The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Better 3 Villains: TASM2 Or SM3?

[Oscorp]

Aside from some bad lines, I really like the second Peter and Harry fight as well.

 

[Oscorp]

Almost nothing about that is like the comics. Peter and the symbiote had an actual history from the Secret Wars, it didn't just find him conveiniently one day and let him take it off at will until, for some unexplained reason, he no longer could. Raimi killed the drama of the bell scene before it started.

Eddie Brock was a former athlete who had spent years trying to alleviate his crippling depression by hardcore weight training over a lack of parental love (his mother died in childbirth and his father treated him with indifference) as well as a failed marriage and failed career. Eddie then descended into violent mental illness by attributing all of his troubles, and his failed efforts to recify them, to Spider-man. That doesn't resemble the cheap, lazy fake photo story all all.


And a faithful visual design? LOL!! By choosing the single-expressioned, goofball, floppy-armed Blowpher, Venom was destroyed before filming even started. It wasn't the explosion that killed Venom, it was Sam Raimi's falure to properly adapt a character because he didn't personally like it.

Well said!

 

[The Joker]

Not making Brock like his comic book version is one of the biggest positives the movie did. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version.

In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

Infinitely better than comic book Venom. Comic book Venom has one of the stupidest motives in comic book history. He's also one of the most overrated characters ever. Why is he considered a top Spidey villain, who some rank beside Goblin and Ock? Because he has similar powers to Spidey? Whoop dee doo. He know Spidey's identity? Big deal. What's he ever done with that? Stalk him? Scare MJ once? Pathetic and boring.

What did Goblin do when he learned Spidey's identity? Killed Gwen. What did Ock do when he found out Spidey's identity? Killed Peter himself and stole his body. That's not even counting all the other major stuff these guys did like Captain Stacy's death, hospitalizing Aunt May, making Peter and MJ lose their baby etc. Venom has never done anything that hard hitting.

Venom is a classic example of style over substance. A character who rose to popularity because of cool look and powers. Scratch that surface and there's not much underneath. That's why Marvel writers are always palming the Venom symbiote off on anyone, from the freakin' Scorpion to Flash Thompson.

Raimi's Venom is the best version of the character. Bar none.

 

[DX]

Not making Brock like his comic book version is one of the biggest positives the movie did. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version.

In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

Infinitely better than comic book Venom. Comic book Venom has one of the stupidest motives in comic book history. He's also one of the most overrated characters ever. Why is he considered a top Spidey villain, who some rank beside Goblin and Ock? Because he has similar powers to Spidey? Whoop dee doo. He know Spidey's identity? Big deal. What's he ever done with that? Stalk him? Scare MJ once? Pathetic and boring.

What did Goblin do when he learned Spidey's identity? Killed Gwen. What did Ock do when he found out Spidey's identity? Killed Peter himself and stole his body. That's not even counting all the other major stuff these guys did like Captain Stacy's death, hospitalizing Aunt May, making Peter and MJ lose their baby etc. Venom has never done anything that hard hitting.

Venom is a classic example of style over substance. A character who rose to popularity because of cool look and powers. Scratch that surface and there's not much underneath. That's why Marvel writers are always palming the Venom symbiote off on anyone, from the freakin' Scorpion to Flash Thompson.

Raimi's Venom is the best version of the character. Bar none.

"ZOMG TEH VENIM IZ TEH BESTEST SPIDy ViLLAIN COZ HEHaZ TEH SAME POWeRZ AS TEH SPIDY N LOOKZ LYK A MONSTA VERSHUN OF TEH SPIDY!!!!!!1!1!!!!!!onehundredandeleven!"

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Well said Joker

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think The 90s cartoon has the best venom and he was only in 1 episode as the villain

He was in 2 more episodes some time later in the series but not as the villain

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I hate it when they make Venom an anti-hero/hero.

Someone that looks like this:

and you want to make him a hero? Well why don't we just have him fight this:

since we are doing things ass backwards.

I will admit, I do love Agent Venom but the symbiotie isn't in control of Flash which is why it's good.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I can't believe a thread like this has been allowed to stick around and mine got deleted

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Not making Brock like his comic book version is one of the biggest positives the movie did. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version.

In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

Infinitely better than comic book Venom. Comic book Venom has one of the stupidest motives in comic book history. He's also one of the most overrated characters ever. Why is he considered a top Spidey villain, who some rank beside Goblin and Ock? Because he has similar powers to Spidey? Whoop dee doo. He know Spidey's identity? Big deal. What's he ever done with that? Stalk him? Scare MJ once? Pathetic and boring.

What did Goblin do when he learned Spidey's identity? Killed Gwen. What did Ock do when he found out Spidey's identity? Killed Peter himself and stole his body. That's not even counting all the other major stuff these guys did like Captain Stacy's death, hospitalizing Aunt May, making Peter and MJ lose their baby etc. Venom has never done anything that hard hitting.

Venom is a classic example of style over substance. A character who rose to popularity because of cool look and powers. Scratch that surface and there's not much underneath. That's why Marvel writers are always palming the Venom symbiote off on anyone, from the freakin' Scorpion to Flash Thompson.

Raimi's Venom is the best version of the character. Bar none.

What do you think of Ultimate Venom?

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I can't believe a thread like this has been allowed to stick around and mine got deleted

What was yours?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

What was yours?

Around the time of asm 2's launch, I made a asm 2 vs sm2 thread one day and it was poppin. the next thing I knew it was deleted.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Yeah because it turned into a flame war br0seph

 

[GoodYoung]

Not making Brock like his comic book version is one of the biggest positives the movie did. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version.

In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

Infinitely better than comic book Venom. Comic book Venom has one of the stupidest motives in comic book history. He's also one of the most overrated characters ever. Why is he considered a top Spidey villain, who some rank beside Goblin and Ock? Because he has similar powers to Spidey? Whoop dee doo. He know Spidey's identity? Big deal. What's he ever done with that? Stalk him? Scare MJ once? Pathetic and boring.

What did Goblin do when he learned Spidey's identity? Killed Gwen. What did Ock do when he found out Spidey's identity? Killed Peter himself and stole his body. That's not even counting all the other major stuff these guys did like Captain Stacy's death, hospitalizing Aunt May, making Peter and MJ lose their baby etc. Venom has never done anything that hard hitting.

Venom is a classic example of style over substance. A character who rose to popularity because of cool look and powers. Scratch that surface and there's not much underneath. That's why Marvel writers are always palming the Venom symbiote off on anyone, from the freakin' Scorpion to Flash Thompson.

Raimi's Venom is the best version of the character. Bar none.

No, it's not. Raimi's Venom was just as terrible as his comic book version. He didn't improved anything and Brock's motivation in SM3 is still laughable. The only difference is Venom in comicbooks was a formidable opponent and he easily could beat Spidey in combat. Venom in SM3 was the weakest villain in the whole trilogy and had one of the worst fight scenes in comic book movies.

 

[The Joker]

No, it's not. Raimi's Venom was just as terrible as his comic book version. He didn't improved anything and Brock's motivation in SM3 is still laughable. The only difference is Venom in comicbooks was a formidable opponent and he easily could beat Spidey in combat. Venom in SM3 was the weakest villain in the whole trilogy and had one of the worst fight scenes in comic book movies.

Yes, it is. Raimi's Venom was even better than his comic book version by a LONG way, and the motivation was the most solid Venom's ever had. Bar none. There was an actual connection between Peter and Brock, Brock was shown to be a dishonest, hateful, two faced, obsessive guy before he became Venom. Peter actually did intentional damage to Brock's life, giving him good reason to hate him. All things the comic book version didn't have. The movie version was every bit as formidable. Peter had to rely on beating Venom by using the symbiote's weakness, sound, rather than brute strength, something he has done many times in the comics. So I don't know what comic books you've been reading. But then your whole response reads like a post that's disagreeing just for the sake of it because you offer nothing of substance to back up your opinion.

The fight scene was fantastic. Really got to show off the battle prowess of the two characters. From Venom not triggering the Spidey sense, to having every move Spider-Man has (webbing, wall crawling etc). You're not even right about Venom being the weakest villain of the trilogy. That's Sandman. The only reason I say that is because Thomas Hayden Church was under utilized because Sandman was often a CGI sand monster or sand storm.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Actually, when Venom was in monster mode and didn't have Topher' face, he was great. It was when we saw Topher behind the mask of the symbiote that the Venom character was less threatening.

 

[GoodYoung]

There was an actual connection between Peter and Brock

So? Spectacular Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man did that as well.

Peter actually did intentional damage to Brock's life, giving him good reason to hate him.

A GOOD reason to hate him?
All Peter did was tell everybody about Brock's fake photos, something that anyone would do. It's not Peter's fault, it's Brock's. Eddie did it on purpose, he knew he was wrong, it wasn't anybody else's fault but his own. In the comics he wrote the fake Sin-Eater article not knowing about the real Sin-Eater.
So, in both cases Eddie is the one to blame. The only difference is in the movie he did it intentionally with Peter Parker stopping him, in the comics - he wrote an article without knowing it's a fake with Spider-Man later finding the Carter.
In both versions, Peter was doing his job.

I know about your love for Raimi's films but come on, Venom is a terribly written character both in the comics and in the movies.

The movie version was every bit as formidable. Peter had to rely on beating Venom by using the symbiote's weakness, sound, rather than brute strength, something he has done many times in the comics. So I don't know what comic books you've been reading.

He was weak. He didn't felt like a real threat. He was killed after 10 minutes. And, if there was no Sandman, Peter probably could've beat him in 5.

The fight scene was fantastic. Really got to show off the battle prowess of the two characters. From Venom not triggering the Spidey sense, to having every move Spider-Man has (webbing, wall crawling etc).

The only good moment of the fight is Spidey and Venom fighting in the air while falling. The rest of that is terrible.
And I hate that Brock always removes symbiote of his face.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You do realize that without Harry helping, Venom had Peter dead, right?

 

[GoodYoung]

You do realize that without Harry helping, Venom had Peter dead, right?

With Sandman's help, yeah.

 

[Spider-Fan]

With Sandman's help, yeah.

When Sandman was defeated by Harry, Venom and Spidey were alone. He propped Spidey up in his black webs and had him dead to rights. Only Harry interfering delayed Venom killing him long enough for him to get out. So, you're wrong. He nearly killed Spidey, and he DOES kill Harry. All by himself. No Sandman.

Next time actually WATCH the movie.

 

[GoodYoung]

When Sandman was defeated by Harry, Venom and Spidey were alone. He propped Spidey up in his black webs and had him dead to rights. Only Harry interfering delayed Venom killing him long enough for him to get out. So, you're wrong. He nearly killed Spidey, and he DOES kill Harry. All by himself. No Sandman.

Next time actually WATCH the movie.

1) Peter already was almost killed by the Sandman by that time. So, obviously, he was weaker than usual.
2) Peter along with Harry were fighting the Sandman when Sandman punched Spidey into the construction site where Venom attack him. So, he basically was dealing with another enemy at this time.

 

[The Joker]

So? Spectacular Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man did that as well.

Yeah so did the 90's cartoon. That's not the sole reason why it was good. It's what they did with that connection that makes it work. But actually having a connection between Peter and Brock prior to him becoming Venom is one of several key improvements over the comic book version.

A GOOD reason to hate him?

Yes.

All Peter did was tell everybody about Brock's fake photos, something that anyone would do. It's not Peter's fault, it's Brock's. Eddie did it on purpose, he knew he was wrong, it wasn't anybody else's fault but his own. In the comics he wrote the fake Sin-Eater article not knowing about the real Sin-Eater.
So, in both cases Eddie is the one to blame. The only difference is in the movie he did it intentionally with Peter Parker stopping him, in the comics - he wrote an article without knowing it's a fake with Spider-Man later finding the Carter.
In both versions, Peter was doing his job.

No offense but you must be joking. Vengeance against a hero/Cop/moral person stopping an amoral person for doing something bad is the age old motive for revenge. Are all the Spider-Man villains (not to mention the bazillions of other fictional villain characters seeking revenge for the evil plans being foiled) morons for wanting revenge on Spider-Man just because he did the right thing by stopping their criminal plans and putting them in prison?

Better cancel using the Sinister Six because their whole foundation was getting revenge on Spider-Man for doing the right thing and stopping six deadly super villains. No different to Peter doing the right thing and exposing Brock's fraud, and humiliating him, and costing him his career in journalism. A bad guy seeking vengeance for someone screwing them over is the classic motive for personal vendettas.

In the comics there was no connection in any way to Peter and Eddie. Spider-Man was not an obstacle at all to Eddie writing a proper story. He didn't sabotage Eddie's career. He didn't know Eddie from Adam. All he did was catch a serial killer. There's nothing personal there between Peter and Eddie. Compare that to the movie and you can see plain as day that the movie version is unquestionably superior in every way.

I know about your love for Raimi's films but come on, Venom is a terribly written character both in the comics and in the movies.

You're half right.

He was weak. He didn't felt like a real threat. He was killed after 10 minutes. And, if there was no Sandman, Peter probably could've beat him in 5.

Rubbish. Venom almost killed Peter without Sandman's help. Peter was still fighting fit after Sandman was taken down, showing no physical signs that he was debilitated in any way from his fight with Sandman. Harry had to sacrifice himself to save Peter from Venom. That's how much of a threat Venom was. Even Sandman almost killing Spider-Man was only because Venom was holding him down while Sandman clobbered him.

Brilliant fight scene. Spider-Man 3, for all it's faults, had terrific action sequences.

When Sandman was defeated by Harry, Venom and Spidey were alone. He propped Spidey up in his black webs and had him dead to rights. Only Harry interfering delayed Venom killing him long enough for him to get out. So, you're wrong. He nearly killed Spidey, and he DOES kill Harry. All by himself. No Sandman.

Next time actually WATCH the movie.

Exactly

Common sense prevails.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I think The 90s cartoon has the best venom and he was only in 1 episode as the villain

He was in 2 more episodes some time later in the series but not as the villain

TAS fleshed out Eddie Brock in one brief montage more fully than a $250 mil movie did. How does that happen?

I hate it when they make Venom an anti-hero/hero.

Someone that looks like this:

and you want to make him a hero?

Spawn, Creeper, Hellboy, Etrigan, Ghost Rider, Man-Thing, Deadman, Spectre, Deathlok....need I go on?

 

[Doctor Octopus]

TAS Eddie Brock wasn't fleshed out before he was Venom. What did we know about him before that? He was just a guy who kept getting usurped by Spider-Man on his news stories like when he tried to expose Dr. Connors as The Lizard and Spider-Man stopped him.

I think they were trying to show how bad the comic book Eddie Brock story was by showing Spider-Man intentionally messing with his news scoops and Eddie hating him for it, instead of Spider-Man not doing anything to try and ruin Eddie's story and him hating for it anyway.

But I also remember TAS Eddie being stupid. He was walking along giving out about Spider-Man and then he sneezes just once and says Spider-Man cost him his health lol.

 

[LizardMan07]

When Sandman was defeated by Harry, Venom and Spidey were alone. He propped Spidey up in his black webs and had him dead to rights. Only Harry interfering delayed Venom killing him long enough for him to get out. So, you're wrong. He nearly killed Spidey, and he DOES kill Harry. All by himself. No Sandman.

Next time actually WATCH the movie.

Well if you think about it, Sandman could be considered to have weakened spider-man considerably. There's a degree of interpretation there, bit harsh on the poor guy to insinuate he's not watching the film, slightly incendary is it not?

 

[The Joker]

There's no physical signs that Spider-Man was weakened or impaired by his bout with Sandman. He was back on fighting form right after Sandman was taken out. He wasn't slowed down, limping, clutching at his chest, arms, legs...no signs he was weaker for it. Spider-Man takes thrashings from super villains all the time. He doesn't walk away afterward weakened, unless it's a severe beating ala Green Goblin a the end of SM-1, stopping the train in SM-2 etc. If there was any clear signs that he had been weakened or slowed down at all by it then the poster would have a point. But there isn't. I challenge anyone to show proof of otherwise.