The Official WONDER WOMAN Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Mercurius]

Yeah, it might be, Drz. I don't know, it kind of kills it for me, honestly.



Well, she never looked angry to begin with. I don't know how you got that from anything that's been shown from the get-go.

And, though I have questioned her in the role, from an appearance standpoint she looks pretty great. I admit she doesn't quite invoke Diana as we know her (or as I envision her), but there's something about her appearance that invokes what could be a younger version of the character.

Bonny,

what I'm surprised with is the amount of sympathy this trash pilot is finding here. It makes me think everybody was so anxious about getting whatever they would come up with that it has annihilated any objective criticism.

IF this level of cheapness (in casting and costume and writing) is to continue like that, superhero stuff won't live much longer.

I was REALLY wanting a faithful costume: that one is not so distant of it. But the way it looks plastic where it should look like metal, and the cloth material (not to say the design), all that is very poor.

And Palicki is not spot on. Not-at-all. One takes her as WW after thinking: "alright, not that bad, could be worse".

The prospects are no good. And it is ridiculous how those sites are saying that the changes were made to meet the demand from fans.

I don't think the production did it like that. They have just appeased the more obvious demand, which is no blue boots. And perhaps the outrageous heavy make up that they've dropped as well.

The rest is exactly the same cheap thing.

 

[BrianWilly]

Um well, I don't think you're finding "sympathy" for the pilot. We've been discussing the costume; you've been discussing the costume, and frankly some of us really like the costume. I think there's some shots of it that look totally awesome and makes Palicki really look like Wonder Woman. But I don't remember anyone saying anything particularly encouraging about the show itself.

In fact, let's take a moment to focus on more reasons why the show will probably blow. In particular, some casting choices that have been revealed but I don't think anyone has talked about here.

That new Knight Rider guy as Steve Trevor. I sure hope this ****er can act because he doesn't look a thing like how Steve should look.

Etta Candy is black. Alright then.

 

[fifthfiend]

Just when you thought it might be aight

HYPODERMIC NEEDLES, traditional Amazonian crimes-fighting implement

 

[BrianWilly]

what

 

[Mystirious]

Whut

No really what is this I don't even

 

[hippie_hunter]

**** it. I give up any hope of this damn show being any good.

 

[BrianWilly]

So, stuff that's less likely to make me regurgitate the fried rice I just had:

I finally got around to reading issue 609 and I wasn't disappointed. Much has been made out of Diana basically become Promethea and Hester writing the best Dr. Psycho since...hell, I don't even know since when...but I really liked the scene later on in the book with her fighting and embracing the elements to reach her...soul, spirit? Seriously, the way the narrative describes her connection to water, earth, air, and fire was so perfect and true to her canon that I'm just going to go ahead and assume that JMS had nothing to do with it. This is what people read Wonder Woman for, not urban vigilante nonsense.

Something that did irk me, though, was how the scene tried to make it out like there's all these different versions of Diana. And I'm not talking about the iconic lives bit that Dr. Psycho was giving her, I'm talking about later on with her in all those different costumes, trying to give the impression that she's been through all these divergent roles and identities or whatever. It looked cool, sure, but honestly...about 80% of those "different identities" was just the same exact identity -- post-Crisis Diana of Themyscira -- wearing different outfits. It's like if you take pictures of someone wearing different-colored T-shirts throughout the years and was like "LOOK HOW MUCH HE'S CHANGED, LOOK AT THOSE IDENTITIES, SO DIFFERENT."

I mean, it's the same with the cover. The intent was to portray all these different "incarnations" of Wonder Woman fighting with each other for supremacy, but...the problem is there aren't actually that many incarnations of her. And so they ran out of incarnations to use and have to pad it out with her as a Star Sapphire and as a Black Lantern. Those aren't different incarnations, those are the same incarnations wearing a different freaking jumpsuit. It feels dishonest. Generally, I don't like how writers project their own inability to properly identify Diana onto the character itself, make it seem like she doesn't know who she is and so has to go through all these different identities or whatever. The best Wonder Woman writers have never done this. And so I'm choosing to believe that this part was all JMS.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I thought it was a manip at first...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Just when you thought it might be aight

HYPODERMIC NEEDLES, traditional Amazonian crimes-fighting implement

I now think this show might be awesome, but for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Drz]

IF this level of cheapness (in casting and costume and writing) is to continue like that, superhero stuff won't live much longer.

Yes because Smallville is a clear indication how superhero stuff can never last long periods such as 10 seasons or so.

 

[Mystirious]

The new issue of Wonder Woman was my favouitest issue of Odyssey

No one died in it!

And it had fab writing and art. Hope the coming issues are as good as this one was

I now think this show might be awesome, but for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Bonny,

what I'm surprised with is the amount of sympathy this trash pilot is finding here. It makes me think everybody was so anxious about getting whatever they would come up with that it has annihilated any objective criticism.

IF this level of cheapness (in casting and costume and writing) is to continue like that, superhero stuff won't live much longer.

I was REALLY wanting a faithful costume: that one is not so distant of it. But the way it looks plastic where it should look like metal, and the cloth material (not to say the design), all that is very poor.

And Palicki is not spot on. Not-at-all. One takes her as WW after thinking: "alright, not that bad, could be worse".

The prospects are no good. And it is ridiculous how those sites are saying that the changes were made to meet the demand from fans.

I don't think the production did it like that. They have just appeased the more obvious demand, which is no blue boots. And perhaps the outrageous heavy make up that they've dropped as well.

The rest is exactly the same cheap thing.

Well, I'm not really having all that much sympathy for the pilot in the broad sense of things. Personally speaking, I'm remaining neutral on the whole thing until it actually gets picked up; I just don't see the point in getting worked all that up over something that still has real possibility of just being an iTunes movie, at best.

I was just commenting on your 'Angry American' comment, because she doesn't look that angry in anything we've seen from her. She just...doesn't. Even in the shots with her in action, she only looks kind of anger in the sense of anyone being anger in that situation. Now, her characterization may come off that way, like that section of the script fifth just posted from (which, by the way, I hope is not real, because that's ****ing awful), but I don't see how you're making that judgment.

And, no, she's not spot on, but that's because there's no such thing as a spot on for Wonder Woman. Like I said, she's not what I think Diana should translate to, but I can totally see her as a younger version of the character, more of a Wonder Girl coming into Wonder Womanhood, if you will. I can see that.

So, stuff that's less likely to make me regurgitate the fried rice I just had:

I finally got around to reading issue 609 and I wasn't disappointed. Much has been made out of Diana basically become Promethea and Hester writing the best Dr. Psycho since...hell, I don't even know since when...but I really liked the scene later on in the book with her fighting and embracing the elements to reach her...soul, spirit? Seriously, the way the narrative describes her connection to water, earth, air, and fire was so perfect and true to her canon that I'm just going to go ahead and assume that JMS had nothing to do with it. This is what people read Wonder Woman for, not urban vigilante nonsense.

Something that did irk me, though, was how the scene tried to make it out like there's all these different versions of Diana. And I'm not talking about the iconic lives bit that Dr. Psycho was giving her, I'm talking about later on with her in all those different costumes, trying to give the impression that she's been through all these divergent roles and identities or whatever. It looked cool, sure, but honestly...about 80% of those "different identities" was just the same exact identity -- post-Crisis Diana of Themyscira -- wearing different outfits. It's like if you take pictures of someone wearing different-colored T-shirts throughout the years and was like "LOOK HOW MUCH HE'S CHANGED, LOOK AT THOSE IDENTITIES, SO DIFFERENT."

I mean, it's the same with the cover. The intent was to portray all these different "incarnations" of Wonder Woman fighting with each other for supremacy, but...the problem is there aren't actually that many incarnations of her. And so they ran out of incarnations to use and have to pad it out with her as a Star Sapphire and as a Black Lantern. Those aren't different incarnations, those are the same incarnations wearing a different freaking jumpsuit. It feels dishonest. Generally, I don't like how writers project their own inability to properly identify Diana onto the character itself, make it seem like she doesn't know who she is and so has to go through all these different identities or whatever. The best Wonder Woman writers have never done this. And so I'm choosing to believe that this part was all JMS.

Well, you know, **** the world, I didn't think of that connection at all. Good catch.

 

[Manic]

Just when you thought it might be aight

HYPODERMIC NEEDLES, traditional Amazonian crimes-fighting implement

As I was reading that, I was like "Yay, lasso action!" Then I got to the needle. I don't know if that's supposed to be Diana's re-re way of incapacitating her foes on this show, or if the plot simply requires her to defeat the bad guy by injecting him with a cure to something that Cale did to him.

 

[Mystirious]

The issue reminded me of Promethea and that be a good thing

Also dug Etta Candy getting a cameo at the end of the issue too

Hey Tron Bonne who is that in your brand new avatar

 

[BrianWilly]

As I was reading that, I was like "Yay, lasso action!" Then I got to the needle. I don't know if that's supposed to be Diana's re-re way of incapacitating her foes on this show, or if the plot simply requires her to defeat the bad guy by injecting him with a cure to something that Cale did to him.

Oh, well, that would actually kind of make sense. Especially considering she doesn't actually use the needle until he's unconscious.

Please be that.

Well, you know, **** the world, I didn't think of that connection at all. Good catch.

Ah, hell, I can't take credit; I got it from somewhere else.

 

[Mystirious]

Oh, well, that would actually kind of make sense. Especially considering she doesn't actually use the needle until he's unconscious.

Please be that.

Please please let it be that

 

[Motown Marvel]

what the hell is this needle crap? i hope to god her lasso still compels the truth rather than her going around sticking people with sodium pentathol.

 

[Manic]

what the hell is this needle crap? i hope to god her lasso still compels the truth rather than her going around sticking people with sodium pentathol.

The very idea is as hilarious as it is blasphemous.

 

[Tron Bonne]

The issue reminded me of Promethea and that be a good thing

Also dug Etta Candy getting a cameo at the end of the issue too

Hey Tron Bonne who is that in your brand new avatar

From Scarlet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_(Marvel_Comics)

Ah, hell, I can't take credit; I got it from somewhere else.

Well, **** you

Nah, seriously, that's pretty neat. Kind of a tinge of irony, though, since I think Promethea had some basis in the Wonder Woman(ish?) archetype. Good irony and all, though.

Also, looks like DC is doing some retro-active one shots with a lot of different characters, which has a creative team that harkens back to era in which they served on the title. Here's Wonder Woman's:

Wonder Woman's will be by: Dennis O’Neil (‘70s), Roy Thomas (‘80s), and William Messner-Loebs (‘90s).


....


Each one-shot will have 26 pages of all-new story, plus 20 pages of classic stories, and run $4.99 a pop.

 

[Mystirious]

Scarlet sounds interesting Tron Bonne has it been good so far

The very idea is as hilarious as it is blasphemous.

You know you would watch it

 

[Nave 'Torment']

what I'm surprised with is the amount of sympathy this trash pilot is finding here. It makes me think everybody was so anxious about getting whatever they would come up with that it has annihilated any objective criticism.

IF this level of cheapness (in casting and costume and writing) is to continue like that, superhero stuff won't live much longer.

I was REALLY wanting a faithful costume: that one is not so distant of it. But the way it looks plastic where it should look like metal, and the cloth material (not to say the design), all that is very poor.

I know this isn't my conversation but what the heck. I don't think any one is able to objectively criticise this thing without first watching the whole thing. Even the changes to the costume might feel perfect in the context of the show. I am not trying to promote an overtly naive sense of optimism, but the same should be said about flat out burning this without giving it a chance. Superheroes have become a genre, and to be honest, there are bigger and perhaps better 'stuff' out there beside this show that will sustain the genre. Hell, even that upcoming Wonder Woman movie that the WB exec hinted at could ameliorate whatever damage this show does to WW, female superheroes, DC characters, or even superheroes in general.

As a fan of WW the costume they're using doesn't hurt me that much. Yes, the material is cheap, the tiara looks stupid, and some of the designs are just plain bad, but at the same time I'm glad they retained some characteristics of the original suit. I like the design better than what we're seeing in Odyssey at least. It's like Willy says, no one is sympathising, we're discussing. And if you just look around, you'll find overly outraged people who think they know everything about Wonder Woman claiming brilliantly awesometistical ideas about how things should or shouldn't work. Are WW fans glad that there's a show coming out? Of course we are! Are we giving it a chance despite the 'cheapness'? Yes, at least I am. Is that too optimistic? Not one bit.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I finally got around to reading issue 609 and I wasn't disappointed. Much has been made out of Diana basically become Promethea and Hester writing the best Dr. Psycho since...hell, I don't even know since when...but I really liked the scene later on in the book with her fighting and embracing the elements to reach her...soul, spirit? Seriously, the way the narrative describes her connection to water, earth, air, and fire was so perfect and true to her canon that I'm just going to go ahead and assume that JMS had nothing to do with it. This is what people read Wonder Woman for, not urban vigilante nonsense.

Something that did irk me, though, was how the scene tried to make it out like there's all these different versions of Diana. And I'm not talking about the iconic lives bit that Dr. Psycho was giving her, I'm talking about later on with her in all those different costumes, trying to give the impression that she's been through all these divergent roles and identities or whatever. It looked cool, sure, but honestly...about 80% of those "different identities" was just the same exact identity -- post-Crisis Diana of Themyscira -- wearing different outfits. It's like if you take pictures of someone wearing different-colored T-shirts throughout the years and was like "LOOK HOW MUCH HE'S CHANGED, LOOK AT THOSE IDENTITIES, SO DIFFERENT."

I mean, it's the same with the cover. The intent was to portray all these different "incarnations" of Wonder Woman fighting with each other for supremacy, but...the problem is there aren't actually that many incarnations of her. And so they ran out of incarnations to use and have to pad it out with her as a Star Sapphire and as a Black Lantern. Those aren't different incarnations, those are the same incarnations wearing a different freaking jumpsuit. It feels dishonest. Generally, I don't like how writers project their own inability to properly identify Diana onto the character itself, make it seem like she doesn't know who she is and so has to go through all these different identities or whatever. The best Wonder Woman writers have never done this. And so I'm choosing to believe that this part was all JMS.

I think that the 'multiple Wonder Women existing in many different forms/realities/identities' is too akin to Donna Troia's situation from a while back. It's also getting tiresome that every once in a while we're forced to read a 'look back at the many lives of character A'. That's homework for the writer, not content for his writing. Unless of course it's a one-off piece, or an OGN, but to see this reflected in the mainstream story (again) feels formulaic rather than original. I know what you mean about being cheated of seeing any true multiplicity in the incarnations they presented, but that's the way it will be if they keep on doing this. The first thing I thought of was Zero Hour, and how other 'incarnations' of the same character came together etc. and frankly it isn't exactly an original idea anymore.

It's true that I'm enjoying Hester's writing (Psycho!), he seems to have a firm grasp about the character, but I'm reading each issue and feeling that there's so much more to be desired.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

And, no, she's not spot on, but that's because there's no such thing as a spot on for Wonder Woman. Like I said, she's not what I think Diana should translate to, but I can totally see her as a younger version of the character, more of a Wonder Girl coming into Wonder Womanhood, if you will. I can see that.

My sentiments exactly. Palicki is a decent cast for the urban WW who's condoning all the "vigilante nonsense", she might do a good job at it. She has that 'fledgling superhero' aspect, perhaps the impression is spurred on by what we've heard about the show, but it's there.

What I don't see in her is the 'stranger in a strange land' Diana who came to Patriarch's World, the Princess of Themyscira who is discovering the world beyond her home. That's the 'young Diana' for me. And who knows, maybe that's what we'll see, but somehow a woman who is working as a CEO just doesn't exude that level of innocence.

Also, looks like DC is doing some retro-active one shots with a lot of different characters, which has a creative team that harkens back to era in which they served on the title. Here's Wonder Woman's:

Is this for real? Cool ! An approach like THIS is more commendable than the "all multiverse realities converge together" angle.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Um well, I don't think you're finding "sympathy" for the pilot. We've been discussing the costume; you've been discussing the costume, and frankly some of us really like the costume. I think there's some shots of it that look totally awesome and makes Palicki really look like Wonder Woman. But I don't remember anyone saying anything particularly encouraging about the show itself.

In fact, let's take a moment to focus on more reasons why the show will probably blow. In particular, some casting choices that have been revealed but I don't think anyone has talked about here.

That new Knight Rider guy as Steve Trevor. I sure hope this ****er can act because he doesn't look a thing like how Steve should look.

Etta Candy is black. Alright then.

The Knight Rider guy cant act. It just shows how cheap the show will be when it comes to plot and casting. Random beefcake just got cast as her love interest.

I dont mind Etta being black or thin. Wasnt Kingpin awesome despite being black in DD? The big problem is that they first wrote the show and then gave the characters names from the comics, so its not that Etta is black, its that she'll be Etta in name only. If i am not mistaken Etta wont be her friend but some other chick who is a drug addict in the comics. See what i mean?

Please please let it be that

It could be that WW is forcing drugs on people, creating drug addicts. She and her love interest [BLACKOUT]Arsenal[/BLACKOUT] do drugs and taffy cats.

 

[Mr. Earle]

So, stuff that's less likely to make me regurgitate the fried rice I just had:

I finally got around to reading issue 609 and I wasn't disappointed. Much has been made out of Diana basically become Promethea and Hester writing the best Dr. Psycho since...hell, I don't even know since when...but I really liked the scene later on in the book with her fighting and embracing the elements to reach her...soul, spirit? Seriously, the way the narrative describes her connection to water, earth, air, and fire was so perfect and true to her canon that I'm just going to go ahead and assume that JMS had nothing to do with it. This is what people read Wonder Woman for, not urban vigilante nonsense.

Something that did irk me, though, was how the scene tried to make it out like there's all these different versions of Diana. And I'm not talking about the iconic lives bit that Dr. Psycho was giving her, I'm talking about later on with her in all those different costumes, trying to give the impression that she's been through all these divergent roles and identities or whatever. It looked cool, sure, but honestly...about 80% of those "different identities" was just the same exact identity -- post-Crisis Diana of Themyscira -- wearing different outfits. It's like if you take pictures of someone wearing different-colored T-shirts throughout the years and was like "LOOK HOW MUCH HE'S CHANGED, LOOK AT THOSE IDENTITIES, SO DIFFERENT."

I mean, it's the same with the cover. The intent was to portray all these different "incarnations" of Wonder Woman fighting with each other for supremacy, but...the problem is there aren't actually that many incarnations of her. And so they ran out of incarnations to use and have to pad it out with her as a Star Sapphire and as a Black Lantern. Those aren't different incarnations, those are the same incarnations wearing a different freaking jumpsuit. It feels dishonest. Generally, I don't like how writers project their own inability to properly identify Diana onto the character itself, make it seem like she doesn't know who she is and so has to go through all these different identities or whatever. The best Wonder Woman writers have never done this. And so I'm choosing to believe that this part was all JMS.

I agree, however i didnt like the scenes where she fights the elements. It felt cheesy and in your face. "Here Diana is about to drown and then some rocks fall on her. She battled the elements, its so deep." No its not, its crap. It wasnt some big ordeal or test, or fight with the elements with a deeper meaning. She just went through them in 2 pages and that's supposed to mean something?

And the whole book is written like that. Diana doesnt do anything herself, she's constantly told by someone what she needs to do, she then does it, more Amazons die and we have some ham fisted DEEP moment like the one with elements. They re trying to be deep but its crap.

So now what? What spirit/villain/friend is gonna appear next and tell her what to do?