Official UFC Thread - Part 7

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]482369[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]453397[/split]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It probably could, there will be a lot of money in a rematch for Rousey with Holm, in fact from a business perspective it probably makes sense to have Rousey fight Holm, then whoever wins will get a rematch with Tate.

Miesha winning was probably the best thing that could have happened in the UFC's eyes.

Rousey looking shook is not good for the UFC, but they'd rather have Rousey v. Holm 2 for the belt. If Rousey loses to Meisha it is over for her. So it is risky if she really doesn't have her head in the game, because Meisha is always game.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I agree Rousey should fight Holm first, but it won't happen. Tate needs to think about what she has done in the past. I truly think she could beat Rousey with the right gameplan.

She should fight Holm first. UFC's biggest cash would come from Holms/Rousey and McGregor/Aldo at 200.

 

[jmc]

It probably could, there will be a lot of money in a rematch for Rousey with Holm, in fact from a business perspective it probably makes sense to have Rousey fight Holm, then whoever wins will get a rematch with Tate.

Miesha winning was probably the best thing that could have happened in the UFC's eyes.

I would have thought from a business perspective it was a disaster, because now Holm is just as deserving to get a shot at winning back the belt as Ronda is. That's if she comes back, I'm not convinced Rousey's head is in the right place any more with this sport given she's doing a bunch of movies in between fights.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

She should fight Holm first. UFC's biggest cash would come from Holms/Rousey and McGregor/Aldo at 200.

The only reason Conor fights Aldo at 200 is because they are afraid he would lose to Frankie, which they probably are.

 

[TheVileOne]

UFC 196 is proof that styles make fights.

MMA math doesn't always work. That's why Miesha Tate is champion.

 

[B]

UFC 196 is proof that styles make fights.

MMA math doesn't always work. That's why Miesha Tate is champion.

MMA Math never works, it's the styles, strengths & weaknesses that matter.

 

[B]

I would have thought from a business perspective it was a disaster, because now Holm is just as deserving to get a shot at winning back the belt as Ronda is. That's if she comes back, I'm not convinced Rousey's head is in the right place any more with this sport given she's doing a bunch of movies in between fights.

This is exactly why Holm & Rousey should rematch, neither are actually deserving of an immediate rematch. Rousey was comfortably beaten by Holm & there was nothing controversial about Tate's victory over Holm.

 

[B]

Just reading Twitter Jose Aldo is lobbying for a rematch with McGregor at UFC 200... I am going to be super pissed if Aldo gets a shot ahead of Edgar.

He got KO'd in 13 seconds, I'm sorry whether you think it was a fluke or not you can't get KO'd that badly then get an immediate rematch barring someone pulling out.

Edgar has went through the entire division, he's beaten everybody in the way, he rightfully should get the next shot & Aldo should fight Chad Mendes or even Max Holloway who's been on a run.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Edgar deserves the fight, and I say he wins the fight if it happens.

Rousey suddenly wants to fight again, but probably Meisha and not Holly. What a horrible person Rousey is.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

One funny thing about tonight. People are already using the two weightclass excuse. Nate fights at 155. He had no camp. Conor is massive at 145. Look at the weight he cuts.

 

[B]

Edgar deserves the fight, and I say he wins the fight if it happens.

Edgar is a horrific matchup for Conor, he's a good wrestler, extremely good cardio, extremely good footwork & head movement.. also since Edgar dropped from LW his punches pack more punch.

That being said, Conor is unpredictable (& usually) very accurate with his striking which may trouble Edgar's attacks.

They better not make an Aldo rematch, the Edgar/McGregor fight makes more sense & I think would be the better contest.

One funny thing about tonight. People are already using the two weightclass excuse. Nate fights at 155. He had no camp. Conor is massive at 145. Look at the weight he cuts.

The only effect the lack of a camp had on Nate was his presumably lack of sparring. He was training for a triathlon while Conor was in camp for RDA so if he wasn't in shape & he was training for a triathlon there's something wrong. Nate commented a few times in the build up to the fight about his lack of a camp as if he was throwing the excuse out there before the fight even happened, but it was all ********, Nate was in shape, Conor was in shape neither of them had anytime to prep for one another so it was a fair fight as far as the conditioning aspect is concerned.

As for the weight classes regardless of what weight class they fight at, Diaz is the bigger man. McGregor walks around at 165lbs-170lbs & Diaz walks around at 170lbs-180lbs. Don't know why people are making excuses for McGregor regarding weight, he said in the run up to fight that weight doesn't & shouldn't matter & he even said it in the post-fight press conference after losing. On fight night both of them probably weighed exactly what they did yesterday as neither of them needed to cut any weight to make 170lbs as Nate was in shape & McGregor is naturally around that weight before he makes a cut.

 

[TheVileOne]

Rousey vs. Tate III, this time Tate has the belt. LOL, this is hilarious!

 

[TheVileOne]

How the heck can McGregor make 145 pounds again? I don't think it's possible.

 

[jmc]

This is exactly why Holm & Rousey should rematch, neither are actually deserving of an immediate rematch. Rousey was comfortably beaten by Holm & there was nothing controversial about Tate's victory over Holm.

I agree with that, the question is what will UFC do. They want Ronda to own the belt, that's for certain, but now Meisha has thrown a spanner in the work. IMO Ronda doesn't deserve a shot at Meisha immediately, I don't care what she says the only way she's truly deserving of that belt again is to go through Holm. Circumventing that is going to come across as cowardly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Edgar is a horrific matchup for Conor, he's a good wrestler, extremely good cardio, extremely good footwork & head movement.. also since Edgar dropped from LW his punches pack more punch.

That being said, Conor is unpredictable (& usually) very accurate with his striking which may trouble Edgar's attacks.

They better not make an Aldo rematch, the Edgar/McGregor fight makes more sense & I think would be the better contest.

I feel like the Mendes fight is a good example of how it would go. Mendes had Conor, but gassed do to a lack of camp. Edgar is a better Mendes use to fighting much bigger guys.

The only effect the lack of a camp had on Nate was his presumably lack of sparring. He was training for a triathlon while Conor was in camp for RDA so if he wasn't in shape & he was training for a triathlon there's something wrong. Nate commented a few times in the build up to the fight about his lack of a camp as if he was throwing the excuse out there before the fight even happened, but it was all ********, Nate was in shape, Conor was in shape neither of them had anytime to prep for one another so it was a fair fight as far as the conditioning aspect is concerned.

As for the weight classes regardless of what weight class they fight at, Diaz is the bigger man. McGregor walks around at 165lbs-170lbs & Diaz walks around at 170lbs-180lbs. Don't know why people are making excuses for McGregor regarding weight, he said in the run up to fight that weight doesn't & shouldn't matter & he even said it in the post-fight press conference after losing. On fight night both of them probably weighed exactly what they did yesterday as neither of them needed to cut any weight to make 170lbs as Nate was in shape & McGregor is naturally around that weight before he makes a cut.

Training for a Triathlon is very different from training for a fight. It is a different kind of endurance, calling on different muscles screaming for oxygen. Just cause a guy plays in the NFL doesn't mean he has the cardio for fighting, for example. Also a 10 day camp is so different, because you can't build up that natural endurance because you can't go hard that close to a fight. Nate gassed. He wasn't in shape, and he still won.

Not sure what you mean about Conor not using weight as excuse. He couldn't stop bringing it up at the post-fight and basically pointed at it for why he lost.

 

[Batmannerism]

Gotta say, Holm going down to Tate seems to indicate that Holm's victory over Rousey had more to do with Ronda having an off night, than Holm's greatness (much like GSP v Serra 1). Freely admit I'm biased.


I mean Ronda has submitted Tate twice, and I have no doubt could do so again.

Would love to see Ronda smash Tate (got nothing against Cupcake, and I don't disrespect her skills, but don't think she can beat Ronda) regain the belt and then defend it against Holm - who deserves another shot.

Either way, congratulations to Tate on a well-deserved victory.

 

[jmc]

I don't buy that. Ronda was completely outclassed and outsmarted. Regardless, Dana White has just confirmed Ronda will fight Tate next. Apparently Ronda was very enthusiastic.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How the heck can McGregor make 145 pounds again? I don't think it's possible.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't buy that. Ronda was completely outclassed and outsmarted. Regardless, Dana White has just confirmed Ronda will fight Tate next. Apparently Ronda was very enthusiastic.

She is an embarrassing human being. So clearly afraid of Holm. I hope Meisha gets her standing. That would be so hilarious.

 

[Batmannerism]

I don't buy that. Ronda was completely outclassed and outsmarted. Regardless, Dana White has just confirmed Ronda will fight Tate next. Apparently Ronda was very enthusiastic.

Okay. In that fight I totally agree Ronda performed very poorly and/or fought stupidly, which happens to everyone ( I'm sure Anderson Silva is thinking the same thing right now). Maybe she believed her own hype, but she certainly didn't take Holm seriously and thus didn't develop a gameplan to deal with her superior reach and striking. Did she deserve to lose, hell yes (and I'm an RR fan).

However, the amount of hate that came out for RR after that loss surprised me.
People can criticize her public persona, and fair enough. But I have a problem with folks disrespecting her skills and fighting prowess based on one crappy performance ( folks still rate Silva as GOAT and he's had 3 really **** fights )

Given Ronda's demolition of her previous opponents -which includes 2 submission victories over Tate, I feel it's more than unfair to conclude she's either no good in stand-up or just no good at all.
- it's like those 12 wins, including 6 title defences didn't happen. Ronda didn't win those by luck, she demolished those opponents, a bunch of them in less than a minute.

I mean, if Ronda ain't no good at stand-up, then she should have lost to Tate, twice.....but that didn't happen !

People may not like Ronda (although we don't know what the real Ronda is like, so who knows) or at least not like her public persona.

I'm a fan, but I still think she has been a bit graceless in the face of defeat - whereas my favourite fighter of all time, GSP was classy when defeated by Serra - I wish Ronda had taken a page from his book.

I can totally understand the "we hate Ronda" bandwagon, based on how she comes across - and who knows, she might actually be a nasty human being. But, the "Ronda is no good" bandwagon is just ridiculous.

This is what I mean.

She is an embarrassing human being. So clearly afraid of Holm. I hope Meisha gets her standing. That would be so hilarious

Totally get that you don't like her as a person, and that's your opinion fair enough. But seriously, I don't think Tate was laughing either time she nearly left the ring with one less-functional arm.

I guess my point is, you can slag off Ronda as a person, but as a fighter her record speaks for itself - and is worthy of some respect.

Anyway, we'll see what she's really made of this year - as GSP (yes, I know I go on and on about GSP) cites the loss to Serra as a turning point (for the better) in his career. If the haters turn out to be right, I'll eat my words, but I think Ronda has got what it takes to get back in the ring and both regain and defend the belt.

On a different note, way to go Nate Diaz, the guy has had a lot of ups and downs but this win will no doubt be the highlight of his career !

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You keep up bringing up GSP, without actually examining why he lost and the personalities of either person. GSP lost, he threw away his party lifestyle and focused on one thing, fighting. He might as well have drawn a picture of Serra and the belt on his eyelids because it was all he thought about. Rousey lost, she disappeared until she came out looking for sympathy talking about having babies with her women beating boyfriend.

GSP got caught in the back of the head, by an awkward fighter do to his size. Rousey got repeatedly beat up, while Holm stood up twice on her. Rousey got her face pushed in and could not handle it. I don't like Conor, but I acknowledge his skills as a striker. He can fight. Rousey is good in a sport in its infancy. Male MMA is still in its early stages, but Female MMA is light years behind it. This is like early 2000s UFC quality. She isn't a Fedor or Jon Jones who 20 years we will think, "yeah, they could probably compete today". She isn't even a GSP who is all hard work, or BJ Penn, a slacker genius. Her game is too one skill based. Her striking is bad, the problem is the majority of female MMA can't take advantage of that, the same way you couldn't take advantage of that against a Royce Gracie years ago. It is like suggesting Royce, who I love, is an all time great fighter. He clearly isn't. He didn't have the competition.

And who exactly cares if she wins the belt? We all know what we want to see, her fighting Holm. When GSP lost he wanted right back in the octagon with Serra. He wanted revenge and he chased it until he finally got it. Rousey decided she didn't want to fight again until the end of the year because she is afraid of Holly. I repeat. She is afraid of Holly Holm. Holly talked about wanting to fight Meisha again as soon as possible, while Rousey literally ran away deciding it was time to make a bunch of movies. Now Meisha has the belt back and now she wants to fight again. So obvious. It is exactly why she won't fight Cyborg. She fears her.

By the way, in their second fight Meisha was doing well standing but kept on looking for a takedown for reasons I do not understand. I doubt she tries that again. If she hits Rousey and hurts her, we all now know how Rousey reacts. Poorly.

 

[jmc]

I think Holm has the perfect counter style to Ronda who just wants to charge forward. Ronda wants to finish the fight as quick as possible. Meisha has far more restraint. I think the reason why she got the better of Tate twice was because Meisha got suckered into playing a game that favoured Ronda. I'd say Holm is the best thing to have happened to Tate, because she now has a blueprint for beating Rousey. She's obviously not as accomplished a striker, but she can certainly employ similar tactics, she is the only other fighter to take Ronda beyond the first round.

In terms of backlash, yes it went over the top, but Ronda brought that on herself. The thing is you don't need to cause drama in order to build a fight, you don't need to make yourself the bad guy. Sometimes being good at what you do is enough for people to like you. Look at how both girls carried themselves today with this fight, nothing but pure class and sportsmanship from both of them throughout the lead up. No arrogance, no animosity, nothing but respect from both camps. Regardless of who won and who lost both walked away with dignity and will be applauded for not just the match but for their attitude. Competitive, tough, and one of the best women's fights UFC have had. Ronda should learn that being humble earns you far more supporters, something as simple as touching gloves, which Tate and Holm did at the start of the fifth round, says a lot about ones character.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Holm has the perfect counter style to Ronda who just wants to charge forward. Ronda wants to finish the fight as quick as possible. Meisha has far more restraint. I think the reason why she got the better of Tate twice was because Meisha got suckered into playing a game that favoured Ronda. I'd say Holm is the best thing to have happened to Tate, because she now has a blueprint for beating Rousey. She's obviously not as accomplished a striker, but she can certainly employ similar tactics, she is the only other fighter to take Ronda beyond the first round.

In terms of backlash, yes it went over the top, but Ronda brought that on herself. The thing is you don't need to cause drama in order to build a fight, you don't need to make yourself the bad guy. Sometimes being good at what you do is enough for people to like you. Look at how both girls carried themselves today with this fight, nothing but pure class and sportsmanship from both of them throughout the lead up. No arrogance, no animosity, nothing but respect from both camps. Regardless of who won and who lost both walked away with dignity and will be applauded for not just the match but for their attitude. Competitive, tough, and one of the best women's fights UFC have had. Ronda should learn that being humble earns you far more supporters, something as simple as touching gloves, which Tate and Holm did at the start of the fifth round, says a lot about ones character.

Meisha's best skill is her ground game, and she and her team decided that was the best course of action in a fight with Rousey. Last night was a good example of how Meisha cannot attack Rousey in another fight. She'd need to keep distance and circle. Frustrate Rousey forcing her to rush. Too many decide that rushing into Rousey is a good idea. Clearly, it isn't.

Ronda is a classic hypocrite, that is a big part of her problem. The woman who claims that the interview is a place for evil bullies who went on an internet rampage of Holm before their fight. Yeah, because that clearly doesn't apply to you Ronda.