Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[Elayis]

I can very easily imagine a lot of worse showrunners for LotR.

Doesn't sound like Tolkien Estate got good pitches, and Amazon didn't get many worthwhile pitches besides Payne and McKay's.

For me, Rings of Power is one of the sloppiest written shows I've seen in awhile. Of all the shows I willing watch only Picard is worse. Granted there are many truly terrible writers that create absolute crap, but then you couldn't pay me to watch shows like that. Rings of Power has the appearance of respectability and craft, which almost makes it worse than the ones you can tell from a glance just suck.

The LOTR rights situation reminds me of the difficulty WB had with finding filmmakers for Superman. The best they could come up with was Snyder, and even then he had to be talked into it by Nolan.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think it's a real testament to Jackson 25 years ago and how easily that could have been screwed up. It's so weird. Back then nobody understood the material and made bad adaptations, now nobody understands the material and makes bad adaptations, but for different reasons. Even if it's commercially viable, just goes to show these things take luck and serious talent to come together.

 

[Elayis]

I think it's a real testament to Jackson 25 years ago and how easily that could have been screwed up. It's so weird. Back then nobody understood the material and made bad adaptations, now nobody understands the material and makes bad adaptations, but for different reasons. Even if it's commercially viable, just goes to show these things take luck and serious talent to come together.

Yep. I never would've guessed the guy who's last film was The Frighteners would've been capable of something like Fellowship. It's still crazy to me that if Fellowship flopped it would've bankrupted New Line and the remaining two films would've been budget releases for TV.

 

[henzINNIT]

My impressions of the Tolkien Estate is that they want to protect the texts that weren't already signed away. The Silmarilion would be a huge get for a studio to exploit. They want their money as well no doubt, and LOTR is out there already. The second age is in that, and is mostly a list of events that Tolkien didn't really flesh out in any body of work. I hope some day to hear more of the details in these deals but I'm currently thinking Amazon have the relationship to negotiate certain extra details as they need them, as long as they avoid the actual text.

Yep. I never would've guessed the guy who's last film was The Frighteners would've been capable of something like Fellowship. It's still crazy to me that if Fellowship flopped it would've bankrupted New Line and the remaining two films would've been budget releases for TV.

We were super fortunate. That trilogy couldn't have been made in any other time. On the business end, but also in terms of how the films were made. Tremendous productions and on the front line of CG innovations to achieve what was needed. The Hobbit and the issues those films had shows perfectly how much things changed in just under a decade.

Agree about the other "options". Those "options" had a lot less potential IMO; although I would have definitely watched them IF they had been done in a way that reflected the writings.

WRT the showrunners "caring" about the material or the Tolkien legacy, I don't really buy that and they seem like empty words to me. Just because they say they care, doesn't make it so. I mean, they're not gonna say "Hey, look. This was a good gig. I'm familiar with the material and we're going to put together something that we think people will like."

If you care about the material, the very least you can do would be to reflect it. There's almost nothing in this show (besides some places, names, and, perhaps, some out of context events) that reflects the writings of the author. I thought PJ took too many liberties with the material because the best parts of the movies were where he stuck to the books and, where he strayed, it really didn't work in just about every case. It was, at least, recognizable that his story was the saga of the War of the Ring. This show is so out of sync with the timelines and (sparse) narrative of the 2nd age, that it qualifies as a complete reimagination of the events and I see it, as well as find some entertainment value in it, for what it is.

Depends on how you judge 'caring'. I would say Jackson cared very much about Tolkien's work and still made plenty of changes adapting it for the big screen. And he had a relatively straightforward task with full stories to work from. The job these show-runners have is a whole other situation.

I reckon there's knowledge behind this show, no doubt with some amount of the usual PR fluff too. They could be the biggest Tolkien nerds in the industry for all we know; I don't think the show proves otherwise. Choices have to be made. A million different decisions in order to wrangle literal centuries of stories into a watchable show, every one a potential line crossed for fans. There are too many holes in the blueprint to begrudge them too much for veering off course. There are degrees to 'faithfulness'.

 

[Persona]

Yep. I never would've guessed the guy who's last film was The Frighteners would've been capable of something like Fellowship. It's still crazy to me that if Fellowship flopped it would've bankrupted New Line and the remaining two films would've been budget releases for TV.

Heavenly Creatures is still his best movie, in my book.

 

[DKDetective]

Reddit has finally turned on this blasphemy and it is glorious:

 

[DKDetective]

 

[DKDetective]

 

[Iceman]

I think it's a real testament to Jackson 25 years ago and how easily that could have been screwed up. It's so weird. Back then nobody understood the material and made bad adaptations, now nobody understands the material and makes bad adaptations, but for different reasons. Even if it's commercially viable, just goes to show these things take luck and serious talent to come together.

The show really does show exactly how good those LotR films were. So many levels in between these where LotR could have landed. Even Jackson himself came back and wasn’t anywhere near as good.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I had hoped this show would get it together but it doesn’t look like it’s happening. All that obscene money for VFX and $5 for cheap amateur scripts. Wheel of Time was better than this. Episode 7 was the worst written and directed yet. On top of that, it feels like this episode had a different idea or direction for these characters than previous episodes did which has led to inconsistencies.

 

[Doctor Jones]

View attachment 59193

Have you been watching the whole show?

 

[DKDetective]

Have you been watching the whole show?

Oh yes, it has been like watching a car crash for me... despite how horrible, I cannot look away.

I honestly cannot believe that Amazon spent $1 billion on such an amateur piece of crap.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Oh yes, it has been liking watching a car crash for me... despite how horrible, I cannot look away.

I don't know how you do it. Against my better judgement I tried watching episode 3 and shut it off once they introduced Isildur and Elendil. "This is Elendil! Get it?!" It reminded me of when Thranduil tells Legolas about Aragorn at the end of BOTFA. Just blunt stupidity. They just seem to be hitting all of the obligatory check marks with this show.

In a nutshell, what has actually happened? What's the story? I tried reading the wiki but was bored and confused.

 

[DKDetective]

I don't know how you do it. Against my better judgement I tried watching episode 3 and shut it off once they introduced Isildur and Elendil. "This is Elendil! Get it?!" It reminded me of when Thranduil tells Legolas about Aragorn at the end of BOTFA. Just blunt stupidity. They just seem to be hitting all of the obligatory check marks with this show.

In a nutshell, what has actually happened? What's the story? I tried reading the wiki but was bored and confused.

So basically that Sauron sigil that he is carving into everything is actually a map of the Southlands... AKA Mordor. Galadriel realizes that it is a call to the servants of Mordor to found a land of their own. Galadriel tried to convince the Numenoreans to save the Southlands.

The Palantir are not the seeing stones that we know, but instead crystal balls that show the future. Miriel looks into one and it shows her the end of Numenor. She decides to send an expedition. Galadriel's shipwreck buddy, Halbrand, is the reluctant heir to the throne of the Southlands.

The Elves believe that their light is dying and Celebrimbor is trying to engineer a solution. They need mithril, which is the mythical fruit of a tree that had a Silmaril in it in the Misty Mountains. It is super extra magical and takes away the sickness that is killing the light of the Eldar. Bunch of politicking between Elrond and During to try and get it for Celebrimbor.

In the Southlands, orcs led by Adar, a corrupted elf, are searching for a a dark magic sword. They attack Bronwyn's village. Her son, Theo, found the sword. They try and fight the orcs off. They get the sword, but Numenor saves the day.

However, the orcs send a Sauron cultist with the magic sword to achieve their goal during the battle. Turns out its magic has no bearing, but it is the key to a device that opens a water reservoir and lets the water flow into those tunnels the orcs have been digging. They flow to Mount Doom and the water causes it to erupt and darken the land turning the Southlands into Mordor. Adar claims to have killed Sauron for sacrificing his orc babies in his plans.

King Durin shuts down his son's mithril mine (presumably giving the Elves just enough mithril to make rings) but throws a leaf down it which awakens the Balrog.

Halbrand was wounded in the battle and Galadriel is taking him to Eregion for Elvish medicine.

Some mystery box crap is happening with the Hobbits and the Meteor Man. He is being chased by some weird cultist folks. All of it is meaningless so far.

Like I keep telling everyone, if you want a genuinely good new fantasy series, come watch Interview with the Vampire on AMC. It is a seriously great adaptation.

 

[Boom]

View attachment 59187View attachment 59188View attachment 59189View attachment 59190View attachment 59191View attachment 59192

Post of the year. I'm crying.

 

[DKDetective]

Post of the year. I'm crying.

That is high praise!

I just curated the best memes off of Reddit.

 

[TheWiseGuy487]

*me reading through thread posts while still enjoying the show*



Man, I get peoples’ issues, but the discourse over the quality or canonicity is just exhausting.

 

[Persona]

Wheel of Time was better than this.

To each their own but that's a hard "no" for me, dog.

We will see how the season finale goes. WoT's was absolutely atrocious, if RoP's is somehow even worse than maybe I'd put them in a similar ballpark. But at the moment there isn't an aspect of RoP that I don't like better than WoT.

Episode 6 of RoP was orders of magnitude better than the best WoT episode (for me either episode 2 or 4).

 

[Persona]

Oh yes, it has been like watching a car crash for me... despite how horrible, I cannot look away.

I honestly cannot believe that Amazon spent $1 billion on such an amateur piece of crap.

Maybe do yourself a favor and stop watching?

I could counter-argue your points about the last episode (and would do so except I have done this so much on reddit the past few days on these exact same points, I just have to accept the nitpicking and hate-watching is not going away).

But I get it, you don't like the show so you have no good faith towards it, so you're not going to buy any apologetics on its behalf. I nitpick movies I don't like, too. With a TV show I usually just stop watching. But I guess with this TV show because it's Tolkien or expensive or something people are just gonna keep watching and complaining for as long as it's around.

 

[Persona]

And don't get me wrong, the show has issues beyond nitpick stuff. For me it's mostly a product of it struggling to pull off some of its ambitions. For others, it seems like the go-to criticism is "bad writing." Different perspectives around some of the same issues.

 

[misjuevos]

So this show is guaranteed 5 seasons no matter what? Is that correct? I think that was the deal that was made is they have to do 5.

 

[Persona]

I don't think they have to do 5. I could be wrong. But I don't see why Amazon couldn't pull the plug. They got the rights from the Tolkien Estate and then Payne & McKay pitched a 5 season plan.

 

[misjuevos]

I don't think they have to do 5. I could be wrong. But I don't see why Amazon couldn't pull the plug. They got the rights from the Tolkien Estate and then Payne & McKay pitched a 5 season plan.

Ah ok, thanks. Yeah I don't see this going 5 seasons if they don't do a major overhaul. They need to start forging some rings asap. There are so many rings that just following the corruption would be enough to fill a season. Or we see a set of rings each season and follow that races time with their rings leading to the war.

 

[Doctor Jones]

So basically that Sauron sigil that he is carving into everything is actually a map of the Southlands... AKA Mordor. Galadriel realizes that it is a call to the servants of Mordor to found a land of their own. Galadriel tried to convince the Numenoreans to save the Southlands.

The Palantir are not the seeing stones that we know, but instead crystal balls that show the future. Miriel looks into one and it shows her the end of Numenor. She decides to send an expedition. Galadriel's shipwreck buddy, Halbrand, is the reluctant heir to the throne of the Southlands.

The Elves believe that their light is dying and Celebrimbor is trying to engineer a solution. They need mithril, which is the mythical fruit of a tree that had a Silmaril in it in the Misty Mountains. It is super extra magical and takes away the sickness that is killing the light of the Eldar. Bunch of politicking between Elrond and During to try and get it for Celebrimbor.

In the Southlands, orcs led by Adar, a corrupted elf, are searching for a a dark magic sword. They attack Bronwyn's village. Her son, Theo, found the sword. They try and fight the orcs off. They get the sword, but Numenor saves the day.

However, the orcs send a Sauron cultist with the magic sword to achieve their goal during the battle. Turns out its magic has no bearing, but it is the key to a device that opens a water reservoir and lets the water flow into those tunnels the orcs have been digging. They flow to Mount Doom and the water causes it to erupt and darken the land turning the Southlands into Mordor. Adar claims to have killed Sauron for sacrificing his orc babies in his plans.

King Durin shuts down his son's mithril mine (presumably giving the Elves just enough mithril to make rings) but throws a leaf down it which awakens the Balrog.

Halbrand was wounded in the battle and Galadriel is taking him to Eregion for Elvish medicine.

Some mystery box crap is happening with the Hobbits and the Meteor Man. He is being chased by some weird cultist folks. All of it is meaningless so far.

Like I keep telling everyone, if you want a genuinely good new fantasy series, come watch Interview with the Vampire on AMC. It is a seriously great adaptation.

It's hard to say more than what's already been said. I don't know how it takes seven episodes to get to all of this. This is what you put in your first couple episodes and go from there. This is like if Fellowship was a show and seven episodes is at The Shire and it ends with us finding out the One Ring belongs to Sauron.

 

[Iceman]

During the finale of season 5 the old fool plot will hopefully be resolved.