House of the Dragon House of the Dragon General Discussion Thread (TAG SPOILERS)

[Sithborg]

Talk of why woman aren't leaders leading to sudden onset murder madness.

 

[Marvolo]

Talk of why woman aren't leaders leading to sudden onset murder madness.

It's not sexist to show a woman losing her mind because of witnessing the murder of her closest friend.

And Westeros is a medieval patriarchal society. It would have been completely inappropriate for Westeros's male leaders to not question her suitability. Like it was inappropriate for Sam to propose democracy.

Edit: Just to clarify, I do think that Dany didn't need to go mad to explain why King's Landing was destroyed. Dany lives in a medieval society and she would have been justified razing King's Landing to the ground purely on tactical grounds. D&D should not have been trying to inject 21st century morals and rules of war into GOT. It ruined Tyrion's character and did Dany no favors.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Looks too much like a repeat of GOT and Danny's story.

There's a lot of 'been there, done that' shown. Way too familiar in general. I wasn't interested before and this showing did nothing to justify a prequel.

 

[rebellion]

Its a different story thats only similar to some aspects of GoT on a surface level. They have to appeal to general audiences with this trailer and i guess they did, judging by the response.

 

[#root]

It looks to be an odd combination of a familiar story with an unfamiliar storytelling technique. I don’t know but it feels more ‘blockbustery’ than what Game of Thrones started as. Maybe that’s just the trailer though.

Edit:

The season opens with its female leads as teens (played by Emily Carey and Milly Alcock). Midway through the season, the story jumps 10 years and the roles are taken over by Olivia Cooke (Ready Player One) and Emma D’Arcy (Truth Seekers). The show’s two male leads are older and played by the same actors throughout. There are additional multiyear time jumps within the 10-episode season as well — a structure more like the way The Crown unfolds over the course of its entire run than like Thrones.

Ohh. Yeah that would explain the different vibe of this show. And that Bloodmoon pilot sounds interesting. Too bad Martin wasn’t too confident crafting that story.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Its a different story thats only similar to some aspects of GoT on a surface level. They have to appeal to general audiences with this trailer and i guess they did, judging by the response.

Yeah, I don't see the comparisons. No one questioned Dany's claim because of her gender until, like, the third-to-last episode. Gender and succession politics weren't remotely a major plotline in GOT.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, I don't see the comparisons. No one questioned Dany's claim because of her gender until, like, the third-to-last episode. Gender and succession politics weren't remotely a major plotline in GOT.

Not accurate. All the apparent heirs are men, even when the women are the better options. With Dany, her gender is brought up throughout the series, as with Cersei. When Robb dies, it's Bran who is the next in line, not Sansa. Women are constantly married off for these goals.

Let's look at Dany's arc. She's married off by her future king brother, to be the brood mare for Drogo. When they both die, she's left alone, with no one to lead. Because she's a woman.

The next three seasons, she's underestimated as a small woman incapable of leading/fighting, and even has to buy her army because she can't win one. Unlike say Jon, she's given two men to protect her "frail" form.

Season 5 sees her as a person to be married off by her enemies, who constantly run her over.

Season 6, she's literally left to a group of men do to her original marriage to Drogo, in arguably the most sexist custom across the ocean.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Not quite accurate. All the apparent heirs are men, even when the women are the better options. With Dany, her gender is brought up throughout the series, as with Cersei. When Robb dies, it's Bran who is the next in line, not Sansa. Women are constantly married off for these goals.

Okay, I get that. That's inherent to the world. It just seemed like people were saying that Dany and Rhaenyra have the same story, which I don't really see.

 

[Sithborg]

It's not sexist to show a woman losing her mind because of witnessing the murder of her closest friend.

And Westeros is a medieval patriarchal society. It would have been completely inappropriate for Westeros's male leaders to not question her suitability. Like it was inappropriate for Sam to propose democracy.

Edit: Just to clarify, I do think that Dany didn't need to go mad to explain why King's Landing was destroyed. Dany lives in a medieval society and she would have been justified razing King's Landing to the ground purely on tactical grounds. D&D should not have been trying to inject 21st century morals and rules of war into GOT. It ruined Tyrion's character and did Dany no favors.

Make no mistake, they had set up her doing this for years in the previous seasons.

How they actually did it was "Dragon lady bad".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Okay, I get that. That's inherent to the world. It just seemed like people were saying that Dany and Rhaenyra have the same story, which I don't really see.

They will have similar stories. Because there is only so many ways you can tell the "woman hear me roar" story, when the protagonist is the blonde lady with dragons. I'm not complaining, but they picked this story because it's similar to arguably the most popular aspect of the original show. The one that led to a lot of parents regretting the naming of their daughters.

 

[CaptainWagner]

They will have similar stories. Because there is only so many ways you can tell the "woman hear me roar" story, when the protagonist is the blonde lady with dragons. I'm not complaining, but they picked this story because it's similar to arguably the most popular aspect of the original show. The one that lead to a lot of parents regretting the naming of their daughters.

Fair point

Hopefully any new parent fans will have learned their lesson this time around and take advantage of having the whole story available to them. Stick to Baelas, Rhaenas, Alysannes and Sabithas

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Make no mistake, they had set up her doing this for years in the previous seasons.

How they actually did it was "Dragon lady bad".

As one who was 100% pro Mad Queen for well over a decade, I'm still shocked at how badly they actually did it. They don't like me!!! TIME TO CARRIE!!!!

 

[Sithborg]

As one who was 100% pro Mad Queen for well over a decade, I'm still shocked at how badly they actually did it. They don't like me!!! TIME TO CARRIE!!!!

Frankly, after everything else in that season before, it didn't surprise me. The dumb dumb bat was swinging freely.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Frankly, after everything else in that season before, it didn't surprise me. The dumb dumb bat was swinging freely.

Oh, after the long night, I knew we were ****ed. I rather enjoyed the first two episodes, and then they hit the fast forward button with an extra side of extremely stupid. I still have the two part series finale of The Battle of the Bastards and the Winds of Winter.

 

[Protagonist]

Make no mistake, they had set up her doing this for years in the previous seasons.

How they actually did it was "Dragon lady bad".

Actually you could say that about half of the characters in GoT. My problem is more about the fact that Dany was surrounded by fools, especially Tyrion is overrated, given the fact that he made one mistake after the other one since season 2, Dany should have sticked with Jorah as right hand.

 

[Snow Queen]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

On second thought, maybe I won't watch this show...



Weird how they "want to get real", and it's we need to rape a bunch of women and turn childbirth into some sort of battlefield. Not ****ed up teeth, no makeup, everyone being shorter then modern times, etc. Yeah, it's pretty clear they get off on it more then anything.

 

[Iceman]

I don’t get why it’s so important to them to play this aspect up. This is not how to get viewers back. My interest just reduced further.

 

[Weather Witch]

I mean this was a recurring theme throughout the original show. I don't see why it's suddenly a reason for people not to watch.

 

[godisawesome]

I don’t get why it’s so important to them to play this aspect up. This is not how to get viewers back. My interest just reduced further.

I mean this was a recurring theme throughout the original show. I don't see why it's suddenly a reason for people not to watch.

I’m a dude, so I can’t pretend I have an immediately applicable viewpoint here, but…

I think the “trick” here is how are they using and addressing the sexism of the show’s setting, and what their end goal is. Is it just a bit if exploitation they enjoy? Is it something they want to smartly deconstruct and disprove in a clever way? Or is it something in between, which is arguably still a flawed perspective to have?

There were times where GoT seemed to slide into exploitation without much dramatic payoff outside of that, sometimes even in comparison to the books, which could already be a bit problematic (see: Book!Cersei vs Show!Cersei.)

Rhaenyra herself offers an interesting scenario to see how they handle that; Alicent is an old-school, “use the sexism in the system to your advantage” kind of powerful woman who uses misogyny as a tool, but Rhaenyra is having to oppose misogyny for her rule. There’s a storyline here that’s *going* to comment on sexism is a pseudo-past and still be applicable to modern day audiences, whether the creators want to or not, a bit like The Last Duel.

And like The Last Duel, every little decision they make can have ramifications for the better or worse.

 

[Albright]

I‘ll watch it (because I don’t want to miss something), but this would‘ve been more appealing to me, if it was set in ancient Valyria (as rumored years ago)

 

[Weather Witch]

I’m a dude, so I can’t pretend I have an immediately applicable viewpoint here, but…

I think the “trick” here is how are they using and addressing the sexism of the show’s setting, and what their end goal is. Is it just a bit if exploitation they enjoy? Is it something they want to smartly deconstruct and disprove in a clever way? Or is it something in between, which is arguably still a flawed perspective to have?

There were times where GoT seemed to slide into exploitation without much dramatic payoff outside of that, sometimes even in comparison to the books, which could already be a bit problematic (see: Book!Cersei vs Show!Cersei.)

Rhaenyra herself offers an interesting scenario to see how they handle that; Alicent is an old-school, “use the sexism in the system to your advantage” kind of powerful woman who uses misogyny as a tool, but Rhaenyra is having to oppose misogyny for her rule. There’s a storyline here that’s *going* to comment on sexism is a pseudo-past and still be applicable to modern day audiences, whether the creators want to or not, a bit like The Last Duel.

And like The Last Duel, every little decision they make can have ramifications for the better or worse.

Definitely fair, and I agree with most of that, but it's also way too early to judge because we haven't actually seen the show yet. It feels to me like people have already decided how they think the show is going to tackle these things. That kinda attitude is bound to make people angry for the sake of being angry.

 

[Sawyer]

Am I crazy or is Olivia Cooke is starting to age into being Kate Winslet?

Not the hair so much, but everything else.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Marvolo]

On second thought, maybe I won't watch this show...



Weird how they "want to get real", and it's we need to rape a bunch of women and turn childbirth into some sort of battlefield. Not ****ed up teeth, no makeup, everyone being shorter then modern times, etc. Yeah, it's pretty clear they get off on it more then anything.

The infant mortality rate in the middle ages was 20% - 30%. About 200 - 300 per 1000 births.

In the Middle Ages there was no such thing as childhood

At some points in the middle ages it did go as high as 50%

Genealogy: Ancestors plagued by high rates of infant mortality

The maternal mortality rate in England was 1 out of 20 women died in childbirth.

Reconsidering maternal mortality in medieval England: aristocratic Englishwomen, c. 1236–1503 | Continuity and Change | Cambridge Core

Between those two issues that would be a huge mental and mortal gamble for women. And to put it in the context of the show think about how many women are probably in the Targaryan royal court. If even 1% of them die that's going to be multiple women dying. If 50% of them are having children die during birth that's a lot of women dealing with a lot of emotional trauma in a society that doesnt have therapy or psychology or medications for depression.

People have used makeup for thousands of years. Dental hygiene isn't anything modern either. The Roman's used sticks and powders to clean their teeth.

Sexual violence was a part of medieval life and its absolutely a part of Martin's world. Sexual assault plotlines and incidents are as valid in this story as they are in any modern drama.