Endgame Endgame User Review Thread (TAG SPOILERS)

[DCnightwing23]

Spoiler: Thoughts on Thor & Spider-Man

I loved the movie, but strongly disliked what they did to Thor. At the very least they should've ditched the fat Thor gag after his trip back in time to see his mom. I don't know why they went with that look for Thor. It sorta in a way ruined the final battle with Thor, Iron Man and Captain America vs. Thanos for me. Could not take him seriously in the slightest.

As for Spider-man, I don't know why Holland continues to play Spider-Man as this whiney/crying guy. I accepted it in Homecoming at the end when he was trapped under the rubble and he was crying for help. But for him to do that again in Infinity War and for it to come across as overacting and chewing scenery, that's when it got annoying. And then it happened again with him on Iron Man at the end of Endgame. I'm in the minority I'm sure, but it just comes across as a bit much.

Another thing with Spider-Man, can someone explain to me why the heck he's still in high school when he comes back 5 years later? And why his best friend is also still in high school? Seems like an oversight here.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Questions and thoughts from a second showing:

Spoiler

Every scene with short hair CM looks CGI to me. I don't believe Brie ever really got that haircut IRL, correct? I think she was also CGIed into the funeral.

Speaking of the funeral, who was the sulky teenager standing in front of Maria Hill by himself?

I noticed in the aftermath of the battle, they showed a helicopter flying off with a large square crate over the compound wreckage. Maybe i'ts just nothing...

Also, how would Steve return the soul stone to Vormir or the other one to Morag without a spaceship? How would he return the stone and Mjolnir to Asgard without Bi-Frost access? And if he returned it before Clint and Natasha went, could that bring Nat back?

I liked it more the 2nd time. The closer you watch the final battle, the more you see all the heroes getting their licks in. Wanda was about to pull Thanos apart before he ordered, "Rain Fire." It still bugs me a little how none of these guys best shot was enough to take him out alone or together.

Spoiler: Captain Marvel

She looked terrible with that new short hairstyle, it was clearly CGI and didn't look convincing until the funeral scene. I don't know why they chose to go with that look for her when her look at the start of the film was terrific. Seemed like pandering to the fans there. Her entrance in the final battle was epic though, loved that. But her look with the short hair was terrible.

 

[eplo]

Spoiler

Wow. I couldn't have recognized that kid in a million years. Other random thought I had: Who were in all the spaceships over the returning heroes in the final battle scene?

Spoiler

nova corps maybe?

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I was blown away. Still feeling it. I was with my brother and dad, and all 3 of us cried. This movie managed to hone in on the humanity of all the characters. Ever since Civil War I have had this feeling that these movies are written in a manipulative way to sell the most tickets and toys, but in this final adventure everything felt just so honest and heartfelt. I'll be going over some random stuff with spoilers

Thanos:

Spoiler

What a crazy self-satisfied psychopath. I love it. To those who complain that Thanos' plan didn't make sense when you pick it appart: I don't think that it's supposed to make sense. Like in the real world, often these crazy murderers act under some thinly veiled crusade that makes perfect sense to themselves. And that's why Thanos is such a good bad guy. He believes himself to be a hero, when in reality he is a crazy mass murderer who clearly enjoys tormenting others. Watching him gave me chills.

Captain America:

Spoiler

The man out of time. The story telling with this character is something that only a cinematic universe can do. He has been through so much, and we've been there with him. No matter how many movies have gone by, I always remember the frail little Steve Rodgers. I think we all assumed that Steve lost Peggy forever. The payoff that happens at the end of this movie is something totally unique. Usual instinct would be to stick with tragedy. In Titanic Rose can't get Jack back. In King Kong, the ape was doomed from the start. Yet here they let Steve travel back in time to get another chance with his one true love and it is perfect

Tony:

Spoiler

RDJ knocked it out of the park. His acting elevated to a whole new level here, and he was already great before. This character has been ticking on post-traumatic stress disorder ever since he escaped that cave. Giving him the self-sacrificial snap was poetic in the most satisfying way.

Thor:

Spoiler

This one really got me. Something about his depression felt so realistic. The weight gain was done very tastefully. On first glance it's kinda funny, but then the realization sets in of how mentally damaged Thor has become and it is heart wrenching.

story and action:

Spoiler

The time travel stuff is really clever and very organic. The thing that gives it that extra oomph is that they start by explaining how complex and risky this time traveling science is, it gives those scenes a sense of weight and urgency. Like there's no room for mistakes. The new york part was absolutely thrilling, how everyone used their wits to the full.

The final battle with Thanos had me at the edge of my seat. Thanos is simply too powerful and smart for the heros to take him down. That is, until he gets blinded by his arrogance. My hands were totally sweating in that moment

This movie was a blast of emotions for me. The best MCU movie, yet it wouldn't exist and couldn't work without the backing of those 21 movies before it. 10/10

 

[eplo]

Spoiler: Thoughts on Thor & Spider-Man

I loved the movie, but strongly disliked what they did to Thor. At the very least they should've ditched the fat Thor gag after his trip back in time to see his mom. I don't know why they went with that look for Thor. It sorta in a way ruined the final battle with Thor, Iron Man and Captain America vs. Thanos for me. Could not take him seriously in the slightest.

As for Spider-man, I don't know why Holland continues to play Spider-Man as this whiney/crying guy. I accepted it in Homecoming at the end when he was trapped under the rubble and he was crying for help. But for him to do that again in Infinity War and for it to come across as overacting and chewing scenery, that's when it got annoying. And then it happened again with him on Iron Man at the end of Endgame. I'm in the minority I'm sure, but it just comes across as a bit much.

Another thing with Spider-Man, can someone explain to me why the heck he's still in high school when he comes back 5 years later? And why his best friend is also still in high school? Seems like an oversight here.

Spoiler: Spider-Man

they didn't age while they were out of existence

 

[MovieSlave]

I don't get the numerous questions I've seen geared at Parker still being in High School at the end. He may have been gone for five years but that doesn't give him a free pass out of High School. He still needs to finish the year or two he missed and get his diploma. Lol

 

[DCnightwing23]

I don't get the numerous questions I've seen geared at Parker still being in High School at the end. He may have been gone for five years but that doesn't give him a free pass out of High School. He still needs to finish the year or two he missed and get his diploma. Lol

Yes but how do you explain all of his friends and classmates still being with him from what we've seen from Far From Home? How convenient is it that every single one of the people we saw from Homecoming faded to dust with him and came back with him? The chances of that happening is so slim. Come on now.

 

[Sithborg]

Yes but how do you explain all of his friends and classmates still being with him from what we've seen from Far From Home? How convenient is it that every single one of the people we saw from Homecoming faded to dust with him and came back with him? The chances of that happening is so slim. Come on now.

Probability causes weird groupings at times. It is like flipping a coin. Over the course of time, it will hit 50%, but you can get large strings of one result during your testing. Over large samples, it balances out, but in a smaller sample, it can look very lopsided.

 

[onDgrind]

Saw Endgame on saturday, never seen so much sell outs all my years of going to the cinema. Shame i didn't like the movie as much, i walked out disappointed. Felt more like a whedon movie than a Russos movie. Where do i start ? Hated everything they did with Thor and Hulk. The CGI for Thanos, Hulk and some other parts felt off. After infinity war i couldn't wait to watch Endgame, but after Endgame i ain't even excited about any future MCU projects . Infinity war was a 9.5/10 for me , Endgame gets 6/10

 

[Holy Slapper]

Damn it, Carol's Hair - The Superherohype Musical continues even in this thread...

 

[Moridin]

Finally got around to seeing it. Not really sure what to think about that, not sure I like it that much.

What I will say is I flat out hate what they did with Thor. They really f***ed him 10 ways from Thursday. And given

Spoiler

the fact he's going off with the GotG that means he's in Gunn's hands now, which means it's only going to get worse.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Finally got around to seeing it. Not really sure what to think about that, not sure I like it that much.

What I will say is I flat out hate what they did with Thor. They really f***ed him 10 ways from Thursday. And given

Spoiler

the fact he's going off with the GotG that means he's in Gunn's hands now, which means it's only going to get worse.

Agreed on the Thor front. I don't know why they went that direction, it was terrible.

Spoiler

Practically ruined the trio battle at the end with Thanos.

 

[Moridin]

Agreed on the Thor front. I don't know why they went that direction, it was terrible.

Spoiler

Practically ruined the trio battle at the end with Thanos.

Spoiler tag that, btw^.

But yeah, even

Spoiler

at the end, giving Val the throne and running off with the GotG?? After everything Thor went through to coming around to becoming King, the Russo's turned him into a slob who runs away from his responsibilities.

Blah.

 

[samsnee]

Spoiler tag that, btw^.

But yeah, even

Spoiler

at the end, giving Val the throne and running off with the GotG?? After everything Thor went through to coming around to becoming King, the Russo's turned him into a slob who runs away from his responsibilities.

Blah.

Spoiler

Then you kind of missed the whole point of his arc and his line of “quit trying to be who I’m supposed to be and just be who I am”. It’s been apparent from the first Thor movie he doesn’t really want to be king, it’s just what he thinks he should be because that’s all he’s been told

 

[Moridin]

Spoiler

Then you kind of missed the whole point of his arc and his line of “quit trying to be who I’m supposed to be and just be who I am”. It’s been apparent from the first Thor movie he doesn’t really want to be king, it’s just what he thinks he should be because that’s all he’s been told

Spoiler

His arc went from being arrogant and spoiled, wanting the throne for selfish reasons (ego),
to being humbled and not wanting the throne for thinking he isn't suited for the role, preferring a life of adventure (this being while he thought Odin was still alive)(still selfish),
to accepting the role, in light of Odins death and the decimation of his people and homeworld, to becoming king because his people need him. It doesn't matter that it isn't what he wants, it is his responsibility.

The saying wasn't "with great power comes great... ability to shirk your responsibilities".

 

[samsnee]

Spoiler

who says it’s his responsibility? Is he only worthy of Mjolnir if he’s king? Or does his worthiness mean he helps people regardless of whether or not he wears the crown? You’re basically he has to be king, which is exactly what Thor thought. He has to be king and be the one to save his people.

This idea that he can’t fail is what led him to his depression in the movie. It’s when he accepted his mother’s words about failure that he started to come out of his depression

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spoiler: Thoughts on Thor & Spider-Man

I loved the movie, but strongly disliked what they did to Thor. At the very least they should've ditched the fat Thor gag after his trip back in time to see his mom. I don't know why they went with that look for Thor. It sorta in a way ruined the final battle with Thor, Iron Man and Captain America vs. Thanos for me. Could not take him seriously in the slightest.

As for Spider-man, I don't know why Holland continues to play Spider-Man as this whiney/crying guy. I accepted it in Homecoming at the end when he was trapped under the rubble and he was crying for help. But for him to do that again in Infinity War and for it to come across as overacting and chewing scenery, that's when it got annoying. And then it happened again with him on Iron Man at the end of Endgame. I'm in the minority I'm sure, but it just comes across as a bit much.

Another thing with Spider-Man, can someone explain to me why the heck he's still in high school when he comes back 5 years later? And why his best friend is also still in high school? Seems like an oversight here.

Spoiler

The snapped didn't age. So Peter is the same age he was in IW

 

[Zyraquis]

My issue with him too.

Spoiler

Thor 2.0 wouldn’t act like Thor 3.0 no matter how grave his personal crises are or how much ordeal he has to go through he would slog it through even he may weep privately on the side drinking to his death, not shunning his people then run away. He would be able to put up a brave face, as a character development I’m sorely disappointed. Asgard is the people, the people who also lost everything family, home you name it and need a king to lead them through the dark time. They soldier on, rebuild in an alien land. He? Only came out of this house for beer (Valkyrie words) for years. Sorry I expected much more from him depression or not. Him being fat or slim isn’t even a factor. Big men can be strong and HOT as hell (or personal taste) look at those strongest man contests competitors.

 

[Moridin]

Spoiler

who says it’s his responsibility? Is he only worthy of Mjolnir if he’s king? Or does his worthiness mean he helps people regardless of whether or not he wears the crown? You’re basically he has to be king, which is exactly what Thor thought. He has to be king and be the one to save his people.

This idea that he can’t fail is what led him to his depression in the movie. It’s when he accepted his mother’s words about failure that he started to come out of his depression

Spoiler

I haven't said anything about being worthy of Mjolinir.

"Who's to say it's his responsibility?" Really? How is it not his responsibility? He was only born to the king, raised and educated in all the things he would need to know in order to rule. He's only the most powerful Asgardian. The fact that he doesn't want to rule over people is part of what makes him such a great candidate, it means he's not power hungry, it means he will be benevolent rather than a tyrant. He's uniquely positioned as the best for that job and... he runs away. Runs away, turns his back on his people, and makes s#!t€ out of everything he was before.

What a spectacular message to send. "Hey kids! Are there things in life that you are responsible for? Are there people around you who rely on and need you? Well, tell them to go f*** themselves because there might be other things you "want" to do instead."

File that under: "How NOT to write a superhero".

Hey, remember this scene:


"This isn't about the crown, this is about the people, and they're dying, and they're you're people too"
"Go ahead, stay here and enslave people for that lunatic, keep drinking, keep hiding... but me? I choose to run toward my problems and not away from them, 'cause that's what heroes do"


So, if taking care of the people of Asgard isn't Thor's responsibility, who's responsibility is it?
Valkyrie's?? I'll point out she'd abandoned Asgard for many thousands of years, in favour of becoming a slaver. She had absolutely no qualms about capturing people and selling people into slavery where they would almost certainly die violent deaths at a gladiator arena.
What a queeeeeeen!


Nah mate, after all the great work done in Ragnarok they butchered Thor's characterisation in this. He was turned into a dumb, selfish, man-child, but hey! at least now he'll fit right into GotG...

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I finally saw Endgame this past Sunday, once in the wee hours of the day and later in the evening. Props to Marvel/Disney for allowing the Russos to give us what feels like an overwhelmingly director-driven film. The first arc in particular felt so authentic and unconventional, something that was naturally complemented by the emotional performances of RDJ, Scarlett Johansson, et al. With so much ground to cover in terms of scope and scale, that was an apt way of addressing the consequences of the snap within the limited time constraints of a tentpole actioner (one w/ a three-hour runtime, no less.)

As a whole, the film was a lot to process the first time around, and it was only in my second viewing that I came to fully appreciate what the combined efforts of the cast and crew accomplished here. So, if you can, I highly recommend seeing it more than once. Also, I know this has been said ad nauseam, but it bears repeating: Avengers Endgame plays like a love letter to the fans. And as a lifelong fan of Marvel (not to mention DC and comics in general really), I was here for that! Was everything to my liking? No. But whatever problems I have with the film are far outweighed by its many strengths. To that end, here's my personal list of pros/cons in no particular order.

Pros

Spoiler

- Character-driven performances from RDJ, S.Johansson, and others
- Cap wielding Mjolnir and Thor's reaction
- Thanos vs the MCU trinity (Cap, Thor and Iron Man)
- Hulk encountering the Ancient One
- The revelation that the AO knew from the start that Stephen Strange was destined to not only be the next Sorcerer Supreme, but the greatest of them all
- Cap vs Cap
- Tony's arc
- Chris Evans' final and arguably best performance as Cap; as of now, he's the quintessential personification of the character in my eyes
- The new Captain America costume (it's a thing of beauty really)
- Artist Jim Cheung's influence on the character designs for the film
- The humor in some parts
- Thor looking like an actual Viking god again even if he could stand to lose a few pounds lol
- Thor powering up with the lightning as he calls both Mjolnir and Stormbreaker to him
- Seeing Cassie all grown up was as nice as it was unexpected
- "I.. am..... IRON MAN"
- "Avengers Assemble!"
- Steve reuniting with Peggy in the 1940s
- An elderly Joe Biden lookin' Steve Rogers passing on the mantle of Cap to Sam
- Morgan Stark inheriting her father's penchant for cheeseburgers (a nice throwback to Iron Man I)
- "I love you 3000"
- Tony reading Strange's cues on the battlefield and accepting his fate (Note: This particular scene frames their prior exchange during the final moments of Infinity War in a whole new light. When Strange surrendered the Time Stone to Thanos, he knew there and then what was in store for Tony but was forced to do so nevertheless for obvious reasons. "Tony, there was no other way." Was that Strange's attempt at an apology in advance? You decide.
- Scarlet Witch handing Thanos's ass to him
- Thanos headbutting Captain Marvel to no effect whatsoever
- Steve referring to Captain Marvel as "Danvers" like he occasionally does in the comics
- Spider-Man's emotional reaction as he witnesses Tony's last moments
- "Hail Hydra"

Cons

Spoiler

- Minor nitpick, but the mo-cap work for Thanos wasn't quite as effective as it was in Infinity War
- I wouldn't go so far as to call Black Widow a plot device, but I nevertheless felt that the character deserved a little more to do in the film
- Although somewhat enjoyable, I can't say I loved the new approach to Hulk even with it taking inspiration from the comics
- Natalie Portman's reprisal of Jane Foster was cool but at the same time a little superfluous, as she didn't actually do anything

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I actually haven't given my review for AVENGERS: ENDGAME yet. I wanted to see the movie at least once more before I did so, but between seeing it opening day in NYC and then coming here and posting and interacting with so many as well as reading and listening to other reviewers online the film is very fresh in my mind I think. So having ruminated a bit here's my over all take in a SPOILER review so be forewarned.

This is part one going over the film and my feelings towards it as a whole. Part two will focus on the cast of characters and some odd and ends.

Spoiler: AVENGERS ENDGAME REVIEW Part One... (Spoilers)

This is a bit of a daunting task so bear with me...

Okay, opening statement... I am a comic book superhero fan from way back. I was brought to see SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE in theaters at the age of 3 and damn if I don't remember it like yesterday. My household was always filled with other fans of super heroes growing up from my uncle on my mother's side to my brother. I got into them too and by my teenage years I was working at a comic book store that was right across the road from the High School I attended. I enjoyed the type of anti-heroes and more extreme type characters that ruled the late 80's and 90's but my heart was always with the classic styled super heroes. When everyone was losing their minds for Venom (Whom I find to be an insipid and stupid character) or Wolverine ( Whom I adore... But who is WAY over sold and over exposed as a character) I was still into the Superman, Flash, Captain America, Thor, Spidey, JLA and Avengers type heroes. Fast forward to this modern age of super hero films and when I was in the darkened theater in 2012 to see AVENGERS I could not believe what had been pulled off. The all star super hero team film with characters interacting in a story where they clashed but ultimately teamed up to fight off an invasion on the streets of NYC... It was all I could have asked for in that type of movie. The magic Marvel Studios is capable of was on display there when that film was released.

But...

I have to say that despite the promise of the early days of Marvel Studios I in no way shape or form am a die hard "Marvel Zombie" in terms of their output in cinemas for over ten years now. I have to say... I don't think every one of the films has been flawless. I don't think everything is a home run. It's not that anything in the films has been laughably bad. In a way it's worse. In my estimation about half are just... meh. Just perfunctory. Forgettable. Not offensive. But with no teeth. Even when they are very entertaining they come off as something with nothing to really say about anything. The success of these films has come down to a certain formula in which it's all things to all people. That's a great formula for casting a wide net but not for making anything with depth. What is worse for me personally is that these movies in being so god damned four quadrant lean incredibly heavy into "humor" to the point I find it annoying, even grating. It's like this odd mix of borderline lowest common denominator (not too low... We aren't in Michael Bay territory here, I will say that...) and then thoroughly middle of the road "dad jokes". And they fill them to the brim. This isn't every franchise. But outside of the Cap trilogy and Black Panther post Phase One and Avengers 1 this became the default for a lot of their output.

I like humor. I like jokes. But I will say this until I am blue in the face in regards to these movies... I DON'T GO TO THESE FILMS TO SEE A ****ING COMEDY! If I wanted to see a comedy... I WOULD GO TO SEE A ****ING COMEDY. But the wider audience and fan base ate this approach up. And I, as a longtime fan had to accept that this was something that is baked in. That doesn't mean it's not still an issue. An aspect of about half of the output of Marvel Studios films is that the jokes might be hoary and utterly white bread... But they do work. I can't say the humor doesn't usually land... But it does so too often at the expense in some fashion of other facets of their movies to the point it really seems like more thought goes into the gags than the super hero story elements thus ending up with a lot of films where the final product is this bland, rather pro forma thing with no bite, no depth and ultimately no meaning. Sorry but about half of the films I think really do follow this pattern. Fans themselves often use the term "Mid-Tier Marvel" when describing the middle of the road pictures of the Marvel. But to my eyes when a little over half falls into the Mid Tier range... It's not Mid Tier anymore.

This is all to preface that when it comes to this film and it's previous installment in INFINITY WAR, I'm not judging it as some kind of grand culmination to some flawlessly executed plan. I've not drunk the Kool Aid at all. I think this is important to say before I really get into the movie proper, to know where I stand on Marvel and it's place the grander Fanboy/girl Industrial Complex.

That out of the way, I feel this movie equals if not exceeds the excellence of execution that was INFINITY WAR in it's overall impact despite still containing the flaws that I find too often grating within the wider Marvel Studios filmography. While IW as a film was more conservative with it's humor quotient and was none the less entertaining because of it here the emphasis on humor ticks up slightly more but it's also a NEEDED aspect since this movie is so long and so much is dealing with the ramifications of the fallout for our cast of heroes from the ending of the last movie. Having light touches is likely a necessity. The fallout of Thanos' actions is front and center. And we get that in spades right off the bat. We get the eerie disappearance of Clint Barton's family, the return of Tony Stark to Earth and his all too understandable if cynical attack on Steve Rogers. We get Thor brooding about the taunts of Thanos from their last meeting and the team getting to work with Carol Danvers. All this leading up to the "final" confrontation with Thanos. The team avenges all right... To no fruitful end though. Well... From that point I was under the film's spell for the most part. I was willing to see where it would take me and it took me five years into the future.

Now, this was not unexpected but I also assumed this would not be a permanent state. We see that the Snapture has had a big effect on the heroes, though the effect on the wider world is muted at best. One of the Russo brothers doing a cameo at an encounter group and Scott Lang walking around a dilapidated neighborhood isn't quite setting the table for any real tight focus on the rest of the world. But that doesn't take away from this film too much. We see how the failure to stop Thanos has weighed down on most of our cast in some way, changed them in others but it is THE fact of their life now. It's the moment that they are still living in for the most part even years later. A chance encounter between a rat and the control panel of Hank Pym's Quantum Tunnel from ANT-MAN AND THE WASP (what I like to call "The Rat That Saved The Universe".) then releases Scott Lang back into the real world of the post Snapture Earth and it's that, Scott's perspective that the Quantum Realm might be the key is what sends the story into plot mode. Here then is the set up Now the film takes some time getting to plot mode and then lazily gets there setting up all it's dominoes before even getting close to knocking them down. And that really works.

It works and it has weight. In the movie, while there's a some broad humor spread all around, the bulk of the "funny" is put onto the shoulders of either Scott Lang or, surprisingly enough, Thor. For both those characters it does in meaningful ways kinda diminish them. Sorry, but it does. At the same time better it be concentrated on just them rather than spread to frequently to all the other characters. That's not to say that others don't get funny moments but with them it's not the constant "joke, joke, joke" rhythm Thor and Scott get employed for. And this is good because this film, even if it's dealing with flights of fancy like time travel, never let's you forget these are heroes on a serious mission, with far reaching consequences. By the time Black Widow sacrifices herself the stakes are more than apparent and at the forefront.

I know some have felt the time heist portion drags but I felt it was entertaining. In fact that's something the film never lets up on in my opinion. It's even when quiet, still very much holding your interest. I don't think the film felt "LOOOONG". It felt... Long. But not "LOOOONG". The number of characters and subplots it was juggling made it's length a necessity and while sure, I can't say that the middle is action packed it's still filled with stuff that interests us. It's a bit of a "victory lap" by Marvel as well with it's replaying of events from the past films we know but I think it's very smart and quite fun. Things like the upending of the elevator scene from WINTER SOLDIER, the meeting of Hulk and the Ancient One, and of course having to see the sacrifice for the Soul Stone play out again... These were cracker jack scenes that didn't bore, didn't make me want things to speed up.

And the thing is at the end of that section, pretty quickly things pick up and we are given a face melting, and I mean that... FACE MELTING, final third. Having disposed of Thanos at the start the time travel element of the film allows for yet another confrontation with the Mad Titan, only one from the past, without the Infinity Gauntlet. This is still more than enough to seem to overwhelm our collected heroes, who had managed to create their own Gauntlet and employ the Hulk to undo the Snapture. We get the barest recognition that the heroes' plan worked before Thanos starts his attack. This past version is of the mind to fully take advantage of the Avengers doing all the hard work of gathering the stones for him. There is a slight change in Thanos as presented in this movie. He's still the committed bad guy with a religious zeal but in Infinity War he was more zen like. Perhaps a result of having attained each goal so methodically during the course of that film's run time. Here, he still has that borderline religious zealotry but he's more of a hungry wolf. And this wolf still has a pack to call on. And while he takes on the Avengers' Trinity of Cap, Iron Man and Thor, their valiant efforts to thwart this version of Thanos are heroic but ultimately futile. Its a scene of grand heroic effort. I also must say that this version of Thanos having the knowledge that they killed his successful predecessor must play into his feelings in regards to the good guys' continual obstinate refusal to just give up, to the point he's going to take his revenge on planet Earth and once in possession of the Gauntlet do more than wipe out half of life but truly recreate all that is as he sees fit. End reality and then mold it in whatever fashion he wants, setting himself up as more than just a messianic figure but now as a dark god of a new creation that will be built on the destruction of all things.

And I gotta say because the film has so many plot threads hanging around, and yet it keeps you occupied with what it's presenting with in the moment that in this third act it keeps giving you a mix of emotional and action beats that just work so well because they are visceral and calculated for maximum impact. After a bravura moment of fan service with Capt. America wielding Thor's hammer (a time displaced Mjolnir, not Stormbreaker, so the worthiness enchantment still plays a role) the tide still hasn't turned and Captain America looks to be staring death in the face.

And then having distracted us with this already edge of your seat moment that plays out like a last stand... They play you like a fiddle and give you hope. They give you justice. They give you... A SUPER HERO STORY. With deft sleight of hand they made you forget that they had confirmed that the victims of Thanos from IW had indeed come back. And the ramifications for Cap, Thor and Iron Man are not lost on the audience. Now all the forces of Thanos don't face six heroes. They face the "the fallen". Every superhero, and whatever they bring to the table are brought into the fray and the payoff is a CGI filled fight sequence for the ages where we get probably the biggest and best super human melee, donnybrook and showdown of and super hero film ever. EVER. You have seen these words before but I think there's no other way to say it. It was the experience of reading a comic book brought to life. Here are the committed warriors of all that is dear to us facing off against an army of darkness using powers and abilities of the gods of old to protect the mundane world of today. It was incredibly well thought out and with flourish after flourish that never let up. And it not only had spectacle but melded fan service and characterization while STILL moving the plot to it's ultimate conclusion.

This all ends with Iron Man taking center stage and with perhaps the most fitting final words that need no more embellishment, Robert Downey Jr. proclaims what he did over a decade ago... Affirms that he IS Iron Man and then puts an end to Thanos, but also ends out the Marvel Cinematic Universe as we had come to know it, fitting in a film that literally took us on a tour of this universe in it's three hours.

The rest of the film... I can't say it's NOT messy if any thought is put into it. I know it will have it's defenders who will man the gates against criticism until they die, but sorry... The creators chose narrative fulfillment over logic, in story logistics or any other considerations... And that doesn't take away from the ending at all either. This film satisfied me that quibbles with the question of "time travel" or whether Steve Rogers would deny the world Capt. America feel almost silly to hold against it. Weaving elements from the best of the Marve releases the IW and AEG duology is, without a doubt, the greatest, and perhaps first, Super Hero Epic. It did the job of appeasing my inner fourteen year old AND the 43 year old I am as well. This is what I want from a super hero film. To feel something. To be moved. But also to have that in the context of a fantasy of characters that are both larger than life in both power and ethical fortitude but touching in their human relatability as well. Caught up in a plot that has scope in spectacle and some kind of moral dimension which reaches the same places in the human mind as mythology of old. This film did that and that's no higher praise than any fan of super heroes can give it I think.

As promised part two going into the characters, how they were used and their arcs. This installment will focus on Tony Stark, Steve Rogers and Thor to be followed by a third and fourth part that gets into the characters that remain like Hulk, Ant-Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel, Nebula, Rocket and Thanos.

Spoiler: AVENGERS ENDGAME Review Part Two... (Spoilers)

IRON MAN: The guy that started it all gets to go out like a boss. I think with some honesty that in the early days of the MCU outside of the first IM film and the first Avengers film the handling of Tony Stark in his two sequels was problematic. The through line established in the first IRON MAN gets muddled pretty fast with a lot of coasting on RDJ's natural charisma which barely papers over how inert those two movies are. But with Civil War the focus becomes tighter and now seeing his movement from the break up of the Avengers, the mentoring of Spider-Man and this two part finale begun in INFINITY WAR RDJ and Marvel cement this character as one of the all time greats in super hero film. And I will not stop saying it... It's because the super hero drama overshadows the humor. Wanna know why you actually felt something? Because they actually let you FEEL something and not deflate any and all circumstances with a dad joke once every three minutes. Don't believe me? Look at the split going on with the reaction to Thorbowski. With Tony he still got laughs, and lord knows this film needed laughs, but the laughs generated don't dominate to the point his character and arc get defined by them. We get a Tony that is scared, bitter, but who ultimately finds a measur eof peace with his true love and a daughter. This was the clue that the events of the film would be a game changers for the MCU. The character at the start had put down roots in the intervening five year gap between Thanos' decimation and "death". I for a while thought the issue was going to come down to Tony having to use the Gauntlet to undo the actions of Thanos by essentially mirroring his commitment. Thanos sacrificed his daughter and thus, to undo it, Tony would have to do the same. Instead they chose to go with the noble personal sacrifice over the more weighty one I imagined. But it still worked. And the film built to this beautifully. Almost no aspect of Stark was not touched on in the film, and rather than just being a collection of familiar ticks and quips, as in Infinity War, we got a well rounded character who gets closure big time. I look at this film as co-lead by RDJ and Evans and both delivered and were handled with great care by the directors. The way the Cap and Tony feud was showcased was very real, dramatic and even quite adult. We didn't need really some big cathartic "I love you man" moment between the two. Both had guilt to atone for and this led to furthering the divide. But as adults should, when bigger issues came into play they ultimately had to see a bigger picture and put the past behind them. This all was satisfying grist for the mill of drama and evoking emotion and with RDJ doing his part to bring it to life it worked as well as it possibly could. From the tender moments with Pepper and his daughter to the amazing final moments where he saved everyone this was some of RDJ's best work in the part. Put it simply... He is Iron Man.


CAPTAIN AMERICA: The other co-lead as I stated, I think Evans has always had the tougher job in the MCU compared to RDJ's Tony Stark. For one, as good a performer as Evans is he isn't gifted with the certain something that RDJ was practically born with. That's not taking anything away from him though. He really is tasked with a bigger hurdle to get over not having to rely on the flourishes of the Tony Stark character or elan RDJ has with sharp humor. But from the start Evans has met the challenge of making Captain America a beloved character and that good will he's built with the audience pays off in this film and he will go down as one of the greats of super hero films alongside RDJ, no doubt. This version of Steve we got was on the edge emotionally and it was an understandable culmination of the journey he's been on. Cap will always be Cap. Putting it on the line until the bitter end. RDJ's part was good drama. Steve's part in the story was great fan service and I know that's often a dirty word among the online cinematic cognoscenti, but this time I think it's true. They had you fist pumping with effusiveness all throughout the movie and that's before the grand finale. I might include a lot of Steve's inner life as part of the fan service, especially given the sort of "fan fiction" ending. However that worked, however schmaltzy one might find it. If the point of Captain America isn't that he's a Super Soldier but that he's clear minded in his commitment and that said commitment inspires others around him then this film was the best send off this version of the character could have. It's why, whatever issues with the Time Travel Logistics that the film has in regards to where Steve ends the story (And make no mistake... It's an issue.) it's all still satisfying on a narrative level. It's also why handing the shield over to Sam makes more sense in the context of the MCU than to Bucky. It's somewhat disheartening that so many fans are bemoaning this act having it brought down to Bucky also having a Super Soldier Serum in his blood and the cyborg arm and disqualifying Sam because he's not super human. I can't deny, Steve being a Super Soldier is really important to the character as a super hero... But if that's the overriding lesson one takes away from Captain America as a character and a symbol well... You've missed the point entirely in my opinion. And certainly these two films IW and AEG have not missed the point about the character. He stood against an evil like no other, one on the cusp of becoming a dark god who would recreate all that is as he saw fit. In the end the Super Soldier Serum wasn't enough to stop him. What stopped him was the army that was brought in the nick of time and I feel it's because of the inspiration of Captain America and his example as the man that will find a way to win no matter what. On a personal note... Do I think that a lot of what I just wrote is pie in the sky, rah-rah immature bull****? Yes. I actually do. I think that the real world is much more complex and a lot less forgiving of nobility and it's actual effectiveness is far less than we want to think. But when it comes to super heroes, in this context what they did with Cap is all I could ever want or ask for. And Chris Evans as Cap gave it to me.


THOR: Okay... Here's where I feel the film fumbled a bit but don't get it twisted... I am in no way in the camp that this approach "ruined" Thor or that this was some hatchet job or any other of the long list of in my view hypberbolic nonsense being slung around these part in regards to Thor in AEG, and I honestly don't care if one is offended by that opinion. The fans are indeed often silly drama queens and many are bearing that out with each over the top post on the subject across the internet. Thing is though... That doesn't mean what they did was beyond criticism either. First off let me again praise the performer and the ride we've been on with this character. Chris Hemsworth has been an absolute blast as Thor from the start. In his first appearance he nailed everything appealing about the comic book Thor. He was this powerful and noble God Prince. The representative of a heroic tradition even older than the old school super heroing of Capt. America. Hemsworth first time out of the gate had the task of taking what was up until then, the most challenging feature of the MCU. Sci fi tech armor, super soldiers, gamma mutated scientist... None of those concepts are as far out as Marvel Comics' Thor mythology. To take this on meant emphasizing that no matter how weird and logic bending the Asgardian concept was, it was to be taken as though it were happening to real people. And that's key. Thor isn't so much bringing a singular character to life. It's bringing a whole world and cast of characters from the page to the screen. An outrageous fantasy drawing on the Norse mythos of the real world but which has become it's own unique and fertile corner of the American super hero comic book world. Would that translate? And how to do it? This was something that had to come off right. And by getting the supporting cast they did as well as finding Hemsworth, Marvel Studios succeeded. Now... Could that first Thor film have had more scope to it? Sure. I have heard all the complaints, and I won't re-list them here to any great extent but in the end the movie simply works and it's affect on the wider MCU can't be underestimated, especially considering what it delivered both in terms of to Thor as a character but also things like Tom Hiddleston's Loki becoming a fan favorite. When it came time to bring the heroes all together Thor was a big part of that and he was a big reason the first Avengers film is as enjoyable as it is. Hemsworth shines in the part. Noble, often full of himself, but steadfast and formidable with notes of real relatable humanity underneath it all, which came across so well just in the first Thor film alone. The scene where he can't lift the hammer is a heart breaker and then when Loki visits him you really feel for the disgraced god prince. The material with Odin and Loki was a high point for that film and showed that Hemsworth can easily hold his own as and actor with two spectacular performers. Then came THE DARK WORLD though and it's lackluster nature is why we are where we are at today with Thor. It's as though that one film wiped away everyone's memory of the first Thor film and Avengers 1. Suddenly Marvel needed to "fix" Thor. Which... I'm not sorry to say was and is just stupid. Thor in no way shape or form needed to be fixed and what's ironic to me is that the supposed "fix" was to simply triple down on the aspects that made THE DARK WORLD so damned mediocre. Here, once more, and I will never apologize for thinking this way, we have to get into the issue with how Marvel Studios films does not actually have the track record of quality that it's made out to be both among fans and in the pop culture in general at this time. I like anyone who holds super heroes dear to their hearts can do nothing but find impressive that Marvel as a studio was able to actually make so many super hero movies and fuse them into a cinematic universe that mirrors the comic books these characters and IPs all sprang from. Getting any film made and widely released is a wonder and a struggle in itself that most of us in the audience don't really appreciate the difficulties entailed. So...Kudos, HUGE kudos to Kevin Feige and Co. for doing that. Bravo! But... That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion that after eleven years that about half of the output of Marvel in terms of films is at best... Serviceable. Never terrible really, I mean, even the Dark World is not offensively bad, but I gotta call a spade a spade and say a lot of these movies are bland, calculated four quadrant fluff coasting on the good vibes of front loading a majority of them with a lot of humor and placing a perfunctory super hero story around that core of comedic moments and scenes. This isn't to say that this criticism applies to all their output. Not at all. the two Captain America sequels while overpraised to an extent by the fans are also understandably overpraised. They are great super hero movies. The first Ant-Man is an unexpectedly fun super hero movie. Black Panther turned out to be a massive crossover hit that was also gripping in it's drama about a fictional African country. They can often come across like modern day live action Disney films from the late 1970's and early 1980's, just with bigger stars and budgets. It's that approach that yielded THE DARK WORLD. I don't quite know why that's the film that gets singled out for exemplary mediocrity over the two Iron Man sequels or Guardians Of The Galaxy, or Age Of Ultron or The First Avenger, or Doctor Strange or... Well you can see where I'm going. And yet it was. And this led to the making of Ragnarok where Thor was reimagined as suddenly a heroic and noble... Meathead. Comedy is the death of dignity and suddenly Thor couldn't really find a lot of dignity. And the film found it was much more interested in making you laugh than making you care about anything. Thus, while I have to admit it's entertaining (I laughed heartily at most of it and the action was surprisingly great.) it's also weightless. It's perplexing to me that Marvel fans are surprised I and others actually want to get something akin to a legit super hero story that doesn't depend on comedy to do the heavy lifting of entertaining us while watching a film based on a comic book super hero. In Ragnarok the audience and the online fan base rewarded Marvel for making a movie where any and all drama was completely overshadowed by the jokes. Did the jokes work? Yes. Did that come at the price that not anything really mattered or registered? Sorry, but it did. Die hard Thor fans were I think happy enough that it was a hit and superficially pumped about Thor being "powered up" for action scenes, particularly because the film made the hammer an afterthought. But "The power was always in you" is pretty boilerplate. It's not really deep characterization or moved Thor forward as a character or super hero as they would like to think. The obvious focus of the creators was to deliver yet again a Marvel film loaded with comedy and barely concerned with a dramatic super hero tale. And fans and audiences ate it up. So... If you loved Ragnarok without any reservations for whatever reason, well... You contributed to what they did with Thor in AEG. I would add that what is done isn't terrible. Not the depressive spiral. Not the weight gain. Not the skirking of the throne. None of that is bad per se and in fact Thor is still important to the team and the over all plot and still has a good showing as a powerhouse of the Avengers. If your metric is mirroring the comics, and you don't get why after IW Thor couldn't just one punch Thanos... I question how well you've paid attention to the comics or if you've just seen what you want. In AEG Thor is about as effective as he was in most stories where he faces off against Thanos, either one on one or as part of a group effort. He's one of the most powerful Avengers, and he can hang in a fight and be on the front line, but he's not one to usually handle Thanos completely and deliver a defeat. Sorry but that's the history of the character from the books in this department. No, the problem with Thorbowski in AEG is that like in Ragnarok the over reliance on humor in nearly every moment concerning Thor past the moment he kills Thanos at the beginning of the film makes any of the dramatic and character stuff done, and it's actually good stuff, not register as it should. You come away only thinking about the over load of jokes. Even when Thor meets his now dead mother they can't let up. And I don't blame Hemsworth for this issue. I get why he wants to stretch those comedy chops. But as much as I liked and even loved aspects of Thor in this film they made a choice to muddy the waters on what could have been, weight gain and all, a really strong dramatic outing for the Viking God Of Thunder. It didn't ruin the character, it didn't ruin the film but if they had held back with the humor by about half we wouldn't be talking about the divisive nature of this take much at all I think. On a final note... I still want more Thor, even with this current Thorbowski phase. It looks like Hemsworth is going to be in the next Guardians film and in all honesty I had zero anticipation for that even when Gunn was originally attached because I find both GOTG 1&2 borderline grating and smug on almost every level. But having Thor along actually makes me curious to see what's going to be done because I love Chris as the character so much and he can be great in the part.

 

[MarvelFan]

A near perfection, 10/10!

Though I have only 1 nitpick, that is the handling of Thor, but I feel that I cannot allow that to ruin my experience. I really never crying when watching a movie before, but I really cried in this movie.

I cannot wait to watch this movie again.

 

[samsnee]

Spoiler

I haven't said anything about being worthy of Mjolinir.

"Who's to say it's his responsibility?" Really? How is it not his responsibility? He was only born to the king, raised and educated in all the things he would need to know in order to rule. He's only the most powerful Asgardian. The fact that he doesn't want to rule over people is part of what makes him such a great candidate, it means he's not power hungry, it means he will be benevolent rather than a tyrant. He's uniquely positioned as the best for that job and... he runs away. Runs away, turns his back on his people, and makes s#!t€ out of everything he was before.

What a spectacular message to send. "Hey kids! Are there things in life that you are responsible for? Are there people around you who rely on and need you? Well, tell them to go f*** themselves because there might be other things you "want" to do instead."

File that under: "How NOT to write a superhero".

Hey, remember this scene:


"This isn't about the crown, this is about the people, and they're dying, and they're you're people too"
"Go ahead, stay here and enslave people for that lunatic, keep drinking, keep hiding... but me? I choose to run toward my problems and not away from them, 'cause that's what heroes do"


So, if taking care of the people of Asgard isn't Thor's responsibility, who's responsibility is it?
Valkyrie's?? I'll point out she'd abandoned Asgard for many thousands of years, in favour of becoming a slaver. She had absolutely no qualms about capturing people and selling people into slavery where they would almost certainly die violent deaths at a gladiator arena.
What a queeeeeeen!


Nah mate, after all the great work done in Ragnarok they butchered Thor's characterisation in this. He was turned into a dumb, selfish, man-child, but hey! at least now he'll fit right into GotG...

Spoiler

Fair point in using that clip from Ragnarok. I just think this time, it was different. They all thought they could go fight Thanos, get the stones, and undo what he did and win, like they always do. When they realized he destroyed the stones and they didn't have a way to fix it, they all felt powerless for the first time, which is why he abandoned who he was. He questioned his ability to protect Asgard, and his talk with his mother helped him see a different perspective (which is clearly not one Odin agreed with based on Ragnarok)

It seems like Hemsworth is really enjoying playing this character again, so if this arc he is on means he will come back for more, I'm willing to go along for the ride.

 

[Fading]

Most of the plot holes I can overlook. But a few still bug me. Just not enough to ruin the experience.

Spoiler

Like if changing the past creates a branch off alternate reality. Instead of affecting the entire timeline. Why does our Cap staying in the past return to our present? Shouldn't that change have caused a branching alternate timeline as well? Leading him to live in the alternate reality he created? Or at least live his life out in the timeline he stayed in?

A few that initially bugged me while I was still fresh from seeing it were easier to figure out later. Like killing past Thanos, and Nebula. But returning all the stones. Returning the stones was more for the past having the stones for protection than purely keeping the past unaltered. So it just means one alternate reality is missing it's Thanos, and Nebula.

 

[shabadoo25]

Most of the plot holes I can overlook. But a few still bug me. Just not enough to ruin the experience.

Spoiler

Like if changing the past creates a branch off alternate reality. Instead of affecting the entire timeline. Why does our Cap staying in the past return to our present? Shouldn't that change have caused a branching alternate timeline as well? Leading him to live in the alternate reality he created? Or at least live his life out in the timeline he stayed in?

A few that initially bugged me while I was still fresh from seeing it were easier to figure out later. Like killing past Thanos, and Nebula. But returning all the stones. Returning the stones was more for the past having the stones for protection than purely keeping the past unaltered. So it just means one alternate reality is missing it's Thanos, and Nebula.

Spoiler

This plot point really can't be explained and we will all have to live with it. The writers were going to do this for Cap come hell or high water logic be damned. Don't invest any more time thinking about it.