Part VI (Spoiler Thread)

[henzINNIT]

Obi-Wan secretly wanted Luke to redeem Vader, but he was using the wise old sage technique of telling Luke the exact opposite of what you'd say if you felt that way. It's a lesser known form of Jedi mind trick, called reverse psychology.

But this is Obi-Wan we're talking about here. The guy who will give an awkward speech about 'points of view' instead of just copping to an obvious and understandble lie. Damn y'all for making me revisit one of the lamest scenes in the OT.

Didn't Obi-Wan get knighted after killing Darth Maul? Seems weird to give a promotion to someone after breaking the well-known 'no kill' rule.

 

[Johnny Richards]

Obi-Wan secretly wanted Luke to redeem Vader, but he was using the wise old sage technique of telling Luke the exact opposite of what you'd say if you felt that way. It's a lesser known form of Jedi mind trick, called reverse psychology.

Precisely. Bravo.

 

[henzINNIT]

Precisely. Bravo.

I really need to label my sarcasm online.

 

[Brother Jack]

Now that it's all said and done (at least this season lol) I feel fine calling this show a disappointment. Frustratingly mediocre with some sporadic moments of brilliance sprinkled in. It felt cheap aesthetically in its art direction and score and McGregor and the rest of the cast could not redeem that much contrived writing. This did not need to be a six-episode series. Whittle down and refine the script into something less bloated and superfluous and you could've had a tight two-hour character study out of this. I am at a loss for what a second season of this would be and I honestly hope it doesn't happen.

 

[henzINNIT]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I really need to label my sarcasm online.

Nah.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wish Pablo Hidalgo would come in here so DarthSkywalker's head can explode lol

Obi-Wan: "Luke, you MUST decapitate your father just like in that cave vision you had."

Yoda: "Don't listen to him, Luke. Insane this Force Ghost has become."

So, you going to discuss the topic or just continue to insult me?

Precisely. Bravo.

You do realize, if it's reverse pyschology, he is telling him to kill him right? He just wants Luke to do the opposite. But he's telling Luke to kill Vader.

 

[Bobber]

I really need to label my sarcasm online.

Bravo.

 

[Karelia]

Man that Vader & Kenobi scene was incredible. When he says "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker... I did." was so good, and also helps explain why Kenobi would tell Luke that in A New Hope.

I still think this would have actually worked much better as a movie. With better writers...

It definitely has great/epic moments. Hayden & Ewan are amazing, little Leia was adorable... but there was so much unnecessary and kinda ridiculous/stupid things that happened in this show... What was with the lack of the classic Star Wars score? That is such an important piece of what makes Star Wars special. The Mandalorian does something unique that still works, but the score in Kenobi mostly falls flat.

I still can't get over that chick hitting a stormtrooper on his helmet and he falls down lol. Such weird things they let fly.

 

[Marvolo]

About Reva, she went after Luke because she failed to kill Vader. Her life had been upended a second time, and she was having an emotional breakdown. So she was grasping at straws. She tells Owen she came for justice. In her emotionally distraught mind she wanted to kill Luke in the hope it would hurt Vader just like him killing the younglings hurt her. Its not meant to be rational, because at that moment she isn't thinking rationally. She comes to her senses in the desert and spares Luke and breaksdown completely in front of Obi.

Reva is meant to be pitiful in this episode. Not a monster or even a villain. An abused and broken person desperate for "justice" and a purpose.

 

[Johnny Richards]

So, you going to discuss the topic or just continue to insult me?

Obi-Wan: "Luke, your father is very strong. You need to make sure you fully separate his head from his body. Think Highlander. Cut it off."

Yoda: "Against this absurd nonsense, I am, young Skywalker."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Obi-Wan: "Luke, your father is very strong. You need to make sure you fully separate his head from his body. Think Highlander. Cut it off."

Yoda: "Against this absurd nonsense, I am, young Skywalker.

What does Obi-Wan's and Luke's dialogue in that scene mean if Obi-Wan isn't telling Luke he needs to kill Vader?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

About Reva, she went after Luke because she failed to kill Vader. Her life had been upended a second time, and she was having an emotional breakdown. So she was grasping at straws. She tells Owen she came for justice. In her emotionally distraught mind she wanted to kill Luke in the hope it would hurt Vader just like him killing the younglings hurt her. Its not meant to be rational, because at that moment she isn't thinking rationally. She comes to her senses in the desert and spares Luke and breaksdown completely in front of Obi.

Reva is meant to be pitiful in this episode. Not a monster or even a villain. An abused and broken person desperate for "justice" and a purpose.

Yeah. She was trying to get payback by killing Anakin's kid.

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah I had no beef with the handling of Reva in these last couple eps. Her actions made sense… from a certain point of view.

 

[Bobber]

What does Obi-Wan's and Luke's dialogue in that scene mean if Obi-Wan isn't telling Luke he needs to kill Vader?

I think it's better to just leave it. We've entered "I know you are, but what am I?" levels of petulance.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah I had no beef with the handling of Reva in these last couple eps. Her actions made sense… from a certain point of view.

And by a "certain point of view" someone who had given into the dark side. It's like one of those stories about a cop who goes undercover, and ends up turning into those he's suppose to be watching.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think it's better to just leave it. We've entered "I know you are, but what am I?" levels of petulance.

I'm not doing that. I'm asking you what the dialogue means.

Luke tells Obi-Wan he can't kill his father, acknowledging that as Obi-Wan's request. Obi-Wan never denies this, instead he states that the Emperor has already won, if Luke isn't willing to kill Vader.

If Obi-Wan wasn't asking Luke to kill Vader, why didn't he tell him that?

 

[Bobber]

I'm not doing that. I'm asking you what the dialogue means.

Luke tells Obi-Wan he can't kill his father, acknowledging that as Obi-Wan's request. Obi-Wan never denies this, instead he states that the Emperor has already won, if Luke isn't willing to kill Vader.

If Obi-Wan wasn't asking Luke to kill Vader, why didn't he tell him that?

You're asking me?... Obi-Wan tells Luke to kill Vader...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're asking me?... Obi-Wan tells Luke to kill Vader...

Sorry. Read the wrong user name.

 

[Johnny Richards]

You're asking me?... Obi-Wan tells Luke to kill Vader...

Obi-Wan: "Kill him, Luke. Kill him now. DO IT!!!"

#TheJediWay

 

[moviefreak]

I read that someone said that 'The Return of the Jedi' refers to Vader returning to Anakin and someone else said that it's a dual concept for both Vader/Anakin and Luke re-establishing Jedi.

I had a vague memory that Lucas originally intended it to be the 'revenge of the Jedi', which upon looking on google turned out to be true:

Now this could easily be summarised as Yoda, Force ghost Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke taking the revenge against the Sith.

I knew that Lucas loves his Jar-Jar too much...lmao

Here's the opening treatment for the Empire Strikes Back...matched almost exactly as in the film:

 

[Johnny Richards]

I read that someone said that 'The Return of the Jedi' refers to Vader returning to Anakin and someone else said that it's a dual concept for both Vader/Anakin and Luke re-establishing Jedi.

I had a vague memory that Lucas originally intended it to be the 'revenge of the Jedi', which upon looking on google turned out to be true:

Now this could easily be summarised as Yoda, Force ghost Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke taking the revenge against the Sith.

I knew that Lucas loves his Jar-Jar too much...lmao

Here's the opening treatment for the Empire Strikes Back...matched almost exactly as in the film:

Yep. Lucas changed the name to RETURN because Jedi don't take revenge. Jedi don't kill. He slowly developed the Jedi code until they became less Knights Templar and more Buddhist Monks.

 

[Another_Fool]

I'd say it's a shame this wasn't left as a movie but likely if they went ahead with the film, Vader probably isn't the villain since the decision was made after it was decided to be a Disney+ show, and frankly the best parts are Vader and Obi-Wan.

I'm really curious what the original film script looked like.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yep. Lucas changed the name to RETURN because Jedi don't take revenge. Jedi don't kill. He slowly developed the Jedi code until they became less Knights Templar and more Buddhist Monks.

They do kill. Often.

This is factually incorrect. And yet, you keep saying it. Why?





"Jabba, this is your last chance. Join us, or die."



How much Star Wars have you actually watched?

 

[Gaultheria]

I'm not doing that. I'm asking you what the dialogue means.

Luke tells Obi-Wan he can't kill his father, acknowledging that as Obi-Wan's request. Obi-Wan never denies this, instead he states that the Emperor has already won, if Luke isn't willing to kill Vader.

If Obi-Wan wasn't asking Luke to kill Vader, why didn't he tell him that?

When Obi-Wan says that Luke must face Darth Vader again, Obi-Wan doesn't mention killing. I think this isn't even about stopping or redeeming Vader/Anakin, it's about how Luke's experience on Cloud City will make him ineffective as a Jedi if he doesn't confront the source of his pain and fear.

Obi-Wan knows how dangerous it is to be anywhere near Vader, and that Luke must be ready to fight and kill Vader even though Vader's death isn't the goal of the confrontation. The conversation could have gone something like this:

Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again, or your fear of him will always hold you back from connecting with the Force.

Luke: Okay.

Obi-Wan: Great!

Luke: But I can't kill my own father. I'll talk to him instead.

Obi-Wan: Try that, but be ready to defend yourself. He'll probably try to kill you or corrupt you.

Luke: No! He'll come around. I believe there is goodness in him.

Obi-Wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You won't live to restart the Jedi, and you were our only hope.