The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Razor Crest]

Imagine Joker breaking into an old lady’s home and putting on her lipstick in the bathroom before he kills her.
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Ted Levine would have made an incredible Joker back in the day, extraordinary actor.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Ted Levine was a good Sinestro!

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

If He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is playing Joker, that indicates to me that they wouldn’t have trouble securing him for multiple appearances in spin-offs, sequels, etc;. I love that they got the guy at the very beginning of a promising career. Would love to see Joker popping up in The Penguin and GCPD as a wildcard! Hopefully Pattinson isn’t too busy for appearances in the spin-offs. I’m so tired of all these Batman spin-offs with no Batman.

 

[AndyTrevino]

How would you guys feel about this Joker looking rather deformed as a way to give him a version of that classic long, narrow-shaped facial structure?

 

[shauner111]

If He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is playing Joker, that indicates to me that they wouldn’t have trouble securing him for multiple appearances in spin-offs, sequels, etc;. I love that they got the guy at the very beginning of a promising career. Would love to see Joker popping up in The Penguin and GCPD as a wildcard! Hopefully Pattinson isn’t too busy for appearances in the spin-offs. I’m so tired of all these Batman spin-offs with no Batman.

If they did it tastefully then ok. But overexposure would be featuring Joker in 3 movies and 1 or 2 spin-offs. Same with Batman. I don't think Rob/Batman needs to appear in GCPD or Penguin or Catwoman to tell those stories effectively. I'm good with each show talking about him, that's really all I need. These Batman movies are going to be on Batman's shoulders, where he's in almost every single scene. I think that's more than enough to let the spin-offs do their thing without him physically appearing. I won't complain if they do but I'd rather wait every few years to see Rob on screen instead of being bombarded by the same Batman on my tv every year. IMO we're all better off if he keeps some distance after playing Bruce and a few years later it's like "ahhh I've been aching to get back to this Batman character. It's been a while. I have all these ideas and I'm excited to return to this role". As opposed to a routine year in, year out like some obligation.

I just want Rob to feel refreshed every time he puts on the cowl. I don't want him to get burnt out. I wanna miss Batman!

 

[Mindreaper21]

How would you guys feel about this Joker looking rather deformed as a way to give him a version of that classic long, narrow-shaped facial structure?

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Nah. Get the makeup team to make him look like Glen Close.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Nah. Get the makeup team to make him look like Glen Close.
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I can't tell if you're joking or not but I just want to see the long narrow facial structure already. If it's done similarly to how I'm suggesting I feel like it could look quite frightening.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I can't tell if you're joking or not but I just want to see the long narrow facial structure already. If it's done similarly to how I'm suggesting I feel like it could look quite frightening.

Actually, I’m not really joking. After seeing how the makeup team made Collin resemble Richard Kind, it hit me that the same thing could be done for whose playing Joker when I saw a photo of Glen Close. She has natural Joker-esque/witch-like features which I think can be pulled off by molding those features onto someone else without making them look too unnatural.

I can do without Joker having a narrow face if he can at least have those witch-like features. That’s more terrifying to me.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Actually, I’m not really joking. After seeing how the makeup team made Collin resemble Richard Kind, it hit me that the same thing could be done for whose playing Joker when I saw a photo of Glen Close. She has natural Joker-esque/witch-like features which I think can be pulled off by molding those features onto someone else without making them look too unnatural.

I can do without Joker having a narrow face if he can at least have those witch-like features. That’s more terrifying to me.

That's fair but Penguin to me honestly looks a lot more like the Arkham Origins version.

Even so I'd rather Joker look like an actual comic book or video game version instead of a real person. It's just that nearly every big screen Joker actor has had a roundish face and I just kinda want something different. They could accomplish that by making his face look rather deformed instead of looking like a cosplayer.

Honestly I'd argue that the witchy features could go hand in hand with the narrow face and look even creepier with all the chemical damage.

 

[Mindreaper21]

That's fair but Penguin to me honestly looks a lot more like the Arkham Origins version.

Even so I'd rather Joker look like an actual comic book or video game version instead of a real person. It's just that nearly every big screen Joker actor has had a roundish face and I just kinda want something different. They could accomplish that by making his face look rather deformed instead of looking like a cosplayer.

Honestly I'd argue that the witchy features could go hand in hand with the narrow face and look even creepier with all the chemical damage.

The tricky part with making Joker look like a comic or video game version is that his face is extremely exaggerated. Trying to accomplish that has a slim chance of success and could look like terrible cosplay or just comically bad prosthetics. You have to consider whoever the actor may be and what can actually can be done with his face.

I’m totally against a deformed looking Joker, because it would just make me laugh at how ridiculous he looks. What makes Joker scary is not making him look like a monster, but making him feel like a monster wearing a human face.

Penguin is another character whose features are extremely exaggerated in comics and games too, but in the film he looks a bit more realistic and looks absolutely phenomenal. There’s plenty of real people with that witch-like features (no disrespect to anyone who has that sort of face) that could serve as an inspiration. That’s still something we haven’t had either.

 

[AndyTrevino]

The tricky part with making Joker look like a comic or video game version is that his face is extremely exaggerated. Trying to accomplish that has a slim chance of success and could look like terrible cosplay or just comically bad prosthetics. You have to consider whoever the actor may be and what can actually can be done with his face.

I’m totally against a deformed looking Joker, because it would just make me laugh at how ridiculous he looks. What makes Joker scary is not making him look like a monster, but making him feel like a monster wearing a human face.

Penguin is another character whose features are extremely exaggerated in comics and games too, but in the film he looks a bit more realistic and looks absolutely phenomenal. There’s plenty of real people with that witch-like features (no disrespect to anyone who has that sort of face) that could serve as an inspiration. That’s still something we haven’t had either.

Yeah I'm not talking about him looking like Count Chocula, obviously it would be more realistic. And yes, Joker's always been more inwardly scary but I'd like to change that for once and have his outward appearance reflect his monstrous inward personality. Ledger looked creepy but they haven't done anything particularly scary with the chemical accident angle onscreen yet.

Give him a face that'll give children in Gotham nightmares for years.

 

[DKDetective]

That's what I meant by saying that The Joker can be truly unpredictable and impossible to pin down to one specific MO, or one specific method or style of killing. Maybe one day he kills 2 people, the next 1 person, and the new a dozen.

As for comparing to real life killers, it can definitely be useful to look at this through that lens, because that's exactly what Reeves has done with The Riddler. For Riddler, they clearly drew major inspiration from Zodiac among others. Zodiac was a very specific kind of killer. Zodiac killed several people, had a slight flair for the theatrical (wore a mask once like this Riddler does), and toyed with police extensively. He sent ranting letters, drawings, and puzzles (which were nearly impossible to solve) to police on numerous occasions. His true motivations were ultimately unclear, although his letters gave some clues. He enjoyed some attention from police and the media with his letters and puzzles, but never was brazen enough to show his face or reveal his actual identity. He was smart and cunning enough to evade capture and his still never been truly identified to this day.

Zodiac was a good (but not perfect) analog to a character like The Riddler, which Reeves was smart enough to consider. Reeves took the concept and aesthetic of Zodiac, then applied it to the Riddler and adapted/amplified these aspects to fit the world of Gotham and Batman. He gave him a specific motivation and specific targets (high ranking officials/politicians), made his murders/crimes/riddles more grotesque and over-the-top (Zodiac mostly just shot people), and has obviously given him a major over-arching plan for Batman and Gotham, rather than just making him a simple murders who kills a few random people.

Whichever direction he decides to go, it's likely that Reeves would do something similar with a character like The Joker. Draw inspiration from multiple serial killers, mass murderers, and/or gansters to come up with his own cinematic version of The Joker that will fit the world and universe he has established, obviously adding theatrics and comic book flair. But Reeves keeps harping on how realistic and "grounded" he wants his Batman to be, so there will naturally be some elements of realism applied to his Joker, as well.

Nah. Get the makeup team to make him look like Glen Close.
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These posts gave me an idea... What about modelling Joker after Glen Close's character in Fatal Attraction? Not necessarily in a sexual manner, but really go all in Joker's obsession with Batman and really play up that his crimes are committed in some sort of twisted attempt at gaining Batman's attention/approval? It's an idea played with in the comics and games and would be a fresh take on film.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I'd rather adapt it in the way ASHOSE portrayed it where Joker's just more of a troll who loves to get under Batman's skin, even if he has to be sexual about it. We've never really seen their dynamic realized onscreen to that extent.

Wanting to gain Batman's approval sounds kinda...pathetic in a slightly un-Jokerish way?

 

[TalkNReview]

I’d love the jokers face utilised more in way where people are scared of him for both his actions and face when they meet him. Not for him to be deformed but utilise the creepy smile in the dark or parts of the makeup.

Similar to the scenes in Burtons Batman, where jack is like mirror or where he was walking in the dark for the first reveal and you can see something isn’t quite right with the face. Keep that joker personality but uses his face etc in a horror kind of way, to freak people out

 

[AndyTrevino]

I really do like the idea of The Joker wearing actual lipstick on top of a scarred, rather deformed face. Basically just him looking more freakish.

 

[Mindreaper21]

These posts gave me an idea... What about modelling Joker after Glen Close's character in Fatal Attraction? Not necessarily in a sexual manner, but really go all in Joker's obsession with Batman and really play up that his crimes are committed in some sort of twisted attempt at gaining Batman's attention/approval? It's an idea played with in the comics and games and would be a fresh take on film.

I can definitely see that for Joker. Though it could be taken a step further and make the reason for this obsession really bizarre. Or, like I mentioned before, a sort of Son of Sam concept where Joker believes that Batman is actually sending him subliminal messages and telling him to commit crimes. I highly doubt we would get anything like that, but it’s interesting.

 

[AndyTrevino]

That just sounds kinda lame to me personally. Just have it to where Batman fails to save him at Ace Chemicals, visits him in Arkham out of guilt, and build Joker's obsession with Batman off of that.

 

[Mindreaper21]

That’s what I find lame. I don’t like Joker having a sympathetic origin. Never liked that storyline. Plus it’s pretty much already been done.

 

[shauner111]

That’s what I find lame. I don’t like Joker having a sympathetic origin. Never liked that storyline. Plus it’s pretty much already been done.

Just because Batman doesn't save him at Ace Chemicals, doesn't make Joker sympathetic. If he was the red hood, and a unrelenting criminal...then there's nothing to feel sorry for. Especially if it's done like Zero Year where he had a choice to take Batman's hand and instead just laughed about it and took the fall anyway.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Just because Batman doesn't save him at Ace Chemicals, doesn't make Joker sympathetic. If he was the red hood, and a unrelenting criminal...then there's nothing to feel sorry for. Especially if it's done like Zero Year where he had a choice to take Batman's hand and instead just laughed about it and took the fall anyway.

I’m still not really a fan of him falling into chemicals. I rather not even know why his skin is that color. Maybe it’s a rare birth defect for all I know. We may end up with something closer to Telltale’s Joker to be honest, but I would like to see something different with his psychology. That’s really my point here. I want there to be something deep, bizarre and twisted as to why he obsesses over Batman. Joker is someone who’s motivations really only make sense to him.

 

[PurpleStar]

How would you guys feel about this Joker looking rather deformed as a way to give him a version of that classic long, narrow-shaped facial structure?

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Yeah that's what I hope for, as well as the tall lanky body. It would be ideal if it's someone with that sort of face naturally I.e. thin long face, quite aquiline nose. Like the cosplayer Anthony Misiano had such a Joker face without prosthetics. But if someone has the acting if not the face, I don't mind some prosthetics - I'd just not want something too exaggerated because that is tricky in live action. Joker is often drawn or animated in a very stylised way, but that won't work in live action (not that you can't do something creepy. See Max Shreck as Count Orlok or of course Conrad Veidt as Gywnplaine). Just capture the essence of the look, but not some of the extremes of exaggeration (you know like the extremely long chin he's often been drawn with lol).

 

[AndyTrevino]

That’s what I find lame. I don’t like Joker having a sympathetic origin. Never liked that storyline. Plus it’s pretty much already been done.

The sympathy would come from Batman himself feeling guilty over not saving him in time. Not from us towards Red Hood One himself because he's already evil.

I say if he's already evil, we don't know his real name, and don't know about his day to day life then I'm good.

 

[shauner111]

I’m still not really a fan of him falling into chemicals. I rather not even know why his skin is that color. Maybe it’s a rare birth defect for all I know. We may end up with something closer to Telltale’s Joker to be honest, but I would like to see something different with his psychology. That’s really my point here. I want there to be something deep, bizarre and twisted as to why he obsesses over Batman. Joker is someone who’s motivations really only make sense to him.

I'm fine with never seeing what happened to him, why his skin is like that. I prefer the mystery too. But if they had to show his origin, I'd do the Red Hood that way we still never know his name or what his face looked like before the accident. Yet it still serves as a bit of an origin, shown to us in the GCPD show. The Red Hood Gang have never appeared in a movie so i support it. But I'm also with you on never explaining his backstory.

 

[DeadlyWest]

If they had to do an origin, I'd actually rather not go the Red Hood route. It's essentially what happens in 1989 and I'd rather they did something different. If anything, I'd actually rather his origin was that he has no tragic backstory. He just seemingly, out of nowhere, becomes this entity of pure evil when before he had a relatively normal life. It'd still keep the mystery and add to his unpredictability

 

[PurpleStar]

If they had to do an origin, I'd actually rather not go the Red Hood route. It's essentially what happens in 1989 and I'd rather they did something different. If anything, I'd actually rather his origin was that he has no tragic backstory. He just seemingly, out of nowhere, becomes this entity of pure evil when before he had a relatively normal life. It'd still keep the mystery and add to his unpredictability

I think with Joker 2019 that is sort of the apex of sympathetic Joker imo, taking that element first introduced in The Killing Joke. So, it would be best to get away from that. You could argue that the complete evil out of nowhere has been done already with Ledger, but that version is more grounded in reality than comic book Joker and more grungy etc and really very much a standalone take. There's still room for mysterious evil Joker, especially if they go for a more comic accurate look, but those creepy gothic and expressionist horror aesthetics Joker's had sometimes.

I'd not mind the red hood origin tbh, if simply because it's not been done in live action really. But it is a bit hokey, I've always thought so tbh, so if they can come up with something interesting with it it could work, although it's one of those things that's quite comic book-y and a bit silly really. Although of course if you start thinking like that, the whole concept of Batman is silly lol it's just some things work better than others.