Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

[Kane52630]

Preview
[YT]NNY73_YcZVY[/YT]​

 

[CB Fan]

Looking good. Drogon perched on that hill was beautiful.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

Im liking how Tyrion starts to get concerned about Dany's "you join me or Il toast you" way.

 

[Schlosser85]

Are they starting to sow more doubts about Daenerys' temperament even while obviously setting up she and Jon?

 

[CB Fan]

I don't know what they're trying to do but if that's not the intention they need to dial it back and Clarke needs to soften up some. I don't mind her being stern or even a bit stubborn but I need to see that there's still an actual human there. Though we did get to see a glimpse of her softer side when she was having girl talk with Missandei and with Jon in the cave.

 

[DACrowe]

I think they do want viewers to stay on their toes until the end. If they actually confirm something, I tend to take it that it is not their intention or at least the ending. For example, they made a big spiel about Jon vs. Sansa that a lot of people bought into. We're now over halfway through season 7 and that is looking more and more like a red herring.

The fact they want people to think Jon and Dany to end up together to me also means it won't happen (or it won't end in marriage and with a wedding like Aragorn in LOTR). But the fact they are neither really showing their hands about where Dany's arc is going? I could see her becoming the queen who wins it all or another threat. I actually doubt she'll go Mad Queen just because they already have Cersei for that, but it seems more plausible than ending on church bells like so many fans are now expecting.

 

[Perfect Cell]

The name of the episode is "Eastwatch" tho.

 

[Kane52630]

Yeah I just saw that, IMDB listed it wrong.

Can a mod change the title por favor?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dany has always had a lot of Mad Kin/Viserys to her. How is this a surprise?

 

[TheVileOne]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think what Dany did here is the wrong play at least at the moment. Her army lost most of her ships. They lost their Tyrell allies and they lost High Garden. They lost Dorne.

Whether Tyrion likes it or not, they are at war with Iron Throne. What else could she have done besides retaliate against the army that just sacked one of her allies' strongholds? She didn't exactly raze a city or village.

 

[DACrowe]

It was clearly the right play. This is war and she is now in a position to win it, because even if she doesn't use her dragons to raze King's Landing, she has crippled the city's army. A siege at this point could really win the war. Now given that there are only nine episodes left, I doubt that she will have time for a siege, but this was a good game move on her part. Just on a human level it's awful. But what did Tyrion expect? He sided with the dragon queen to start a war. What comes next is obvious.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Nobody cared when Stannis was all "bend the knee or die"

 

[flickchick85]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think what Dany did here is the wrong play at least at the moment. Her army lost most of her ships. They lost their Tyrell allies and they lost High Garden. They lost Dorne.

Whether Tyrion likes it or not, they are at war with Iron Throne. What else could she have done besides retaliate against the army that just sacked one of her allies' strongholds? She didn't exactly raze a city or village.

Yeah, Jon said if she used the dragons to burn cities and melt castles, then she's just more of the same. But she didn't do that. She didn't burn innocents. She didn't burn anyone's homes. She burned an enemy army on its way back after an ambush against her allies. It was a show of strength against an enemy that was already on the offensive. It was absolutely the right call, imo.

 

[CB Fan]

She ditched Tyrions advice for a bit of Olennas is all.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Nobody cared when Stannis was all "bend the knee or die"

Stannis actually listened to Jon Snow's advice and didn't balk at the notion that the White Walkers existed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, Jon said if she used the dragons to burn cities and melt castles, then she's just more of the same. But she didn't do that. She didn't burn innocents. She didn't burn anyone's homes. She burned an enemy army on its way back after an ambush against her allies. It was a show of strength against an enemy that was already on the offensive. It was absolutely the right call, imo.

I think the whole point of Jaime's viewpoint is how awful what she did was. You can kill people, and you can torture them while you kill them. And she does this all while screaming its mine (its not) and ignoring the fact that dudes who can kill her dragons are getting dangerously close to the wrong side of the Wall.

If what the preview for this episode suggest happens does happen, Dany is straight up in Mad King territory.

 

[flickchick85]

Did they expect her to NOT use her dragons in battle when they backed her? That's how dragons kill people: they burn. If that suddenly makes her "mad" to Tyrion and Varys, then I don't know what they were expecting in the first place.

Now if she burns unarmed troops for simply refusing to "bend the knee," then "mad" belongs in the conversation, imo.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

I guess it is more the ruthlessness and uncompromising attitude that is scary and I love that they play with the question how unhinged she really is. That's what her entire story arc since the beginning of season one was about: Will she still be the good innocent girl once she is able to take over the Iron Throne or will she have become as bad as the worst of them?

I'd be more interested in seeing her losing it all and taking things too far. But in the end, I hope the writers just manage to make it a good story in the end.

 

[CB Fan]

Did they expect her to NOT use her dragons in battle when they backed her? That's how dragons kill people: they burn. If that suddenly makes her "mad" to Tyrion and Varys, then I don't know what they were expecting in the first place.

Now if she burns unarmed troops for simply refusing to "bend the knee," then "mad" belongs in the conversation, imo.

Exactly. You enter into a war with a queen of dragons you better be prepared for fire. And like Leo said above no one turned on Stannis for his uncompromising attitude and ruthlessness (they will bend the knee or I will destroy them). The man killed his own brother and daughter and people still hoped he'd win. Dany tried it Tyrions way and was losing she had to do something. I just want them to show that her gentler nature is still there when she's not on the battlefield or talking political matters.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Stannis killing Renly's barely a villainous action, given how much of a piece of **** Renly was and how his succession to the throne would have likely caused dynastic problems for the Westerosi for centuries to come. In the case of Shireen most people did turn on him and the scant few that didn't only wanted him to win because he was up against villains with no redeeming qualities, who currently held two major protagonists prisoners for regular rape and torture.

There's really no double standard in place there.

 

[CB Fan]

Stannis did and was willing to do other questionable things to fulfill his supposed "destiny" and still no one said he was mad. And until Danny starts killing people just for the pleasure of watching them burn she's no where near a mad queen. Now that she's had her win she does need to start listening to her advisors again though.

 

[Schlosser85]

Daenerys has a ways to go to be in Mad King territory.

There's a huge difference between destroying an enemy army and razing cities to the ground with everyone in them.

At this point Cersei is closer to The Mad King than Daenerys.

 

[CB Fan]

Daenerys has a ways to go to be in Mad King territory.

There's a huge difference between destroying an enemy army and razing cities to the ground with everyone in them.

At this point Cersei is closer to The Mad King than Daenerys.

Exactly.

 

[kvz5]

Daenerys has a ways to go to be in Mad King territory.

There's a huge difference between destroying an enemy army and razing cities to the ground with everyone in them.

At this point Cersei is closer to The Mad King than Daenerys.

Yep, absolutely. I get why the story is now leaning towards her advisors (Tyrion, Varys) fearing that Dany's going mad but IMO she hasn't done anything yet to warrant that. It's not like she attacked cities with innocents and bystanders on it. If anything, Cersei is the one going mad (if she isn't already).

 

[HammerDown]

That show with Daenerys mounted on Drogon while he screams at Jon Snow is epic. Pure gold.

Yeh Daenerys has been give more and more a vibe of a out of control ruler. The story repeats itself. I see Jon Snow being the one to settle her down a bit or at least try to... just by being with her. She has shown affinity for him and he is also into her. So there's something there to keep her in check.