Strange New Worlds Star Trek: Strange New Worlds - General Discussion Thread

[Deck Rickard]

I think we’ve stumbled onto the really important stuff now. Chiefly, who is the hottest captain of the Enterprise?

 

[Dr.]

Right. The Menagerie. Mr. Hunter was a handsome son of a gun. Wasn't he?

Hunter handsome, yes. He also played a handsome, WASP-y Jesus Christ in King of Kings.

But more importantly: the “previously on…” recap from that DISCO episode was 54 years old! That’s gotta be some kind of television record.

 

[InCali]

Hunter handsome, yes. He also played a handsome, WASP-y Jesus Christ in King of Kings.

But more importantly: the “previously on…” recap from that DISCO episode was 54 years old! That’s gotta be some kind of television record.

I think they also had a shot of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" with Michael Rennie from 1951. I just finished watching S2 of Picard, but think it was SNW.

It's pretty clear that movie had an influence on SNW.

 

[vantheman77]

For the Captain Pike story chronology:

Short Treks Q & A > The Cage > Discovery Season 1-2 > Short Treks Ask Not > Strange New Worlds > TOS

 

[Snow Queen]

 

[Dr.]

A humorous funny. But it illustrates the “elastic” nature of canon over an (almost) 60-year-old franchise. On the one hand, we can be sure that the main story elements of “The Cage” and “The Menagerie” occurred — because they’ve been acknowledged in DISCO S2 and (by extension) Strange New Worlds. On the other, Pike’s anachronistic comment in “The Cage” about “women on the bridge” could not have happened because it defies the continuity and sensibilities of the modern (21st century) iterations of Trek. I.e., in the real world, attitudes towards women’s roles in 1965 account for the sexism. But in-universe, in an idealized 23rd century, such sexism must be selectively ignored or “erased” and deemed non-canonical. Along the same lines, we can understand why the modern versions of Number One and Chapel don’t quite track with the originals. The original Chapel, for instance, utterly fails variations of the “Bechdel Test”; whereas the new one (even with limited screen time) is already looking more independent and autonomous. Bottom line: at least some violations of internal consistency and canonicity are both necessary and positive.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I LOVE continuity and a show with a good history. But if you are giving me a good show (and they are) then I'm not expecting 100% in the continuity department. Some things you just have to handwave unless it is critical to the franchises history and the character.

Doing a prequel series that is so close to TOS was always going to have cracks.

 

[InCali]

I think we’ve stumbled onto the really important stuff now. Chiefly, who is the hottest captain of the Enterprise?

I sense the creation of a "Who's hotter?" thread. I kinda got a thing for Jolene Blalock and Jeri Ryan, but can see Hunter or Mount. If he wasn't such a ****, a young William Shatner was a good looking guy too.

 

[TheVileOne]

A humorous funny. But it illustrates the “elastic” nature of canon over an (almost) 60-year-old franchise. On the one hand, we can be sure that the main story elements of “The Cage” and “The Menagerie” occurred — because they’ve been acknowledged in DISCO S2 and (by extension) Strange New Worlds. On the other, Pike’s anachronistic comment in “The Cage” about “women on the bridge” could not have happened because it defies the continuity and sensibilities of the modern (21st century) iterations of Trek. I.e., in the real world, attitudes towards women’s roles in 1965 account for the sexism. But in-universe, in an idealized 23rd century, such sexism must be selectively ignored or “erased” and deemed non-canonical. Along the same lines, we can understand why the modern versions of Number One and Chapel don’t quite track with the originals. The original Chapel, for instance, utterly fails variations of the “Bechdel Test”; whereas the new one (even with limited screen time) is already looking more independent and autonomous. Bottom line: at least some violations of internal consistency and canonicity are both necessary and positive.

Yet another reason they need to toss out this as Prime timeline since they've already altered history and made the Civil War/Eugenics War in the 21st Century instead of the late 20th century.

 

[Sithborg]

That's more a result of real life beginning to bump up with the timeline.

 

[Holy Slapper]

That's more a result of real life beginning to bump up with the timeline.

Yup, we already have more advanced tech in some areas than the original series.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I sense the creation of a "Who's hotter?" thread. I kinda got a thing for Jolene Blalock and Jeri Ryan, but can see Hunter or Mount. If he wasn't such a ****, a young William Shatner was a good looking guy too.

For sure, haha. And while Patrick Stewart was never my cup of tea I know a lot of ladies who found him sexy back in the day.

If we expand it to non-Enterprise Trek, Sonequa Martin-Green and Mary Wiseman would make my list haha.

 

[DKDetective]

Yet another reason they need to toss out this as Prime timeline since they've already altered history and made the Civil War/Eugenics War in the 21st Century instead of the late 20th century.

Hate to break it to you but Wrath of Khan and the TNG era shows, in particular DS9, already made that retcon (if I recall correctly they moved it up to the 21st or 22nd centuries respectively). These sort of retcons have been happening for over 30 years.

 

[misjuevos]

Yeah I think Anson wins on the hair category.

A humorous funny. But it illustrates the “elastic” nature of canon over an (almost) 60-year-old franchise. On the one hand, we can be sure that the main story elements of “The Cage” and “The Menagerie” occurred — because they’ve been acknowledged in DISCO S2 and (by extension) Strange New Worlds. On the other, Pike’s anachronistic comment in “The Cage” about “women on the bridge” could not have happened because it defies the continuity and sensibilities of the modern (21st century) iterations of Trek. I.e., in the real world, attitudes towards women’s roles in 1965 account for the sexism. But in-universe, in an idealized 23rd century, such sexism must be selectively ignored or “erased” and deemed non-canonical. Along the same lines, we can understand why the modern versions of Number One and Chapel don’t quite track with the originals. The original Chapel, for instance, utterly fails variations of the “Bechdel Test”; whereas the new one (even with limited screen time) is already looking more independent and autonomous. Bottom line: at least some violations of internal consistency and canonicity are both necessary and positive.

In TOS they didn't allow females to become captains either.

 

[TheVileOne]

Hate to break it to you but Wrath of Khan and the TNG era shows, in particular DS9, already made that retcon (if I recall correctly they moved it up to the 21st or 22nd centuries respectively). These sort of retcons have been happening for over 30 years.

Nope.

Wrath of Khan: "Criminal, Captain. A product of late-20th century engineering."

Never recall TNG or DS9 saying that about the Eugenics war.

 

[DKDetective]

Nope.

Wrath of Khan: "Criminal, Captain. A product of late-20th century engineering."

Never recall TNG or DS9 saying that about the Eugenics war.

Wrath of Khan:

THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE! Ceti Alpha Six exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. 'Admiral' Kirk never bothered to check on our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically-engineered intellect that allowed us to survive. On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince with power over millions.

Wrath of Khan took place in 2285. Two hundred years ago would be 2085. 1990s would be almost 300 years ago, a genius like Khan would not be so imprecise.

Throughout his appearances, Khan was depicted as comparable in age to Kirk, maybe a little older depending on how much his augmentation slowed down aging. In Space Seed, he appeared about 40 and in Wrath of Khan, 20 years later, he appeared at least 60.

If Khan was the product of late 20th century genetic engineering, it would make sense that he reached his depicted age in the early to mid 21st century. That would put the Eugenics Wars and Khan's flight from Earth in the 21st century as more recent Trek has depicted. So in short, the writers were moving away from a 1990s Eugenics War as early as the 1980s TOS crew films.

DS9, "Doctor Bashir I Presume":

Two hundred years ago, we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing. And what did we get for our troubles? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings – a superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provides a firewall against such men. And it's my job to keep that firewall intact.

This episode occurred in 2373, so two hundred years prior would be the the 2170s.

Space Seed was being retconned as early as TNG when it introduced the idea of the Third World War occurring in the mid-21st century. After all, in Space Seed, the Eugenics Wars was considered Earth's last world war:

SPOCK: No such vessel listed. Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.
MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.

By directly confirming the movement of the Eugenics Wars to the 21st Century, Picard and Strange New Worlds are just making explicit a retcon that has been underway for 40 years.

 

[TheVileOne]

Wrath of Khan:

Wrath of Khan took place in 2285. Two hundred years ago would be 2085. 1990s would be almost 300 years ago, a genius like Khan would not be so imprecise.

Throughout his appearances, Khan was depicted as comparable in age to Kirk, maybe a little older depending on how much his augmentation slowed down aging. In Space Seed, he appeared about 40 and in Wrath of Khan, 20 years later, he appeared at least 60.

If Khan was the product of late 20th century genetic engineering, it would make sense that he reached his depicted age in the early to mid 21st century. That would put the Eugenics Wars and Khan's flight from Earth in the 21st century as more recent Trek has depicted. So in short, the writers were moving away from a 1990s Eugenics War as early as the 1980s TOS crew films.

DS9, "Doctor Bashir I Presume":

This episode occurred in 2373, so two hundred years prior would be the the 2170s.

Space Seed was being retconned as early as TNG when it introduced the idea of the Third World War occurring in the mid-21st century. After all, in Space Seed, the Eugenics Wars was considered Earth's last world war:


By directly confirming the movement of the Eugenics Wars to the 21st Century, Picard and Strange New Worlds are just making explicit a retcon that has been underway for 40 years.

Then why does Chekhov say late-20th century?

 

[DKDetective]

Then why does Chekhov say late-20th century?

I addressed that. A 40 or 50 year old Khan in the mid-21st century would be born in the late 20th century. (2040-50=1990) Therefore, his birth and development would be the product of late 20th century genetic engineering even if the reign of the supermen dictators was mid-21st century. Chekhov's quote that you reference is perfectly consistent with all of the other dialogue suggesting that the Eugenics War was being retconned into the 21st century.

 

[Gaultheria]

Therefore, his birth and development would be the product of late 20th century genetic engineering even if the reign of the supermen dictators was mid-21st century.

I wouldn’t put it past the Star Trek showrunners to weave the Eugenics War into the Temporal Cold War. Future Guy and the Suliban deal in genetic engineering, temporal agents operated on Earth during World War 2 in at least one timeline, Tallinn does not approve of time travel, Wesley is a time-travelling Supervisor in Tallinn’s organization, and Adam looks set to resurrect Project Khan while Rios is settling into 21st-Century life. With all of that established, it could be consistent with canon for Khan and his generation of Augments to be the product of advanced future science similar to the Suliban Cabal agents.

Since the Temporal Cold War was unpopular with viewers, I wouldn’t expect it to be the focus of a new story arc, but it could work as a background explanation for how Earth had such advanced genetic engineering techniques.

 

[Dr.]

In TOS they didn't allow females to become captains either.

I did not know that. However... in the 22nd century, Captain Erika Hernandez was the CO of Columbia NX-02. So one of those things is not canon.

 

[misjuevos]

I did not know that. However... in the 22nd century, Captain Erika Hernandez was the CO of Columbia NX-02. So one of those things is not canon.

It was the plot of the last episode of TOS. Woman switches bodies with Kirk so she can live her dream of becoming a starship captain. Very funny watching Shatner play a woman. Always seemed strange that this was an advanced civilization, but had this rule. But since it was the 60's I figured that was just one of those things that was part of the culture at the time. I have later come to realize it was because Rodenberry based Star Trek on the Navy and woman had limited jobs at that time.

It does make me wonder if women couldn't be captains in TOS why was the first officer a woman in The cage? At some point if something happens she would have to take command of the ship.

 

[Gaultheria]

It was the plot of the last episode of TOS. Woman switches bodies with Kirk so she can live her dream of becoming a starship captain. Very funny watching Shatner play a woman. Always seemed strange that this was an advanced civilization, but had this rule. But since it was the 60's I figured that was just one of those things that was part of the culture at the time. I have later come to realize it was because Rodenberry based Star Trek on the Navy and woman had limited jobs at that time.

Dr. Lester says to Kirk:

Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women. It isn't fair.

Kirk doesn’t deny her words, but she’s apparently on her deathbed, so it would’ve been cruel of him to argue with her. Probably pointless, too, since Kirk would have likely encountered previews of her murderous rage during the year they dated. Kirk knew Lester wasn’t fully in touch with reality.

I figure Dr. Lester failed Starfleet’s psychiatric stability assessment for starship command, and that she’s misrepresenting Starfleet’s ruling because the truth is not in her favour.

 

[C. Lee]

I found this on facebook....I haven't had a chance to watch any STRANGE NEW WORLD'S yet.

 

[titansupes]

This show has been utterly brilliant.

Perfect revitalisation and modernisation of 'Classic Trek'. The production design and costuming, the cinematography and FX, the bright and optimistic tone that balances so well drama and brevity, the variety of stories, the return to a more episodic and ensemble format and, and of course, the characters and their respective performers... I honestly have nothing but effusive praise for all of it.

Feels incredible to have a genuine Star Trek show again.

 

[TheVileOne]

I wish Halo looked as good as this show.