The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[BatLobster]

"Say something Nice about the ST" was trending on Twitter just the other day.

That was cool to see, although I have to admit that I think some of the ST fans, particularly a segment of TLJ fandom goes a bit over the top in their praise of it. I'm sorry, none of the ST films are better than the OT and no, The Last Jedi is not better than Empire.

I'm saying this as someone who really likes and admires a lot of what TLJ did. Please stop, haha. You're making us lose credibility. I get that the toxicity leveled against it was disgusting and unfair in a lot of cases and it's a way of fighting back against that, but let's at least be real here. The ST doesn't have a fraction of the sheer originality, innovation and beautiful simplicity of the OT. You can certainly like it more, but saying it's a better film? Nah brah. Rian Johnson himself definitely disagrees with you.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In general, I like the characters that were added and they have great chemistry. Taking plot and narrative structure out of the equation, they're entertaining. Also, TLJ I think was a great Star Wars movie. OT quality? No, and it has some flaws, but overall I love the movie. While I have cooled on TFA, it at least introduced the new characters fairly well. TROS I felt like was a waste all around.

 

[Verbal21]

"Say something Nice about the ST" was trending on Twitter just the other day.

I think that’s the problem with a lot of things, especially Star Wars. When people get defensive, they tend to double down and stand their ground even harder. Then, they just don’t want to “lose” an argument or just put so much effort in “being right” that it just becomes an endless circle of same argument points. That goes for both pro/con fans, and both sides are equally toxic.

Star Wars fans are great in general, but it’s probably also the most annoying fan base out there at their worst. And I thought Bayformer haters where bad at his peak in 2007-2011

 

[Doctor Jones]

It would be nice to have a debate about a franchise like this without always bringing up "toxic fans" or blaming them. It's become another form of lazy film criticism only this time it deflects towards faceless people on the internet. Or it's become a crutch when someone doesn't share their views.

I feel like with these movies, more people talk and debate about the fan base than they do the movies themselves. Maybe that has something to do with the idea that there's not much to talk about these movies when all is said and done.

 

[TheVileOne]

I do like the main central trio of the sequel trilogy. I for one never bought into all the Mary Sue hysteria.

I liked Kylo Ren and Snoke in Force Awakens. All the setup and elements were there IMO. I stand by that. Everything just got fumbled later.

 

[Frodo]

It would be nice to have a debate about a franchise like this without always bringing up "toxic fans" or blaming them. It's become another form of lazy film criticism only this time it deflects towards faceless people on the internet. Or it's become a crutch when someone doesn't share their views.

I feel like with these movies, more people talk and debate about the fan base than they do the movies themselves. Maybe that has something to do with the idea that there's not much to talk about these movies when all is said and done.

It's true that the term "toxic fans" is thrown around alot , and toxic means different things to different people.

I consider toxic to be name calling, insulting, bullying, motive questioning because someone disagrees with you on the ST.

Passionately, and vigorously disagreeing with someone , or someone disagreeing with you about the ST is not toxic.

Praising the ST or bashing the ST everyday is not toxic . I know there are alot of fans who do consider that toxic , but its really not imo.

As far as talking about the films themselves, there's been plenty of discussion about the films themselves among fandom on line.

There's no a lack of it. These films have been debate backwards and forwards .

I think people tend to talk about the fan bases alot in this case, because they've become a big part of the narrative surrounding these films, via social media, forums, youtube, and twitter.

Its gone beyond just disagreeing, into a fan civil war ,which has pulled in one way or another ,the cast, the directors, former and current people associated with SW, Disney and Lucasfilm , and the media.

I've yet to see people not want to share their views on these films.

Say what you will about the opinions expressed, but I've yet to see fans , critics, etc , beat around the bush about how they feel about these movies.

A lack of candor isn't the issue among SW fandom.

 

[Sian]

When I refer to 'toxic' fans, I'm referring to the kind that drove Kelly Tran off Instagram, sent Rian Johnson death threats, and made some pretty horrible comments about Adam Driver because Kylo Ren killed off Han Solo.

Those sort of people disgust me. I'm ashamed to call myself a SW fan because of the likes of them.
I'll honestly say TROS has destroyed the entire franchise for me now. But I will never resort to that kind of behaviour.
My personal stance is never giving Disney or LF any of my money again.

 

[TheVileOne]

When I refer to 'toxic' fans, I'm referring to the kind that drove Kelly Tran off Instagram, sent Rian Johnson death threats, and made some pretty horrible comments about Adam Driver because Kylo Ren killed off Han Solo.

Those sort of people disgust me. I'm ashamed to call myself a SW fan because of the likes of them.
I'll honestly say TROS has destroyed the entire franchise for me now. But I will never resort to that kind of behaviour.
My personal stance is never giving Disney or LF any of my money again.

Look at the people who sent vile messages to Laura Bailey over Last of Us 2. They made me sick to my stomach. I get not being a fan of what happened to certain characters in Last of Us 2, but Laura Bailey is not literally that character. She didn't literally do those things. She's an actor doing her job.

Those are the parts of fandoms I really hate, social media as well. IMHO, social media was a mistake.

 

[Frodo]

When I refer to 'toxic' fans, I'm referring to the kind that drove Kelly Tran off Instagram, sent Rian Johnson death threats, and made some pretty horrible comments about Adam Driver because Kylo Ren killed off Han Solo.

Those sort of people disgust me. I'm ashamed to call myself a SW fan because of the likes of them.
.

I agree. That's why I also consider harassment, racist and sexist comments, threats, etc. toxic.

They have nothing to do with arguing or debating about the films, but have to do with trying to gain some power over those who disagree with them through insults, threats, and personal attacks.

Debate the film and debate the other person's arguments. Don't get creepy because someone doesn't agree.

 

[Brother Jack]

Something nice about the ST: the cast is outstanding. If there's one superlative I can give to Abrams it's that he and his casting directors know how to pick talent for his roles. He made a star out of Daisy Ridley and John Boyega and put in two of the best actors of their generation with Oscar Isaac and frickin Adam Driver as the villain. It's weird to say this but it might be the best-cast out of the three trilogies.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Say something nice about the ST:

Kidding. I'll echo the sentiment that the cast was really good. Unfortunately the writing failed them.

I also appreciate the more naturalistic approach that the ST took in comparison to the bombastic PT, no doubt to try to mimic the OT more. I think the movies feel like they look like classic Star Wars (except made in modern times) and that's always a plus.

 

[BatLobster]

The ST certainly is beautiful to look at. A lot of really solid visual storytelling happening throughout too.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The ST certainly is beautiful to look at. A lot of really solid visual storytelling happening throughout too.

Watching this and hearing that rendition of Reys theme is already making me nostalgic.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Say something nice about the ST:

Kidding. I'll echo the sentiment that the cast was really good. Unfortunately the writing failed them.

I also appreciate the more naturalistic approach that the ST took in comparison to the bombastic PT, no doubt to try to mimic the OT more. I think the movies feel like they look like classic Star Wars (except made in modern times) and that's always a plus.

the reason classic star wars looked and felt the way it did was the limitations it had to work with at the time. You think the creatives wanted all desert or snow planets all the time? Nah. But that's all they done had to work with.

trying to replicate that look in 2015, which was informed by the tech at the time, came off as uninspired. Filming in deserts, Islands and snowy places and making them planets wasn't clever, it just came off as artistically lazy.

Once again I go back to comparing the ST to Blade Runner 2049. Neither Deakins or Denis were interested in replicating (heh) the work of Ridley Scott and Jordan Cronenwerth. They had their own vision. It was without question the blade runner world, but filtered through the creative conduit of the filmmakers that made them TODAY and the tools available TODAY.

 

[Frodo]

The cast was good and the acting was good, no question.

I separate whatever issues I have with the characterizations ,from the actors and performances themselves.

Daisy Ridley is adorable imo.

 

[Brother Jack]

The ST is objectively better shot and better acted than the PT.

 

[TheVileOne]

The ST is objectively better shot and better acted than the PT.

Yes, I agree. Shot all of them on film. Johnson and Abrams did both constantly shoot for practical, in-camera setups as much as possible. Practical sets, animatronics, and puppetry.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

CS Interview: The Russo Bros. Talk Coen Bros. & Star Wars

ComingSoon.net had the opportunity to speak with Joe and Anthony Russo about their weekly series Russo Bros. Pizza Film School, specifically about their love for the Coen Brothers after hosting No Country for Old Men star Josh Brolin for Episode 5, in addition to their views on Star Wars following Episode 4 which featured Mark Hamill and the group discussing The Empire Strikes Back.

CS: But and then in terms of your Empire Strikes Back episode, it brought up something that has always kind of bugged me about Star Wars, which is that I feel like in the prequels, sort of the choice that Anakin has to make, where he’s choosing between the Jedi and saving the woman he loves, it’s a compelling choice. It’s a wrenching choice. But in both the original trilogy and the new trilogy that just came out, I feel like Luke and Rey, they’re basically being offered a power grab. Rule the universe with me. And it’s pretty anathema to both of their characters. There’s never really a feeling like these guys are actually going to go for that. And I wanted to get your take on that. Would you have done that differently?

Anthony: Well —

Joe: I mean I think being such Star Wars fanatics, we would’ve probably focused on the Luke Skywalker story. And so, to me, there was the potential for three movies focusing on that arc coming to completion. But different choices you can make. I think you know, the fact that Star Wars is so important to us growing up, we got to make our Star Wars empire in Infinity War and Endgame. That was really our expression of what those commercial films meant to us as children and what we took away from them and the patterns of narrative structure that were so profound to us. We were able to replicate those patterns in those movies. So I think we speak to those films rather than the Star Wars films.

Anthony: I was going to say, you make a very good point about Luke and Rey. That’s a really good point in a sense that you don’t really think — they don’t seem very likely to make that choice, but it just reminds me of how similar our enjoyment of these movies is to something like opera in the sense that there can be these crude sort of narrative beats that maybe don’t play in a very subtle or sophisticated way, but there’s something about their resonance and there’s something about the way the rest of the cinema surrounds that moment and then the music and the iconography and the drama of it all that somehow creates emotion and sort of excitement and thrill and danger and peril. It’s just a reminder to me when you’re pointing your finger at something that seems weak or fit, at like how much the other elements, that sort of cinematic experience perceived is to what we walk away from a movie with, you know?

 

[Drizzle]

The ST is objectively better shot and better acted than the PT.

This is true. Both Abrams and Rian Johnson were better at directing actors than Lucas was. This is even apparent in the OT. The main cast's performances greatly improved on Empire with Irvin Kershner's direction. That isn't to say that their performances in ANH were bad at all, but everything felt more natural in Empire. With the prequels, everything felt like it was done in one take and that's it. Everyone delivered their lines as if they were doing a table read with the exceptions of Ian McDiarmid and Ewan McGregor in Revenge of the Sith and (I'm serious) Ahmed Best as Jar Jar in The Phantom Menace. Actually, the non-human characters in the PT had more personality to them. Lucas was too focused on the technical aspects of the prequels and he should have gotten an assist on both dialogue and getting better performances from the actors.

 

[Frodo]

The PT films felt much more like George's baby , while the OT seemed much more of a collaborative effort in terms of writing and directing.

I think the original intention of the ST was to try to emulate the OT films in having different writer/directors as a means of avoiding a sole vision or voice for all of the films.

In other words, they wanted to avoid one of the issues the PT in having one person with all the ideas without checks and balances , for lack of a better term.

 

[Bobber]

The PT films felt much more like George's baby , while the OT seemed much more of a collaborative effort in terms of writing and directing.

I think the original intention of the ST was to try to emulate the OT films in having different writer/directors as a means of avoiding a sole vision or voice for all of the films.

In other words, they wanted to avoid one of the issues the PT in having one person with all the ideas without checks and balances , for lack of a better term.

Well... Lucas still had the overall vision and voice of the original trilogy. He brought in directors and writers to help him improve and realize his vision, which is what he really should've done with the prequels as well.

I still love the man, but he's never been a good director. Though it's funny how A New Hope, for all it's flaws, is such an incredibly dynamic film, and the prequels are some of the most static, boring films I've ever seen.

 

[Drizzle]

Well... Lucas still had the overall vision and voice of the original trilogy. He brought in directors and writers to help him improve and realize his vision, which is what he really should've done with the prequels as well.

I still love the man, but he's never been a good director. Though it's funny how A New Hope, for all it's flaws, is such an incredibly dynamic film, and the prequels are some of the most static, boring films I've ever seen.

A lot of what made A New Hope (and Empire) great is because of producer Gary Kurtz, who had a big hand in the creative process. Return of the Jedi might have been even better had he stuck around. Rick McCallum was more or less useless by comparison on the prequels. He was just a yes man.

 

[Brother Jack]

It's kind of a miracle how good the original film was, all things considered. It was lightning in a bottle, where a constellation of the right people happened to get together to make and refine Lucas' vision. The idea that he worked by himself in a vacuum to make Star Wars what it was was never true.

 

[Bobber]

A lot of what made A New Hope (and Empire) great is because of producer Gary Kurtz, who had a big hand in the creative process. Return of the Jedi might have been even better had he stuck around. Rick McCallum was more or less useless by comparison on the prequels. He was just a yes man.

Yes, Gary Kurtz was a huge part of it. And so were all the major collaborators on the film.
I really wish George had surrounded himself with people who challenged him when he was making the prequels. He's always been good at trying to push the envelope technologically, and challenging what filmmaking can be. Unfortunately he also showed a lot of laziness, writing one or two drafts of the script, shooting EVERYTHING green screen, so he could sit comfortably in a little chair.

 

[henzINNIT]

The deleted scenes for Star Wars evoke serious prequel vibes. It was saved in large part by aggressive editing. Obviously this didn't happen for the others.