Golden Globe Nominations

[The Senator]

It would. Because it WAS by far the most hyped movie of the year. On IMDb they have something called 'The Movie Meter' which shows the 10 most visited movie(and tv shows) pages on imdb of the week. These are mostly new movies or movies coming out in a week or 2. A half year before Heath died it was on this top 10 every week. Sometimes it was on the top actually. The first movie trailer(released before Heath's death) was one of the most viewed videos on Yutube of the month it was released.

Yeah, and I remember when Aliens vs. Predator 2 was at the top of the movie meter. Last time I checked, that didn't make a lot of money, did it?

Lets have a poll here. How many here saw it just because Heath died?

Probably no one, considering this is a comic book message board. Additionally, those who saw the movie liked it and probably won't want to admit that they saw it only because Ledger was in it (remember when JFK was assinated? 74% of the population claimed to have voted for him in 1960, even though 50% did in actuality). In retrospect, I probably should have lingered around the bat forums more and saved the posting history of all the skeptics who changed their mind about his performance as the Joker after his death. And there were a few who, within a few weeks at least, jumped on board the movie after having a record of opposing it for stupid reasons, such as a gay cowboy can't play teh jokerz and a teh jokerz don;t were make-up!1!1!!!

Ledger's demagoguery was evident a week after his death and to think that his death had no affect on its success is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Laderlappen]

'

Thats a flawed poll. You can't ask people on SUPERHEROHYPE if they were going to see the SUPERHERO movie of the year whether or not an actor died.

There is also a ridiculous percent of people on this board that saw Punisher War Zone for crying out loud.

Ok, everybody go ask all friends how many of them saw TDK just because Heath died.

The big reason your arguments fails is because no movie in history has made 200 million dollars because an actor died. Or 100. Or 50. You have nothing to base it on. What there is proof of, is movies with actors dying right before their death, still not being sucessful.

 

[BlackLantern]

I'm not talking about box office I'm talking about accolades....Ledger got a Golden Globe nomination and will proabably get an Oscar nod and his death is a contributing factor in that

 

[The Senator]

Again, I know exactly what the Insider Predictions were and there were going to be just as wrong with a live Heath than there were with a dead one. The Dark Knight had buzz before Heath's Ledger - greater buzz than Indiana Jones. Batman's movie franchise was more relevant, the film was better, the film appealed to a great demographic, the film had more memorable performances and instant Pop culture appeal (again, even without Ledger's death). Ledger's death did not contribute 300 Million Dollars in extra revenue.

It had more online buzz than Indiana Jones. The generation which really cared about the new Indiana Jones movie was the generation which grew up with the character almost thirty years ago. It didn't get the bulk of its buzz until a month or so before it was released. You can probably blame the lack of buzz for Indiana Jones on half-assed early marketing, too.

The Dark Knight was hyped beforehand because of forums like these which explicitly focuses on comic book related movies and has allowed this niche interest group to expand. Moreover, the trailer had intense word of mouth unlike any I had ever seen, so that helped as well. Could The Dark Knight have been the top movie of the year without Heath's death involved in the equation? More than likely. But I don't think it would have done much better than Indiana Jones in the end.

 

[The Senator]

I'm not talking about box office I'm talking about accolades....Ledger got a Golden Globe nomination and will proabably get an Oscar nod and his death is a contributing factor in that

That's true. The Golden Globes and the Oscars are known for handing out sympathy awards. I think Ledger deserves a nomination because his performance was great. But I don't necessarily know if he deserves a win for it. The only other performance which is gaining buzz in the Supporting Actor category-- as of now-- is Hoffman's role in Doubt. I've seen the play, and if Hoffman portrays the character in the film as he is portrayed in the play I saw, he should be Ledger's top competition.

Plus, the Academy doesn't do the same star-****ing as the Golden Globes... the awards attention Ledger receives in the months ahead, I think, will ultimately determine his fate at the Oscars-- just as it does with about every other award.

 

[The Senator]

Ok, everybody go ask all friends how many of them saw TDK just because Heath died.

The big reason your arguments fails is because no movie in history has made 200 million dollars because an actor died. Or 100. Or 50. You have nothing to base it on. What there is proof of, is movies with actors dying right before their death, still not being sucessful.

Again, people aren't going to say that they saw the film because Heath died because most people genuinely liked the movie. You obviously didn't read how this would compare to the Kennedy poll released after his assassination.

 

[Laderlappen]

Yeah, and I remember when Aliens vs. Predator 2 was at the top of the movie meter. Last time I checked, that didn't make a lot of money, did it?

Aliens vs. Predator 2 wasnt very good was it?

In retrospect, I probably should have lingered around the bat forums more and saved the posting history of all the skeptics who changed their mind about his performance as the Joker after his death. And there were a few who, within a few weeks at least, jumped on board the movie after having a record of opposing it for stupid reasons, such as a gay cowboy can't play teh jokerz and a teh jokerz don;t were make-up!1!1!!!

Actually that ALL stoped when the first trailer came out. You dont think people stop just becase he died do you? Do you think after watching his performance they still do that?

Ledger's demagoguery was evident a week after his death and to think that his death had no affect on its success is intellectually dishonest.

It did have an effect. About 2 million. But to say 1/3 of the people saw it without any interest of seeing the movie, just saw it because it had an actor that was dead in it is delusional. Do you really think 1/3 of the people went 'I have no interest in seeing this but will see it anyway because it has a dead person in it'?

 

[BlackLantern]

I saw TDK twice in the theaters and on both occasions I saw people walk out of the theater after Ledgers last scene....so some did, and I think the movie got more attention from the general public

 

[Laderlappen]

I'm not talking about box office I'm talking about accolades....Ledger got a Golden Globe nomination and will proabably get an Oscar nod and his death is a contributing factor in that

`Ledger would obviously be nominated. The globes even nominate RDJ so.

 

[The Senator]

Aliens vs. Predator 2 wasnt very good was it?

Oh, so that means it should have made $150 million in its opening weekend and then completely fallen off the radar, by your calculations, since it was number one on the Movie Meter.

Actually that ALL stoped when the first trailer came out. You dont think people stop just becase he died do you? Do you think after watching his performance they still do that?

I WAS HERE. I witnessed it.

I remember this very well, because a few weeks after he died, I discussed how Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain was overhyped and how the movie isn't as good as the Bat-fans were portraying it as. I was called a homophobic bigot by several posters because I felt that Jack Twist bordered on being an obsessive sexual predator during the Tent Scene. I was jumped on by posters who-- three weeks beforehand, after the trailer had been released-- were still complaining about how the Joker doesn't wear make-up and how he looked "gross."

If I had the patience to endure those boards again, I'd try to find these posters and relay to you their post history. However, I don't really want my brain to melt out of my ear today so that isn't going to happen.

It did have an effect. About 2 million. But to say 1/3 of the people saw it without any interest of seeing the movie, just saw it because it had an actor that was dead in it is delusional. Do you really think 1/3 of the people went 'I have no interest in seeing this but will see it anyway because it has a dead person in it'?

Do you really think stupid teenage girls who wear Paris Hilton's clothing line and worship Rihanna would have given two damns about The Dark Knight had that heartthrob Heath Ledger survived? I doubt it. I strongly doubt it.

They never entered films like Spider-Man and Iron Man. Very few did, if they did at all. I doubt they would have seen The Dark Knight without Heath's death hovering overhead.

 

[The Senator]

`Ledger would obviously be nominated. The globes even nominate RDJ so.

Because Robert Downey Jr. has had a fulfilling cinematic career and an excellent comeback in the past few years. Robert Downey Jr. was going to be nominated one way or another-- his nomination is due to sympathy, I'm sure.

 

[StorminNorman]

It had more online buzz than Indiana Jones. The generation which really cared about the new Indiana Jones movie was the generation which grew up with the character almost thirty years ago. It didn't get the bulk of its buzz until a month or so before it was released. You can probably blame the lack of buzz for Indiana Jones on half-assed early marketing, too.

And that same generation doesn't go to movies in the same numbers as the internet generation. Any successful movie has to win that internet movie demographic.

The Dark Knight was hyped beforehand because of forums like these which explicitly focuses on comic book related movies and has allowed this niche interest group to expand. Moreover, the trailer had intense word of mouth unlike any I had ever seen, so that helped as well. Could The Dark Knight have been the top movie of the year without Heath's death involved in the equation? More than likely. But I don't think it would have done much better than Indiana Jones in the end.

But the Dark Knight's pre-Ledger hype was great than simply this forum. Again, the whispers of Ledger's performance being something special did not start here, they came from Hollywood trades.

I mean all you have to do is look at Iron Man - that movie had far less going for it than a pre-death Dark Knight and it still made as much money as Indiana Jones.

Its impossible to get an answer to this "what if" but I am extremely confident in my stance on the matter. Box Office prognostication is one of my many hobbies.

 

[The Senator]

I mean all you have to do is look at Iron Man - that movie had far less going for it than a pre-death Dark Knight and it still made as much money as Indiana Jones.

Well, I would beg to differ that Iron Man was-- in many aspects-- a better film than The Dark Knight. I just watched The Dark Knight again and I must say, it drags a lot and has a few unnecessary elements to it (i.e. Gordon's death, the boat scene).

 

[EdRyder]

Again, people aren't going to say that they saw the film because Heath died because most people genuinely liked the movie. You obviously didn't read how this would compare to the Kennedy poll released after his assassination.

TDK's success has very little to do with Ledgers death.Teenagers are the new movie goer.It isn't debatable anymore.Films are scripted and shot aiming for that PG 13 rating.(Why a movie like Twilight made 70 million opening weekend)Somwhere in the past two years going to the movies became the new going to the mall for teenagers.I have two nieces in HS and thats all they'll dne of them saw TDK with friends in theaters 3 times.She saw everything this year.Kung Fu Panda,HS musical 3, Twilight, Wall E , Beverley hills Chihuahua, The list goes on and on.Point being, she sees a hell of a lot more movies than I ever did at that age or even the age I am now.And Im a movie buff for cripes sake!
I know for a fact her and her friends would much rather see other movies like QoS, but they arent admitted.So rather than not go at all they opt to see Beverley Hills Chihuahua or TDK a fourth time.Thats just what they do.

 

[StorminNorman]

Well, I would beg to differ that Iron Man was-- in many aspects-- a better film than The Dark Knight. I just watched The Dark Knight again and I must say, it drags a lot and has a few unnecessary elements to it (i.e. Gordon's death, the boat scene).

I could not disagree more vehemently. Iron Man is not a great film in any respect - the entire third act is a complete joke in no small part do to having one of the worst villains in any Superhero film.

Also the Boat Scene is in no way unnecessary, it is one of the most vital aspects of the entire film.

 

[The Senator]

I could not disagree more vehemently. Iron Man is not a great film in any respect - the entire third act is a complete joke in no small part do to having one of the worst villains in any Superhero film.

Speaking of which... I'm glad you brought up this point. Iron Man didn't have any major villains in it, yet it grossed over $300 million. Someone said earlier that the reason why Batman Begins was unsuccessful theatrically was due to its lack of major villains. Well... it looks like that theory goes out the window then...

 

[StorminNorman]

Speaking of which... I'm glad you brought up this point. Iron Man didn't have any major villains in it, yet it grossed over $300 million. Someone said earlier that the reason why Batman Begins was unsuccessful theatrically was due to its lack of major villains. Well... it looks like that theory goes out the window then...

Iron Man was the perfectly marketed film at the right time. A lot of its success can be credited to Transformers.

 

[Immortalfire]

I finally read over the whole list...it sucks to high heaven. No one has seen any of these movies

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

I finally read over the whole list...it sucks to high heaven. No one has seen any of these movies

I find it strange that Revolutionary Road is on the list when it has not been released yet

 

[Laderlappen]

I finally read over the whole list...it sucks to high heaven. No one has seen any of these movies

Thats because many of them arent out.

 

[souvlaki]

So, I assume you didn't see Batman Begins in theaters because Batman & Robin was awful?

That's the case for a lot of people. Batman Begins started off slow because of Batman & Robin. It had such long legs because it was a good film. Batman Begins had longer legs than just about any other superhero film of it's time. If you look at how much money it made opening weekend, it really shouldn't have done more than about $150million. The reason it did as well as it did was because it turned out to be a good film. As for Dark Knight's success, a lot of people that were hesitant to see Batman Begins were going to see Dark Knight regardless because Batman Begins turned out to be a damn good film, and the second movie had the Joker in it. Batman and the Joker alone, along with Christopher Nolan directing would have made the Dark Knight the biggest movie of the year, and possibly the biggest superhero movie ever. Would it have gone on to be the 2nd highest grossing film of all time? Doubtful, but I still think it would have made over $400 million.

 

[Captain Planet!]

Dead or not, Heath Ledger deserves the award because it was a great performance and The Dark Knight was a darn good movie. I wish people would get over the whole "He's only nominated 'cause he's dead" thing. Would he have gotten nominated if he hadn't died? Well, nobody will ever know, but I think he would have.

But regardless, what happened to him happened and people need to stop pondering "if he hadn't died".

 

[Laderlappen]

If he was alive, his chances would probably be bigger.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Dead or not, Heath Ledger deserves the award because it was a great performance and The Dark Knight was a darn good movie. I wish people would get over the whole "He's only nominated 'cause he's dead" thing. Would he have gotten nominated if he hadn't died? Well, nobody will ever know, but I think he would have.

But regardless, what happened to him happened and people need to stop pondering "if he hadn't died".

I agree. One thing that always blew my mind about the performance was, you couldn't get any sense of Heath in the role, like the Joker was a separate entity. Jack's Joker was great, but you could always see Jack in the role.

 

[The Senator]

I finally read over the whole list...it sucks to high heaven. No one has seen any of these movies

I have seen several of them