Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[Silvermoth]

I think it would be cool to have a five season plan. Then give it a bit of cool off time and go back and do the morgoth years

 

[henzINNIT]

I don't think they have to do 5. I could be wrong. But I don't see why Amazon couldn't pull the plug. They got the rights from the Tolkien Estate and then Payne & McKay pitched a 5 season plan.

Amazon's deal included a '5 season commitment' so I think perhaps they are obligated to see it through. The show runners said the studio bought 50 hours of television. I guess it depends on whether Amazon paid out everything up-front, or whether other interests have a financial incentive in every season being made.

 

[Breogan]

(Elvin pompadours and lack of sideburns aside) Absolutely love the dynamic and brotherhood created with these two.

 

[Persona]

Yeah, a very interesting and engaging friendship they have.

 

[Iceman]

That's one aspect of the show they've nailed.

 

[Black Hawk]

In place of a Dark Lord, you would have a QUEEN!!!

 

[Persona]

I am surprised by how much I liked that finale. As someone who loves the lore, I probably should have hated this episode.

But as an episode of TV, I thought it was a great way to bring together a lot of what this first season was building, even some elements I wasn't sure about. I see the vision now, even if I still don't prefer or agree with some of the choices.

It did a great job of setting the stage for future seasons. The first season definitely has its flaws, the biggest being imo a pretty wonky narrative structure that undermined its storytelling and dramatic rhythm, but I do see the potential for this show to get better and better, and I think it already has a lot of promise.

You can already see some of that with Galadriel. She has evolved a LOT just in this first season. By the end of the finale she was one of my favorite characters in the show, and I couldn't have said the same about her back in episode 4 or whatever.

I'm excited for S2 in about three years, sad lol.

 

[Iceman]

I think the episode was fine. It’s the overall show momentum in building up to it that hasn’t really quite worked for me, with things feeling a bit airy and detached. But I’m interested in most of the characters so still want to see what comes next. They need to pick up the pace in season 2 and have a bit more intensity throughout.

 

[Boom]

As someone trying to enjoy the show for what it is and judge it on its own merits, I'd give it a solid 6/10. It's relatively well made, with tons of production value. The writing let it down more often than not, and the season ultimately felt pretty meandering.

As someone who's a diehard Tolkien fan, I'd give it a 4/10. For my part, there was simply too much change to or complete disregard for the canon. If the Tolkien Estate crippled Amazon with so many rights restrictions that the showrunners were forced to this degree of deviation, then shame on the Estate. If Amazon had the rights to the material they would've needed for a more faithful adaptation but opted to make changes anyway, then shame on Amazon. Either way, this is not the Second Age show I've been dreaming up these last five years. As someone who's pretty well-versed in the lore, I will never get over the sheer disappointment with what I can only perceive as a huge missed opportunity.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I enjoyed the show enough overall, but I really do hope they fix the pacing and structure for the future seasons, because those were easily my biggest problems with this first season.

The writing could also be a bit stronger as well, but episode 6 really showed how much awesome potential this show has when its firing on all cylinders and I want more of that.

 

[henzINNIT]

I wish that Corey Olsen fella live-streamed a reaction to the finale so we could see his heart break in real time. He's spent weeks talking about his theories on Sauron and The Stranger and was very, very wrong.

 

[Persona]

As someone trying to enjoy the show for what it is and judge it on its own merits, I'd give it a solid 6/10. It's relatively well made, with tons of production value. The writing let it down more often than not, and the season ultimately felt pretty meandering.

As someone who's a diehard Tolkien fan, I'd give it a 4/10. For my part, there was simply too much change to or complete disregard for the canon. If the Tolkien Estate crippled Amazon with so many rights restrictions that the showrunners were forced to this degree of deviation, then shame on the Estate. If Amazon had the rights to the material they would've needed for a more faithful adaptation but opted to make changes anyway, then shame on Amazon. Either way, this is not the Second Age show I've been dreaming up these last five years. As someone who's pretty well-versed in the lore, I will never get over the sheer disappointment with what I can only perceive as a huge missed opportunity.

I hear you. I wouldn't begrudge any Tolkien fan (I myself one) for outright hating this show (though I don't quite understand the people who seem to be watching just so they can continue to vocally hate on it as much as possible).

For me, with the finale I kind of felt like I finally understood what exactly this adaptation approach is trying to do--whether I fully agree with that approach or not. Yeah, they don't have Silmarillion rights. Yeah, even aside from that and the time compression, they are deviating a lot and adding a lot. But I am seeing the homages to Tolkien's writing and how much the show is constantly pulling, albeit indirectly, from so many different things that he wrote about this world and its peoples and the characters. Most importantly, for me, I am seeing how deeply the show is wrestling with his concepts and themes. Really examining evil vs. good and the composition of either, trying to parse will and Fate (or something even greater) and Doom, actions and their consequences. And then more just in terms of lore details, the finale helped me understand why the show approached mithril like this, taking a kernel from Tolkien in what he wrote about Nenya and figuring out a more concrete way to give the audience a mechanic for understanding the Rings of Power and the beginnings of Sauron's role in that. Because I fully get the show having a tough time with Elven magic, Tolkien himself avoided that topic more than he explained it, so the show establishing some sort of in-world basis so Elves can't just magic things in nebulous ways... yeah, I get it now, even if I still think the mithril origin story is "apocryphal" for good reason.

For whatever weaknesses it has in various areas, I find it not just a well-produced show, but a textually rich one--both within its own text and in how it interacts with Tolkien's many different, and sometimes variant, texts in the Legendarium.

However, aside from how it works as an adaptation, with the ambition and scope of what it was trying to pull off in its rather awkward narrative format, I found the dramatic efficacy somewhat lacking at times. Episode 6 and the finale, I think, showed how far a little more focus can go; those episodes really worked for me, and I am hopeful for future seasons the show will figure out how to streamline and intensify its storytelling so we get more episodes like them.

 

[Persona]

I wish that Corey Olsen fella live-streamed a reaction to the finale so we could see his heart break in real time. He's spent weeks talking about his theories on Sauron and The Stranger and was very, very wrong.

He had theories adjacent to being right, though! And he sometimes offered support for the correct Sauron theory.

I think something with the Stranger might play out that incorporates at least a fragment of his other theories there. Can't wait to see Rhun.

 

[misjuevos]

Well I am glad that is over, now I can speak about Halbrand. I spoiled myself before the season started and already knew(I dug too deep). But I did promise not to spoil it.
I am just curious how long it took most of you to figure out who Sauron was?

The only thing I wanted to see was who the stranger was and it turns out to be Gandalf. They might try to subvert this after scrambling because this season was a mess. So I wouldn't be surprised if they changed him to a blue wizard or just never say his name.

We finally got some forging of the some rings, it was quite the letdown. I can't believe they tried to have Sauron and Galadriel be a thing, this show is inept. They completely ruined Galadriel.

 

[Persona]

I loved Galadriel by the end of this season. They packed a lot of development in for her.

 

[henzINNIT]

I am just curious how long it took most of you to figure out who Sauron was?

Caught a ton of hints along the way but I was giving the writers too much credit and thinking it was a mislead. As soon as he stepped into Celebrimbor's workshop I realised my mistake. There was no doubt once he mentioned a 'gift'.

 

[misjuevos]

Caught a ton of hints along the way but I was giving the writers too much credit and thinking it was a mislead. As soon as he stepped into Celebrimbor's workshop I realised my mistake. There was no doubt once he mentioned a 'gift'.

Yeah that is the problem sometimes we think the writers are too clever, and you get some twist surprise.

 

[henzINNIT]

Yeah that is the problem sometimes we think the writers are too clever, and you get some twist surprise.

I definitely did in this instance. I became quite invested in Halbrand's potential, and over-looked the odd behaviour of the elves assuming there was more going on behind the scenes. That all fell with one reveal.

Didn't think much about the cultists at all but I guess I expected more from that season-long plot than 'they worship Sauron and are wrong about his identity'.

 

[Elayis]

Both "twists" were obvious from the beginning. To me it would've been more interesting for Halbrand to be the King of the Dead, but the show's obviously geared towards a more casual audience and that's probably too deep of a cut for most people.

These reveals just irritate me even more, all that teasing and build-up for info most of us already guessed? Nothing was gained by delaying their identities, they wasted an entire season for nothing, only to rush the important moments in the last few episodes.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The directing was much better in the finale but the writing was only a bit better than episode 7 - which 7 was the worst episode in the entire season full of dumb moments and ideas and bad directing. It still feels like the JJ Abrams people are taking cues from their former guy with Galadriel and Halbrand being sort of the new Rey and Kylo Ren which I don't have any time for. The show's sentimentality generally feels unearned but the score tries its damnedest to drill a moment into you even if the writing failed to justify it. And while I liked how the Harfoot story began it dithered throughout the season (or was absent entirely in certain episodes) and all to the get to the point that the Stranger is

Spoiler

...not Sauron and could be/not be Gandalf (I don't care anymore with these mystery boxes).

 

[henzINNIT]

Strikes me as super weird that after cutting between so many threads in most episodes, the finale didn't touch on a number of major characters. Could be two whole years waiting with Isil stuck under some wood lol

Both "twists" were obvious from the beginning. To me it would've been more interesting for Halbrand to be the King of the Dead, but the show's obviously geared towards a more casual audience and that's probably too deep of a cut for most people.

These reveals just irritate me even more, all that teasing and build-up for info most of us already guessed? Nothing was gained by delaying their identities, they wasted an entire season for nothing, only to rush the important moments in the last few episodes.

I'd argue that in Halbrand's case, it was worse than 'nothing gained' and was actually something lost. After a full season, I don't feel like Sauron is any better a villain for this, his methods are weird and convoluted, and now we no longer have that major human character going forward.

 

[Iceman]

I definitely did in this instance. I became quite invested in Halbrand's potential, and over-looked the odd behaviour of the elves assuming there was more going on behind the scenes. That all fell with one reveal.

Didn't think much about the cultists at all but I guess I expected more from that season-long plot than 'they worship Sauron and are wrong about his identity'.

So the cultists are pretty much irrelevant themselves now. Thought they would have something more about them.

 

[Iceman]

In place of a Dark Lord, you would have a QUEEN!!!

Haha, and very nice image.

 

[Iceman]

I loved Galadriel by the end of this season. They packed a lot of development in for her.

I've not had anything against this young Galadriel since the start as soon as it was established that the Galadriel we were getting here wouldn't match up in age to the one that the book timelines would indicate. I like Morfydd as a brash, inexperienced version of the character who has already made a decent amount of progress over the course of this season. If she were to develop like this over 5 seasons I think she would end up a pretty awesome character and believable as the one that becomes the version in film LotR later.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I've not had anything against this young Galadriel since the start as soon as it was established that the Galadriel we were getting here wouldn't match up in age to the one that the book timelines would indicate. I like Morfydd as a brash, inexperienced version of the character who has already made a decent amount of progress over the course of this season. If she were to develop like this over 5 seasons I think she would end up a pretty awesome character and believable as the one that becomes the version in film LotR later.

This. I thought she was great. I like the arc they are building for her and you can see in the scenes with Adar and Sauron that she realizes some of the errors she’s made in being so brash and relentless. Looking forward to seeing what happens with her now that she knows who their enemy is.