Official JLA discussion thread - Part 1

[hippie_hunter]

I would throw up if DC ever made any of their gay characters heterosexual as its a repulsive thought and it would be bigoted to do so the thought of any gay charactee being turned straight disgusts me and it would be the only reason I need to stop buying all DC products

But Babs and Black Canary have never been defined as heterosexual though. I consider them both bisexual

I consider any characters sexuality open to interpretation unless they state that their gay/bi/straight

Except Black Canary and Batgirl have been firmly defined as heterosexual characters. Someone doesn't have to say "I'm straight" to be defined as a heterosexual character.

When you have every single love interest of both Barbara Gordon and Black Canary being men and their primary love interests both being men, I think that firmly establishes them both as heterosexual characters.

All DC's gay and Bi characters have stated their sexuality. As far as I'm concerned thats the end of the story and if DC ever made any of them heterosexual I would be repulsed and disgusted and boycott DC forever

Except DC's gay characters don't need to say that they're gay. You know how I know that they're gay? Their actions.

 

[Mystirious]

We'll just have to agree to disagree hippie_hunter

If you don't think they are bi that's fair enough. I just think its open to interpretation unless they state their sexuality. Or show interest in another character of the same gender

I'm not saying they're the one true pairing just that I ship them together

 

[Spike_x1]

I don't think them dating men proves they're straight they could still be bisexual

They are definitely not gay but in my opinion they are definitely bi and I would love it if her and Black Canary got together. I think they'd be a great couple

We'll just have to agree to disagree hippie_hunter

If you don't think they are bi that's fair enough. I just think its open to interpretation unless they state their sexuality. Or show interest in another character of the same gender

I'm not saying they're the one true pairing just that I ship them together

Kind of conflicting statements there. Something can't be definite while still being open to interpretation.

I'm also still eager to read where Simone said that she specifically wrote them as bisexual.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I don't think them dating men proves they're straight they could still be bisexual

They are definitely not gay but in my opinion they are definitely bi and I would love it if her and Black Canary got together. I think they'd be a great couple

well then i dont think batwoman dating chicks makes her gay and still believe she could be bi. (see how that works?)

i understand you prefer them to be bi, because that would make you personally enjoy the characters more. and if you wanna keep that fan-dream alive in your head in order to continue enjoying the stories to your fullest extent, more power to ya. whatever works for you. but you cant on an honeset rational level tell us they are bi when they are clearly straight, and established as much.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Kind of conflicting statements there. Something can't be definite while still being open to interpretation.

Maybe just a poor choice of words, but I think that even though she feels it's open for interpretation, she feels strongly about her own viewpoint. It makes sense.

 

[Spike_x1]

Maybe just a poor choice of words, but I think that even though she feels it's open for interpretation, she feels strongly about her own viewpoint. It makes sense.

Except for the fact that it contradicts itself, yeah, it makes sense. You can't say that, according to your opinion, something is a definite fact (saying an opinion on a topic is definite is pretty arguable in and of itself), and then go on to say that, according to your opinion again, that same subject is open to interpretation.

Adam West's Batman is definitely the one true true Batman, but that's open to debate. See how it doesn't make sense?

But yeah, I'm chopping it up to a poor choice of words.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Fine, if you're really going to analyze every word, she never said the word "fact." You put that word in her mouth. She basically said, "in my opinion, it's definitely this...", meaning she is firm in her viewpoint of the character's sexuality.

Give it a rest.

 

[Spike_x1]

Fine, if you're really going to analyze every word, she never said the word "fact." You put that word in her mouth. She basically said, "in my opinion, it's definitely this...", meaning she is firm in her viewpoint of the character's sexuality.

De-fi-nite

Adjective

1. Clearly defined; factual; precise; exact.

Give it a rest.

If you ignore the word "definite," the original statement is fine. I tried to give it a rest when I said I was letting it go as a simple poor choice of words. You're the one who brought it back up. All I did was open a dictionary.

 

[Mystirious]

Yep it was a poor choice of words

Obviously until a story firmly establishes their orientation its open to interpretation

I should have said 'I strongly believe that they are bisexual' rather than saying it like it was a fact

Kind of conflicting statements there. Something can't be definite while still being open to interpretation.

I'm also still eager to read where Simone said that she specifically wrote them as bisexual.

She's said that the subtext was deliberate on Tumblr and I believe on her Twitter as well

well then i dont think batwoman dating chicks makes her gay and still believe she could be bi. (see how that works?)

Nope she's gay

She's stated that she's gay and she is only interested in women

She's not bisexual

 

[RoughNTumble]

I hope you guys only argue about stuff like this on the internet.

Ever heard of choosing wisely the hill to die on?

>__________________>

 

[Anubis]

No.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Nope she's gay

She's stated that she's gay and she is only interested in women

She's not bisexual

and dinah said "i do" to ollie. and has only dated men.

she's not bisexual.

 

[Mystirious]

Pfft I've dated men I'm still bisexual

Lets just drop it guys. I think those two are Bi and I'm always going to. I dont want to force anyone else to think they are but nothing is going to convince me they're not either

Let's just agree to disagree about my interpretation of the sexuality of two fictional characters and talk about JLA

 

[hippie_hunter]

Her bachelorette party was filled with nothing but beef cake.

 

[twylight]

GOSH DANG IT! I finally got a copy of JLA and was all 'OMG I can post in the thread!' And I find... this.

THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO SEE! INSTEAD WE STILL GET THE SAME OL' TIRED PAIRINGS OF BATMAN AND SELENA KYLE, SUPERMAN WILL END UP WITH LOIS AGAIN.....CANARY AND GA....

Dinah/Bruce pairings are fun in Elseworld/Non-Canon stories because they're just that. non-canon. It's that fun 'might have been'.

Honestly, as a female reader I take offense that characters need to be paired up at all. Dinah and Babs went a long time each in various BoP runs without having 'men' in their lives. Ditto for Selena, Helena, Kate, etc..etc..

When Dinah was in the Green Arrow books back in the day she was nothing more than a prop. A well written prop, because at least Grell went into the fall out of things. But then she slipped back into being nothing and was only used to move forward GA storylines. Then they let her loose with bad writers and she sucked all on her own because everyone was like 'WTF do I do with her without GA around??'
When they decided to have the BC/GA marriage, it was nothing but a publicity stunt by DC and her characterization plummeted. Dinah again became nothing more than a fun, sexy sidekick for GA.
Notice a pattern? What makes you think a BC/Batman match-up would be any different or in anyway good for both characters. At least with Catwoman she's always been presented as independent and has never, in my experience, been toed into the corner as being a sidekick as BC has been.

Someone once said, that before the marriage Dinah and Ollie were the best never married, divorced characters. I think the same. They both work as independents but with the added ties of 'children' in the mix.

All of that aside. They did a soft reboot of Dinah from my understanding. Most of her past still goes, except for her being a legacy character. So a Dinah/Bats pairing seems.. weird. They hardly interact, and you keep using the All-Star Batman & robin image which pretty much makes me wonder about your taste in comics

And Simone has said many times on her Tumblr that all the subtext between them is completely intentional on her part

Really? I'd like links, not because I'm being argumentative, but because I am a reference girl! I actually remember this one from back in the day *and just went to find it*:

Hmm.

First, welcome, Kate! Hooray! Glad you're here and please keep posting cool threads.

"Implied" is the wrong word. What I feel about Birds of Prey is that I wanted it to be interactive, I wanted each reader to get a slightly different experience because some things were deliberately meant to be filled in painlessly.

So, my intention was never to negate that. Clearly Dinah and Babs love each other like crazy. Whether they are crazy IN love, that's up to the reader, but I didn't want to negate it.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=10169294&postcount=4

So, if you're straight, you're gonna see them as straight. If you're bi, you're gonna see them as bi. If you're gay... you get the picture. But I don't think comic characters have to at some point 'state' their sexuality. Actions speak louder than words. Dinah's been married twice (granted one was right out of HS and the other a stupid choice) and involved with a plethora of men. Nothing in that track record shows me she's gay, perhaps bi, but again... never seen an interest in other women in her. Except for of course those panels everyone throws up for 'proof'.

Now for my opinion: As a long time BC fan, I'd be royally pissed with DC if they retconned a gay interaction with her in, or had her hook up with Babs. It would look like a cheap and shoehorned way to add 'diversity' to their line-up, instant shock value (just like that terrible wedding). They create new characters all the time. They can create gay ones, or make gay's out of older, barely used characters (I totally think Hazard would be gay btw if they ever used her as more than background).
I literally have a Babs/Dinah friendship with my best friend, it's obvious to both of us the subtext that people can see with us but I am in no way interested in her romantically, and vice versa (I think she is bi though....so who knows?). So it is extremely insulting that people automatically think that such a close friendship is because of sexual tension.

So, no, no one is going to force you into an opinion Mysti. But you mention Babs/Dinah an awful lot.

AQUAMAN WAS ****ING AMAZING!!!!!!!!!111!1!!!1!

It really was! Trusty, I take back everything I ever said about him.. he's totally 'do-able' too. Pity he's got Mera

Dinah and Wonder Woman. Huh? HUH?

There was so much tension between the two in those training panels.

.. Now I need to re-think my JLA post!

 

[Mystirious]

Huh I'd actually never seen that post you posted before. I was thinking of posts Simone had made on Tumblr where there are quite a few Dinah/Barbara fans. Will try and find links

In any case like I said if you dont like the characters together fair enough

Agree about Dinah and Ollie's marriage too it just seemed to make both characters less interesting

 

[SuperFerret]

Just because one writer says that something is going on, doesn't make it true for all interpretations, and anyway, my research has turned up that Dinah, at least, has stated that's she's "Heterosexual to the bone", and though it seems like it wasn't Simone's intent (I think the line was supposed to be "75% hetero"), what is written is what becomes canonical, not the intent behind the writing.

Also, just to finally resolve some of my curiosity, Mysti do you have a favorite heterosexual character that you would like to see remain heterosexual?

 

[Mystirious]

Honestly not really because I do prefer reading lgbt romance stories instead of straight ones

If a character had previously had serious relationships with the opposite sex I would rather they were revealed to be bi instead of gay though because it would make more sense for the character

 

[HighFivingMF]

She wants Dick to stay straight. Because she pretends not to think the Grayson is hot stuff.

 

[SuperFerret]

But wouldn't keeping them straight make the most sense? Or are you one of those people who think that everyone is bi?

 

[Mystirious]

That said i dont like Aquaman or Superman any less because they have so far been portrayed as heterosexual and I would be totally fine if they always were

I'm not demanding DC make all characters bisexual just saying there are lots of same sex pairings I'd like to see and enjoy reading about

 

[trustyside-kick]

Honestly not really because I do prefer reading lgbt romance stories instead of straight ones

If a character had previously had serious relationships with the opposite sex I would rather they were revealed to be bi instead of gay though because it would make more sense for the character

I thought you loved Aquaman and Mera being together though.

 

[Mystirious]

She wants Dick to stay straight. Because she pretends not to think the Grayson is hot stuff.

Don't judge me just because I'm not attracted to Dick

...

That came out wrong

But wouldn't keeping them straight make the most sense? Or are you one of those people who think that everyone is bi?

Nope I dont think everyone in real life is bi

Most of the characters I'd like to see together are same sex pairings though

So I'd be totally cool with DC revealing those characters to be bi and hooking up together

 

[SuperFerret]

It just seems very one note.

 

[Mystirious]

I thought you loved Aquaman and Mera being together though.

I do

I prefer same sex romance stories but I dont hate all straight ones

Most are pretty boring to me but I like Aquaman and Mera

And Clark and Lois I like them together too