The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Better 3 Villains: TASM2 Or SM3?

[Spider-Ock]

Honestly, every villain in SM3 was better. With Sandman, you got a pretty good, albeit cliched, motivation. What was Electro's motivation? HE FORGOT MY NAME! TIME TO DIE!!

As for Harry, Franco nailed it. I loved the last scene in which he helps out Peter fight Sandy and Venom.

Venom – eh. Wasn't that great of a character to begin with. His motivation was wafer-thin in the comics anyways. Considering that, I think Raimi did a good job with him.

Rhino – One. of. the. worst. villains. in. CBM. history. But i think Webb wanted him to be portrayed that way

Dane's Goblin – Too thinly developed. Should have been introduced in the first film if he was to become Goblin in the second.

 

[harryoscop]

SM3's villains were easily more memorable

TASM 2's Goblin was way too rushed.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Yeah because it turned into a flame war br0seph

okay so then lock it, but don't delete it... that's completely counter productive and undoes all of the good discussion that occurred in the thread

 

[spiderral]

My opinion:

Dane's Harry = Franco's Harry

Sandman > RHINO

Electro > Venom

I'd say Franco's Harry was fleshed out a lot more across the trilogy but if you're reducing it to the one film then maybe Dane.

The problem with Venom is that he was shoehorned in and had very little screen time at the end. Plus, he wasn't as menacing as everyone would have wanted to be, turning out to be quite a disappointment. Brock was fine in SM3 and I can understand his hatred towards Peter but he was still a little rushed too. Electro/Max were also understandable (just wanting a little more attention in life, being respected etc.) but Electro was a waste and Max came across as a little goofy/cheesy. So, I'd say that Electro and Venom are equal but maybe Electro wins by the tiniest bit.

 

[Keehar]

The Spider-man 3 villains were better in every way.

 

[LizardMan07]

The Spider-man 3 villains were better in every way.

Great analysis there

 

[Keehar]

I didn't realize I was expected to post an analysis. Would it have been better if I posted it in this format:

Dane's Harry = Franco's Harry

Sandman > RHINO

Electro > Venom

Franco's Harry >>>>>> Dane's Harry

Sandman > Rhino

Venom > Electro

 

[Spooderman]

For me it would be

Sandman = Franco > Venom > Electro = Dane > Rhino

 

[Lantern Venom]

Honestly, every villain in SM3 was better. With Sandman, you got a pretty good, albeit cliched, motivation. What was Electro's motivation? HE FORGOT MY NAME! TIME TO DIE!!

.

His motivation was a lifetime of being invisible and disposable. He was an unbalanced man with a life seemingly void of authentic relationships. That's why Spidey's passing platitude meant everything to him, and why Max reacted so violently when his affection wasn't reciprocated.

 

[LizardMan07]

His motivation was a lifetime of being invisible and disposable. He was an unbalanced man with a life seemingly void of authentic relationships. That's why Spidey's passing platitude meant everything to him, and why Max reacted so violently when his affection wasn't reciprocated.

It's actually a pretty fascinating concept and its definitely one that could and did work to some extent.

Unfortunately the cheesiness kinda didn't work with the serious nature they were trying to give his origin so we ended up with something pretty garbled.

I think its the bravest origin story of all the spidey villains to be honest.

He kinda had power thrust onto him and we explored how he handled power. Most villians tend to seek it in one way or another but TASM2 gave us a really odd angle of a guy that just couldn't handle the powers he was given, couldn't handle abandonment.

He's probably the best foil to Peter Parker's development we've got, along with TASM2 Harry, it really shows the fine line between "hero" and "villian".

Again, a shame the cheese got in the way.

 

[spiderral]

Great post BRAB, I agree that the cheesiness got in the way. Max/Electro would have been very interesting if they had him as the sole villain and it would have been cool to see him slowly get more and more twisted to the point where he has good reason for hating Spider-Man.

 

[Lantern Venom]

It's actually a pretty fascinating concept and its definitely one that could and did work to some extent.

Unfortunately the cheesiness kinda didn't work with the serious nature they were trying to give his origin so we ended up with something pretty garbled.

I think its the bravest origin story of all the spidey villains to be honest.

.

The aspect that I liked the most about it was that Max's mind wasn't altered to make him "bad". There's nothing wrong with that as a plot device, but we have seen that multiple times before. Viewers saw the same person before and after the accident, only the added stress of his super powers made Max's violent tendencies overwhelm his compassion. It was a natural progression, and that was very original.

Great post BRAB, I agree that the cheesiness got in the way. Max/Electro would have been very interesting if they had him as the sole villain and it would have been cool to see him slowly get more and more twisted to the point where he has good reason for hating Spider-Man.

Perception is reality, and Max's reasons for hating Spidey multiplied as the movie progressed. He thought Spider-man had forgotten him, then he thought Spidey was plotting with the cops to ensnare him, then he was captured and tortured. In his mind, he attributed all of this to Spidey. If Electro shows up in the S6 film, I can only imagine how angry he'll be now that Spidey actually did try to kill him.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Max's motive was stupid. He met Spider-Man for 20 seconds after he saved his life. Then he is saying to Gwen that he is so special because out of the whole city Spider-Man saved him, and everyone knows Spider-Man saves people every day. He was even looking at TV news report of Spider-Man saving other people when he was saying this lol.

Max was stupid, and played stupidly by Jamie Foxx who is a good actor but this was a bad role and a bad performance. He was too cheesy and too badly written to be taken seriously. One good thing you could say even though it's really a flaw is he was barely in the movie. Locked up for most of it so we didn't have to put up with his cheesiness as much as we could have if he had been used the way a main villain should.

 

[spiderral]

Read the above posts Doctor Octopus, that wasn't all there was to Max. He was a man who had no-one in his life who cared about him or acknowledged him. He was quite smart in the fact that he designed the power grid for Oscorp yet no-one really acknowledged his work. He was a nobody but Spider-Man saving his life made him feel some kind of sense-worth, that someone of great importance knew he existed.

Yes, Foxx's portrayal of him was goofy and cheesy and it was the writers' fault too for giving him that characterisation but his motive would have only been stupid if Max became Electro, with no prior contact with Spider-Man, and decided to just go randomly attack Spider-Man and citizens because that's what villains do and why wouldn't he do that?

Perhaps they could have showed a scene where Max (whose goofiness is toned down a lot) is about to commit suicide, maybe jump off a bridge/building because he feels like he has no purpose in life, even with his work at Oscorp. Spider-Man stops him from jumping, talks to him and convinces him that he's not worthless. (That would make for a really touching scene.) Then, the rest of the events in the film happen where Max transforms into Electro, he thinks Spider-Man is working with the police and he feels betrayed and so on.
I think that there would have been a lot better tale than TASM2's story; Spider-Man trying to save someone from suicide and depression, even after Max's transformation.

 

[Keehar]

Max's boo-hoo nobody acknowledges me, but the man I met for a few seconds who forgot my name so I'm going into super villain mode motive was one of the most laughable motives for a villain. I mean really it was a diluted down cheesier version of 'Marsha Marsha Marsha' syndrome.

Next to the Rhino he's the worst villain of the series. Bad motive, bad acting, bad dialogue.

 

[Leenie]

Electro could have been good if he had not been handled so horribly. I mean, look at Jamie Foxx in this movie. The fact that his character wasn't meant to be a farce (but unintentionally came across as one) ruined the entire thing. He looks like a caricature of what nerds looked like ... In the 1980's or 1990's. He looked like middle-aged Steve Urkel, and was treated as such. By the time the movie wanted to shoehorn in a sympathetic story for him, there's was no way anyone could take that seriously.

Electro's character was painfully hollow and laughable. By the time he's all "WAAAHHHH! He doesn't remember me!" it becomes laughable to the audience, not sympathetic. If they had put an ounce of seriousness into his character (instead of having him sing Happy Birthday to himself and obsessing over Spider-Man like a 5 year-old), then he could have been a pretty great villain.

Also, I typically don't like Jamie Foxx as an actor, but I feel like he was the only one who was trying in this movie. Electro stunk as a villain, but it isn't his fault at all.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Perhaps they could have showed a scene where Max (whose goofiness is toned down a lot) is about to commit suicide, maybe jump off a bridge/building because he feels like he has no purpose in life, even with his work at Oscorp. Spider-Man stops him from jumping, talks to him and convinces him that he's not worthless. (That would make for a really touching scene.) Then, the rest of the events in the film happen where Max transforms into Electro, he thinks Spider-Man is working with the police and he feels betrayed and so on.
I think that there would have been a lot better tale than TASM2's story; Spider-Man trying to save someone from suicide and depression, even after Max's transformation.

That would have been great

 

[A Necessary Evil]

"It's my birthday, time to light my candles"


Suffice it to say, this will be in the pantheon of amazing CBM quotes.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Max's motive was stupid. He met Spider-Man for 20 seconds after he saved his life. Then he is saying to Gwen that he is so special because out of the whole city Spider-Man saved him, and everyone knows Spider-Man saves people every day. He was even looking at TV news report of Spider-Man saving other people when he was saying this lol.

Max was stupid, and played stupidly by Jamie Foxx who is a good actor but this was a bad role and a bad performance. He was too cheesy and too badly written to be taken seriously. One good thing you could say even though it's really a flaw is he was barely in the movie. Locked up for most of it so we didn't have to put up with his cheesiness as much as we could have if he had been used the way a main villain should.

Max's boo-hoo nobody acknowledges me, but the man I met for a few seconds who forgot my name so I'm going into super villain mode motive was one of the most laughable motives for a villain. I mean really it was a diluted down cheesier version of 'Marsha Marsha Marsha' syndrome.

Next to the Rhino he's the worst villain of the series. Bad motive, bad acting, bad dialogue.

You guys are looking at the situation rationally, which is the exact opposite of what Max was doing. He was projecting the emotional void in his life on to the most mundane interactions with people. Within a few minutes of Max interacting with people, we were seeing that he was in possession of villainous tendencies long before he even met Spidey. The situation brought out what was already there, which was a necessary departure from the "science experiment turns a good man bad" storyline that we had already seen 3 times with Spidey villains.

And while I agree with you Keehar on Rhino's handling being subpar, he was still 1000 times better than VINO in SM3. If you want to see the avatar of bad "acting", look no further than Blowpher. Jamie Foxx could put on a better performance in his deepest sleep than Blowpher could produce at his best.

 

[schereZada]

Hi there, everyone.

I think they all sucked. In both movies. Big time. Rhino ("I am Rhi-noooah") and Venom were jokes. Green Goblin was rushed and his aspect was hilarious. And Electro... was another joke.

The only one that sucked a little bit tiny less was Sandman. But still he sucked when he was made Uncle Ben's killer or when he was running and accidentally fell into a giant illuminated hole he somehow couldn't see (nor could the policemen, "where did he go?"). Or when he kept opening his locket making a sad face.

So everyone goes to the pit.