The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Donner]

I wish they had left the OT alone. Creating the new ST characters would have been fine with a cameo from an OT character, but making the ST still all about the Skywalkers and then killing off that entire bloodline feels like a very ****ty move. It's hard to watch the OT knowing what happens to the beloved characters. I hate Disney for this.

 

[Sian]

Disney were trying to please #metoo, giving us women the sort of heroine they thought we wanted instead of the one we actually wanted. Terrio wanted his Twins romantic fanfiction on the big screen.
I honestly haven't the foggiest idea what JJ wanted, he didn't just 'retcon' TLJ, he retconned TFA as well!

 

[Sian]

Harrison Ford wanted to be killed off, so...

Try telling that to his more 'extreme' fans - I've been told by one they are very glad i'm saddened by Kylo's death and I don't have the right to be called a Han Solo fan. Give me strength....

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Try telling that to his more 'extreme' fans - I've been told by one they are very glad i'm saddened by Kylo's death and I don't have the right to be called a Han Solo fan. Give me strength....

Wow, that sucks

Han Solo has always been my favorite Star Wars character. It sucked to see him die in TFA but it was not really surprising considering Harrison wanted Han to die. And, despite being bummed out by it, I personally liked how he went out in trying to turn his son back

 

[Sian]

I felt exactly the same way, my biggest regret with that scene is that Driver and Ford didn't get to have more scenes together, they have amazing father/son chemistry. the only part of TROS I liked was the rehash of the scene on the Death Star.
Looking back at TFA I suspect that scene was deliberately intended, at least by JJ, to make us hate Kylo so we'd be glad when they killed him off. I re read an interview with him lately in which he said that Kylo was genuinely thinking of going with his dad but didn't because he realised 'there was no turning back'. Considering that the whole theme of the OT was redemption, that you CAN change and be a better person, as demonstrated by Luke's determination to reclaim his father in ROTJ, I think that was a cheap shot. JJ wanted Kylo as a 'baddie', despite his relation to the OT characters. Rey was not meant to save him, she was meant to replace him. But unfortunately for JJ things didn't go according to plan. Adam's performance made a lot of people fall in love with him, and feel for him post TFA, And Rian Johnson, reading it the same way, intensified that in TLJ. He showed Kylo as much of a victim as villain, and again many of the audience identified and sympathised with him. Even at the end of the film Kylo is shown alone and probably regretful, with Hux waiting in the wings to stick the knife in.
As a result JJ did his best to make Kylo a one note villain again complete with mask and attitude, but had to give him a redemptive arc because of the character's popularity, as shown by the opinion poll SW did on their website just before the release of TROS. But, as a last swipe, he completely downplayed the character , reducing his role, to the extent of not even giving him any dialogue in the last scenes he had, while Rey, who he wanted audiences to fall in love with and root for, was given the lion's share of the film along with Finn and Poe, the latter of which really makes me laugh because he was supposed to only have a cameo in TFA and not appear in the other films at all. JJ practically rewrote TLJ, but the damage was done. All he succeeded in doing was making him look petty and spiteful. And the elevation of Rey to uber goddess who everyone fell in love with, could do no wrong, and who was so magnificent Ben was required to die so he could 'give her back to the galaxy' (actual quote from the TROS novel), spectacularly backfired. It did her character no favours. It did the film no favours. And it did JJ no favours. He came across as a sulky little kid peeved that RJ didn't give him what he wanted.

 

[herolee10]

I had thought that my feelings towards the sequel trilogy would improve with the passage of time. However, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Man, I just can't get over how Disney dropped the ball with this franchise. Correction, I can't believe on how Kathleen/JJ/Rian ruined the franchise (imho).

I still don't get on why there was even an faction called "the Resistance" when the New Republic was still in effect. Also, I really can't decide on what I hate the most.

• The fact that Luke Skywalker died as a failure.
• The fact that there aren't any living Skywalker members left in the Star Wars universe.
• The fact that it was Palpatine's offspring (Rey) that had to defeat him in the end, thus devaluing Anakin's sacrifice in ROTJ.

Honestly, a part of me wishes that they would just introduce the concept of the "Multi-Verse" in Star Wars as well and state that the events of ST are just but one of infinite possibilities.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I had thought that my feelings towards the sequel trilogy would improve with the passage of time. However, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Man, I just can't get over how Disney dropped the ball with this franchise. Correction, I can't believe on how Kathleen/JJ/Rian ruined the franchise (imho).

I still don't get on why there was even an faction called "the Resistance" when the New Republic was still in effect. Also, I really can't decide on what I hate the most.

• The fact that Luke Skywalker died as a failure.
• The fact that there aren't any living Skywalker members left in the Star Wars universe.
• The fact that it was Palpatine's offspring (Rey) that had to defeat him in the end, thus devaluing Anakin's sacrifice in ROTJ.

Honestly, a part of me wishes that they would just introduce the concept of the "Multi-Verse" in Star Wars as well and state that the events of ST are just but one of infinite possibilities.

Thankfully, Rebels introduced the possibility of alternate timelines thanks to the World Between Worlds

 

[herolee10]

Thankfully, Rebels introduced the possibility of alternate timelines thanks to the World Between Worlds

It's too bad that we can't get an honest answer from both Jon and Dave concerning their thoughts on the sequel trilogy.

I feel like if they were ever to legitimize the concept of "alternate" timelines in live action format, that they would need to do so when Mark Hamil is still interested and capable of portraying Luke.

 

[Sian]

I wasn't unhappy about Luke's fate tbh, in fact although I'm sorry they had to be killed off, I knew the actors were getting older and couldn't really play those roles for much longer. Harrison had wanted Han killed off a long time ago, and as a Jedi, Luke would never really 'die', he would always be able to stick around as a Force ghost, and although I know a lot of people disagree I loved his character arc in TLJ, most of all Hamill's amazing acting.
Regarding your other two points...100% in agreement there. Palpatine's return completely undid Anakin's sacrifice, and to put the final touch, he essentially killed off the last real Skywalker. Ben Solo didn't even get to help kill him, that was Rey's moment of glory and frankly one of the silliest things in the film.Yoda, a centuries old Jedi master, and Mace Windu, an experienced Jedi, couldn't kill him alone. Anakin and Luke had to kill him together. Yet Rey, with just a year of training, defeats him simply by using two lightsabres. I remember sitting watching that scene, and thinking to myself "Is that it?"

No matter what anyone says, the ending of the entire Skywalker saga was a disaster. Killing off the heroes entire family and handing their legacy over to the villain's descendant is not a 'hopeful satisfying' ending. No way.

 

[antsman41]

Mando could easily give us great post-OT stories on the side and not mess with the JJ nonsense. There’s a 20-25 year gap to play with.

And all we “know” is the nonsensical Ochi stuff, the idiotic Palpatine’s son stuff... and that Luke went on Jedi artifact adventures with Lando.

The rest is soft narratives ala Ben/Luke’s new Jedi order, and Han/Leia returning to their old lives... we’ll post Afterman trilogy.

 

[BatLobster]

Eh, honestly-- not that they need to at all, but I wouldn't mind if Mando made a few loose connections to the ST. I'm all for strengthening canon and deepening the existing canon where you can, because it's canon forever whether we like it or not. Otherwise what's the point of having a multimedia universe? The ST was vague enough that there's a whole ton you can do in the 30 year gap without contradicting anything and you could even improve things and make them flow better.

And Mando has actually already referenced the ST musically with the Resistance theme being used a few times.

We've seen examples of SW doing this before. Look how much Clone Wars added to and rehabilitated the prequel-era. It's now a big deal that we have Ahsoka in live action-- Anakin's apprentice who is not mentioned or even hinted at once in the films. I think just let Dave do his thing. He has a talent for bringing different eras and areas of Star Wars together and making it all fit.

Mando should stay focused on telling its own good story above all, of course.

 

[henzINNIT]

The ST needs its own 'The Clone Wars'. The trilogy feels shallow, in part because it is, but also because the era wasn't anywhere near as fleshed out by supplementary content as the PT was. And that's because Disney has been busy milking the originals this whole time, and it's exhausting. Disney need to stop fetishising the OT and actually fill in the greater story instead of bolting new bits on to the same few years. Even the Mandalorian is guilty of this in many ways, it just mines that nostalgia better.

 

[Frodo]

The most recent podcast episode of The Fanboy Garage had a pretty good discussion comparing the handling of Mando and the handling of the ST.

It's Episode 122 if anyone's interested.

 

[Brother Jack]

The ST needs its own 'The Clone Wars'. The trilogy feels shallow, in part because it is, but also because the era wasn't anywhere near as fleshed out by supplementary content as the PT was. And that's because Disney has been busy milking the originals this whole time, and it's exhausting. Disney need to stop fetishising the OT and actually fill in the greater story instead of bolting new bits on to the same few years. Even the Mandalorian is guilty of this in many ways, it just mines that nostalgia better.

That's a good point. Without TCW and Filoni in general, the PT's reputation would probably not be much better now than it was when it came out. The ST needs its own Filoni-like person who can dig into the world of the ST era and flesh out characters and ideas that were mishandled in the films.

 

[herolee10]

That's a good point. Without TCW and Filoni in general, the PT's reputation would probably not be much better now than it was when it came out. The ST needs its own Filoni-like person who can dig into the world of the ST era and flesh out characters and ideas that were mishandled in the films.

Agreed. I can honestly say that I look at the PT differently now after the continuity established in TCW.

For all we know, members of Luke's new Jedi order could have easily survived Ben's betrayal like how the old Jedi did from Order 66.

I'd like to see an a series that deals with the events before TFA and after TROS.

 

[henzINNIT]

That's a good point. Without TCW and Filoni in general, the PT's reputation would probably not be much better now than it was when it came out. The ST needs its own Filoni-like person who can dig into the world of the ST era and flesh out characters and ideas that were mishandled in the films.

There was so much beyond 'Clone Wars' too. There was plenty of prequel EU during that trilogy's run. Lucas made sure Star Wars went all-in on this new era. Just talking games, we had Pod-Racer, Jedi Power Battles, Bounty Hunter, Republic Commando and countless others, all adding extra bits to the lore and the myth for the fans.

The sequel trilogy had nothing like that. The films themselves were basically meta-stories about loving the OT; and then nearly everything else was supplementing the OT. This era never got started and it's over already. Disney's faster schedule cut down our time with this story too. It was done in 4 years opposed to 6.

 

[antsman41]

There was so much beyond 'Clone Wars' too. There was plenty of prequel EU during that trilogy's run. Lucas made sure Star Wars went all-in on this new era. Just talking games, we had Pod-Racer, Jedi Power Battles, Bounty Hunter, Republic Commando and countless others, all adding extra bits to the lore and the myth for the fans.

The sequel trilogy had nothing like that. The films themselves were basically meta-stories about loving the OT; and then nearly everything else was supplementing the OT. This era never got started and it's over already. Disney's faster schedule cut down our time with this story too. It was done in 4 years opposed to 6.

Even the comics were mostly Post-ANH or now Post-TESB.

The random ST comics were boring or useless and the Poe comic was meh.

 

[Mani-Man]

That's a good point. Without TCW and Filoni in general, the PT's reputation would probably not be much better now than it was when it came out. The ST needs its own Filoni-like person who can dig into the world of the ST era and flesh out characters and ideas that were mishandled in the films.

Sooner or later yeah, because i doubt they will forever stay in the past with the high republic.
But they will need to do a lot of work then, and it will always sting that once they go back to the ST timeline, it will be without any Skywalker.

On a personal note, i always liked the PT...but to be fair, i spent most of the time on the dvds making off.
Those 1+ hour documentations about how the movies came to be...its fantastic.
But i liked the PT before it was "cool" XD.

 

[Sian]

The ST should have been about Ben Solo, not Rey. With respect to Daisy, if they were going to bring the OC back, then the final three films in the Skywalker saga should have been about the last Skywalker. Instead, the final film relegated him to the role of villain and shoved Rey, Finn and Poe down our throats. They could have made spin off films with their original new characters, set years after the Empire's fall. Ben Solo could have had a happy ending and the Skywalker saga could have bowed out, making way for new stuff.

 

[herolee10]

The ST should have been about Ben Solo, not Rey. With respect to Daisy, if they were going to bring the OC back, then the final three films in the Skywalker saga should have been about the last Skywalker. Instead, the final film relegated him to the role of villain and shoved Rey, Finn and Poe down our throats. They could have made spin off films with their original new characters, set years after the Empire's fall. Ben Solo could have had a happy ending and the Skywalker saga could have bowed out, making way for new stuff.

Agreed. Another problem was that they couldn't figure out on whether they wanted to make Ben Solo/Kylo Ren the main antagonist for the sequel trilogy.

If the plan was to kill him in the end, then they should have just kept him evil instead of bringing back Palpatine (albeit as a clone).

Personally, I wish we could have gotten Adam Driver as the conflicted protagonist of the ST with Daisy serving as the "heiress" to the empire. The problem is Kathleen and everyone else involved had their priorities in the wrong place.

Given on how Dave and Jon have pretty much breathed new life into the SW franchise with "The Mandalorian", I hope that they can find a way to somehow undo the events of the ST.

I know that Jon and Dave respects what Lucas had created, so they won't do anything that'll hurt his work/legacy. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have that same love or respect for the material in the ST.

I'll gladly take alternate timelines or multi-verse rectons over ST's events any day of the week. Hell, if Jon and Dave were given permission to rewrite the future through Disney Plus, then bring back Mark Hamil as Luke for a proper finale to the character.

 

[antsman41]

Agreed. Another problem was that they couldn't figure out on whether they wanted to make Ben Solo/Kylo Ren the main antagonist for the sequel trilogy.

If the plan was to kill him in the end, then they should have just kept him evil instead of bringing back Palpatine (albeit as a clone).

Personally, I wish we could have gotten Adam Driver as the conflicted protagonist of the ST with Daisy serving as the "heiress" to the empire. The problem is Kathleen and everyone else involved had their priorities in the wrong place.

Given on how Dave and Jon have pretty much breathed new life into the SW franchise with "The Mandalorian", I hope that they can find a way to somehow undo the events of the ST.

I know that Jon and Dave respects what Lucas had created, so they won't do anything that'll hurt his work/legacy. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have that same love or respect for the material in the ST.

I'll gladly take alternate timelines or multi-verse rectons over ST's events any day of the week. Hell, if Jon and Dave were given permission to rewrite the future through Disney Plus, then bring back Mark Hamil as Luke for a proper finale to the character.

You said the wrong thing right off the bat. There was no “plan” ever, none.

 

[herolee10]

I'm also scratching my head on why there was even a group called "The Resistance" when the New Republic was still around.

After the fall of the Empire, shouldn't the New Republic be the majority stronghold within the SW universe at this point in time? It's like there was no progress in the galaxy's ruling system after the events of ROTJ.

 

[antsman41]

JJ wrote it as if once 9/11 happened (the obliteration of the new capitol planet(s)) we just handed our countries keys over to Osama Bin Laden (Kylo Ren/Snoke).

 

[herolee10]

JJ wrote it as if once 9/11 happened (the obliteration of the new capitol planet(s)) we just handed our countries keys over to Osama Bin Laden (Kylo Ren/Snoke).

Agreed.

Not to mention that most of the new planets introduced felt plain and uninspired in terms of conception and visuals. But then again, I guess we shouldn't have expected too much from a guy that thought making Khan into a British character would be clever and inspiring.

 

[henzINNIT]

JJ wrote it as if once 9/11 happened (the obliteration of the new capitol planet(s)) we just handed our countries keys over to Osama Bin Laden (Kylo Ren/Snoke).

Not a great analogy. It was more like they wiped out the entire US government and military in one strike, so the keys to the country were up for the taking.

I agree on the larger point though. The set-up for the ST was massively contrived so it could ape the Rebel/Empire dynamic as close as it possibly could. They couldn't even wait until the New Republic was destroyed to introduce a Resistance, so they just co-exist at the same time for some reason. Shame really. I would have liked to see an example of the New Republic in action.