X2's Firey Phoenix or X3's Phoenix

[ChaoticPsylocke]

bwahahahaha! ^^^^^^^^^

some people are so annoying on these boards!

i dont understand how whether or not something is "a nod to the fans" matters when its such an important thing to show and then in the next movie you completely disregard it. its not really something you can pretend didnt happen, or something people didnt see. it clearly wasnt JUST a nod to the fans, but an ACTUAL progression and display of powers. its like if in X4 they bring jean back again, only she is all fiery and stuff with no zombie stuff. it would be completely stupid!

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

oh and you cant really pull up ONE image of phoenix were she appears similar to what we got in X3 and justify what youre saying. for one image in one panel she looked like that without her fiery powers. her powers and aura are what make the IMAGE OF PHOENIX ICONIC. not her eyes and veins in her face.

 

[X-Maniac]

oh and you cant really pull up ONE image of phoenix were she appears similar to what we got in X3 and justify what youre saying. for one image in one panel she looked like that without her fiery powers. her powers and aura are what make the IMAGE OF PHOENIX ICONIC. not her eyes and veins in her face.

I was just pointing out that in some of the Dark Phoenix story, she doesn't always have a firebird - and as Dark Phoenix she does look more evil than Phoenix.

We have no way of knowing if Singer would have used a firebird if he'd made an X3. He might have done, he might not have done. I can't help thinking he wouldn't have had Phoenix with a firebird around her all the time, he'd have gone for something more grounded.

The other thing to bear in mind is that when a different creative team come in to a franchise, they will have their own ideas and interpretations. Which is also what's happening with the Wolverine movie. You'd only get a more seamless continuity if Singer and his crew had made all the movies, and even then there would be some differences as there were between X1 and X2.

But, really, this ship has sailed now.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

aagh! gosh no. why in the crap would singer have not included her aura from one movie to the next? he wouldnt have. im not saying he would put the firebird in, but the aura was clearly going to continue into the series......something that should have continued...

but it is even probable that the firebird would have been in X3 considering you can see it at the end of X2 in the lake.

X3 might not have had the aura take on the appearance of a bird everytime it was brought up, but i think it would def. at some point look like a bird had it been included in the movie.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

i liked both versions.
i just wished they would have made a movie in between the two, just featuring phoenix, not jean turning phoenix or dark phoenix

 

[Rac]

Well duh, X2. They even included the bird/Phoenix Force, even though only as a shadow, it was still cool way of showing what would have come next.

 

[Nathan]

4 votes for X3. Shame.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

LOL at people defending X3's "creative vision" of the Phoenix.

*****, please.

We all know the firebird was both in the script and previs for X3. The only reason Phoenix looked like that was time and money constraints.

It's like you seeing a piece of **** made by a dog and trying to find this whole philosofical meaning behind it.

 

[roxette]

Who the Eff voted X3????

that would be me

 

[Rogue_10]

Voted for X2 Phoenix. It's more closer to comics. As it was said fire tooks over her body. If in X-Men 3 there would've been more advanced version of this - that would've been a lot better I think.
For instance, I've seen fan-made modified videos on YouTube where fans add "fire" over her. It's really super. But... still it's fanmade. In studio it would've been a lot more better. And I regret of many deleted scenes in X-Men 3. So... I guess X2 version of Phoenix was better.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

bwahahahaha! ^^^^^^^^^

some people are so annoying on these boards!

i dont understand how whether or not something is "a nod to the fans" matters when its such an important thing to show and then in the next movie you completely disregard it. its not really something you can pretend didnt happen, or something people didnt see. it clearly wasnt JUST a nod to the fans, but an ACTUAL progression and display of powers. its like if in X4 they bring jean back again, only she is all fiery and stuff with no zombie stuff. it would be completely stupid!

I actualy disagree with this, in fact I think its the only way they could do it. If yu say that she was The Dark Phoenix in X3 than that explains aways the evil zombiesque styling she had, and if she came back with the firey glow than she could be The Phoenix, champion of good. It would be an easy transition if they decided to make an X4 and not **** it up.

 

[Peter McCabe]

LOL at people defending X3's "creative vision" of the Phoenix.

*****, please.

We all know the firebird was both in the script and previs for X3. The only reason Phoenix looked like that was time and money constraints.

It's like you seeing a piece of **** made by a dog and trying to find this whole philosofical meaning behind it.

This whole post is a piece of **** [made by a dog], that has no philosophical meaning at all.

If you're gonna step into a discussion, act a little mature or expect nothing but the above in return.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

theres really no need for you to become so aggressive either.

 

[Slim]

And he does have a point about the time and money constraints. I bet they were thinking "oh crap, this project is so rushed that we have no time to develop creative special effects, and the money is running out so we're going to have to settle with veins and yellow skin" more than they were thinking "we need something organic!" That sounds like more of an excuse after the fact, and a poor one at that.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well duh, X2. They even included the bird/Phoenix Force, even though only as a shadow, it was still cool way of showing what would have come next.

I don't think you can ever say it "would have come next" as though it were that definite. Singer was already thinking about Superman at that point, and then he left to do it. The end of the movie was a nice piece of bookending (with the repeated voiceover) and a hint at possibilities. But Singer was so in love with continuing his vision that he...errrm... walked away from it.

 

[Slim]

If Singer would have stayed, than I think seeing a continuation of the X2 effect is an extremely safe assumption. What reason would he have to go against what he established? We all know that we can't assume such things 100%, but all reason points towards a more true phoenix effect under Singer.

Someone else could have carried on Singer's vision but... errm... we got Ratner's creative team

 

[bullets]

I liked the idea of the fire because it makes jean and phoenix feel like seperate entities .
Singers vision would of seen them separated at the end. It would of been better...

 

[bullets]

True, the fans of the source material hated it.

But those fans don't pay the bills.

General audiences who don't read comics do.

Yeah , Screw the Fans.

Hopefully no one in the general audience will be inspired to follow the comics .

 

[X-Maniac]

If Singer would have stayed, than I think seeing a continuation of the X2 effect is an extremely safe assumption. What reason would he have to go against what he established? We all know that we can't assume such things 100%, but all reason points towards a more true phoenix effect under Singer.

Someone else could have carried on Singer's vision but... errm... we got Ratner's creative team

Well, there's no way of knowing for sure.

I'd have liked to see a proper firebird when Jean rose from the lake, I think that would have been a good idea to keep the flow from the end of X2. It might also have been good to add some more effects whsn she goes into full Dark Phoenix mode on Alcatraz.

But..time...money...creative ideas... different team...

As I said, three years on, this ship has sailed...

 

[chaseter]

You’re still exercising your right to complain about Sabretooth’s portrayal in X-Men 10 years later. I don’t see how this is any different.

HAHAHAHAHAHAt:

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I was just pointing out that in some of the Dark Phoenix story, she doesn't always have a firebird - and as Dark Phoenix she does look more evil than Phoenix.

We have no way of knowing if Singer would have used a firebird if he'd made an X3. He might have done, he might not have done. I can't help thinking he wouldn't have had Phoenix with a firebird around her all the time, he'd have gone for something more grounded.

The other thing to bear in mind is that when a different creative team come in to a franchise, they will have their own ideas and interpretations. Which is also what's happening with the Wolverine movie. You'd only get a more seamless continuity if Singer and his crew had made all the movies, and even then there would be some differences as there were between X1 and X2.

But, really, this ship has sailed now.

I'm sorry to come accross bluntly but, WHAT? Singer wouldnt have just disregarded the firebird in X3 after introducing it in X2. There was absolutely no reason for him to exclude it and EVERY reason for him to keep it.

But no, Ratner decided to copy Buffy instead.

As for the poll, X2 by a mile, that version of The Pheonix had me watching in awe and excitement, in X3, I watched in confusion, dissapointment, and also disbelief. They had the right idea with the split personality stuff, but the execution was horrid.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm sorry to come accross bluntly but, WHAT? Singer wouldnt have just disregarded the firebird in X3 after introducing it in X2. There was absolutely no reason for him to exclude it and EVERY reason for him to keep it.

But, as I said, there is no way of knowing for sure what Singer would have chosen to do or how Singer's X3 would have finally turned out. He might have had to leave a firebird out for budgetary reasons for all we know.

You can't talk in absolutes and facts about something (Singer's X3) that never happened and doesn't exist.

 

[CB Fan]

I voted for X2's pheonix. Singer should have just shown the pheonix rising out of the water and quickly cut to the credits at the end of the 2nd movie, that way the next movie would have had to include the aura. I was not against the pheonix in X3 just liked what the X2 pheonix would have become alot more.

I would imagine something like this:

Simply Amazing!

 

[X-Maniac]

I voted for X2's pheonix. Singer should have just shown the pheonix rising out of the water and quickly cut to the credits at the end of the 2nd movie, that way the next movie would have had to include the aura. I was not against the pheonix in X3 just liked what the X2 pheonix would have become alot more.

I would imagine something like this:

Simply Amazing!

It is an incredible image, for sure, as were the others done by the artist.I'd love them framed for my wall. But it is 'just' a piece of imaginative art done way before the movie.

 

[CB Fan]

^Are you sure that that was done 'way before the movie', I mean how would the artist know that the climax of the film would take place in San Francisco? Some of the other artwork that he's done was on point with the movie as well.
Regardless I do understand how a huge Fire bird coming out of water could confuse some people.
To me it all goes back to the argument of the inclusion of fantasy in the films, should the X-Films have included the Shi'ar, which could definately have taken away from the super realistic tones of the films.