we make fun of it for having nothing to watch but the Mandalorian, that service got more than 60 million subscribers in 1 year so theyre definitely doing something right despite not having any new content to watch. Maybe the Marvel and Star Wars libraries were enough to entice people but they are growing at a fast exponential rate.

HBO Max already has great content, theyre just doing a poor job of marketing it.

Disney was always going to grow because everyone with kids was going to get it. Disney has the "Vault" and because of that they have content no one can match. If they didnt have Star Wars or Marvel they would have every family still getting it for the animated movies and children's programming alone. It was why Disney Channel was always so popular they just have what no one else does.

And yeah they need to find a better way to market Max. I love it myself but it seems half of WB doesn't want to admit it exists.

 

[dhandler01]

Honestly, I can't agree that Disney+ "has nothing but Mandalorian". They have Disney, Marvel, and Star Wars, that is a *huge* chunk of the popular culture. Stuff doesn't have to be new to be appealing and salable, and the subscriber base confirms this. A given person might go "But only the Mandalorian appeals to me", but that is a personal anecdote. 60M subscribers is evidence.

WB really *should* be in a similar situation, vis a vis a giant catalog, for HBO Max. The real problem for them is bad marketing, IMO. They really should have consolidated their random assortment of streaming services much, much sooner.

Netflix had Star Wars before Disney+ did and didn't seem to put up much of a fight to keep it. They seemed more worried about Friends. For streaming they want stuff people will watch a lot. It is like syndication they want repeat viewers on stuff every day not just once in a while. Disney+ probably gets way more from kids watching Frozen 75 times than they do from having the Avengers on there. My friends kids watch that stuff literally every night.

flickchick,

Originally the Friends Reunion was supposed to be available real fast too...but COVID killed that. That was their big launch idea...they just didn't have a backup for any contingency because again, I am not sure half of WB wants to deal with this service. AT&T can barely handle phone service so who knows if they are the right people to be in charge of this

If WB had known that COVID would go this way WW84 as a launch vehicle would have been great.

I will watch WW84 in IMAX (if the theaters around here re-open which is iffy) but my girlfriend wont go to a theater these days so we will watch it in 4k at home. Not ideal but saves me money

 

[geosphere]

Help me out here. Is there a rule that a streaming service has to do gangbusters out of the gate in order to be successful in the long run? You guys are treating the subscription rates of a streaming service like box office number reports and they are not the same thing. Unlike a single movie, buzz for a streaming platform can happen later. Its not front loaded like movies are.