Deck Rickard
Lord of Frenzied Flame
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I think we’ve stumbled onto the really important stuff now. Chiefly, who is the hottest captain of the Enterprise?
Hunter handsome, yes. He also played a handsome, WASP-y Jesus Christ in King of Kings.Right. The Menagerie. Mr. Hunter was a handsome son of a gun. Wasn't he?
Hunter handsome, yes. He also played a handsome, WASP-y Jesus Christ in King of Kings.
But more importantly: the “previously on…” recap from that DISCO episode was 54 years old! That’s gotta be some kind of television record.
A humorous funny. But it illustrates the “elastic” nature of canon over an (almost) 60-year-old franchise. On the one hand, we can be sure that the main story elements of “The Cage” and “The Menagerie” occurred — because they’ve been acknowledged in DISCO S2 and (by extension) Strange New Worlds. On the other, Pike’s anachronistic comment in “The Cage” about “women on the bridge” could not have happened because it defies the continuity and sensibilities of the modern (21st century) iterations of Trek. I.e., in the real world, attitudes towards women’s roles in 1965 account for the sexism. But in-universe, in an idealized 23rd century, such sexism must be selectively ignored or “erased” and deemed non-canonical. Along the same lines, we can understand why the modern versions of Number One and Chapel don’t quite track with the originals. The original Chapel, for instance, utterly fails variations of the “Bechdel Test”; whereas the new one (even with limited screen time) is already looking more independent and autonomous. Bottom line: at least some violations of internal consistency and canonicity are both necessary and positive.
I think we’ve stumbled onto the really important stuff now. Chiefly, who is the hottest captain of the Enterprise?
A humorous funny. But it illustrates the “elastic” nature of canon over an (almost) 60-year-old franchise. On the one hand, we can be sure that the main story elements of “The Cage” and “The Menagerie” occurred — because they’ve been acknowledged in DISCO S2 and (by extension) Strange New Worlds. On the other, Pike’s anachronistic comment in “The Cage” about “women on the bridge” could not have happened because it defies the continuity and sensibilities of the modern (21st century) iterations of Trek. I.e., in the real world, attitudes towards women’s roles in 1965 account for the sexism. But in-universe, in an idealized 23rd century, such sexism must be selectively ignored or “erased” and deemed non-canonical. Along the same lines, we can understand why the modern versions of Number One and Chapel don’t quite track with the originals. The original Chapel, for instance, utterly fails variations of the “Bechdel Test”; whereas the new one (even with limited screen time) is already looking more independent and autonomous. Bottom line: at least some violations of internal consistency and canonicity are both necessary and positive.
That's more a result of real life beginning to bump up with the timeline.
I sense the creation of a "Who's hotter?" thread. I kinda got a thing for Jolene Blalock and Jeri Ryan, but can see Hunter or Mount. If he wasn't such a ****, a young William Shatner was a good looking guy too.
Hate to break it to you but Wrath of Khan and the TNG era shows, in particular DS9, already made that retcon (if I recall correctly they moved it up to the 21st or 22nd centuries respectively). These sort of retcons have been happening for over 30 years.Yet another reason they need to toss out this as Prime timeline since they've already altered history and made the Civil War/Eugenics War in the 21st Century instead of the late 20th century.
Yeah I think Anson wins on the hair category.
In TOS they didn't allow females to become captains either.A humorous funny. But it illustrates the “elastic” nature of canon over an (almost) 60-year-old franchise. On the one hand, we can be sure that the main story elements of “The Cage” and “The Menagerie” occurred — because they’ve been acknowledged in DISCO S2 and (by extension) Strange New Worlds. On the other, Pike’s anachronistic comment in “The Cage” about “women on the bridge” could not have happened because it defies the continuity and sensibilities of the modern (21st century) iterations of Trek. I.e., in the real world, attitudes towards women’s roles in 1965 account for the sexism. But in-universe, in an idealized 23rd century, such sexism must be selectively ignored or “erased” and deemed non-canonical. Along the same lines, we can understand why the modern versions of Number One and Chapel don’t quite track with the originals. The original Chapel, for instance, utterly fails variations of the “Bechdel Test”; whereas the new one (even with limited screen time) is already looking more independent and autonomous. Bottom line: at least some violations of internal consistency and canonicity are both necessary and positive.
Hate to break it to you but Wrath of Khan and the TNG era shows, in particular DS9, already made that retcon (if I recall correctly they moved it up to the 21st or 22nd centuries respectively). These sort of retcons have been happening for over 30 years.
Wrath of Khan:Nope.
Wrath of Khan: "Criminal, Captain. A product of late-20th century engineering."
Never recall TNG or DS9 saying that about the Eugenics war.
Wrath of Khan took place in 2285. Two hundred years ago would be 2085. 1990s would be almost 300 years ago, a genius like Khan would not be so imprecise.THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE! Ceti Alpha Six exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. 'Admiral' Kirk never bothered to check on our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically-engineered intellect that allowed us to survive. On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince with power over millions.
This episode occurred in 2373, so two hundred years prior would be the the 2170s.Two hundred years ago, we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing. And what did we get for our troubles? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings – a superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provides a firewall against such men. And it's my job to keep that firewall intact.
SPOCK: No such vessel listed. Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.
MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.
Wrath of Khan:
Wrath of Khan took place in 2285. Two hundred years ago would be 2085. 1990s would be almost 300 years ago, a genius like Khan would not be so imprecise.
Throughout his appearances, Khan was depicted as comparable in age to Kirk, maybe a little older depending on how much his augmentation slowed down aging. In Space Seed, he appeared about 40 and in Wrath of Khan, 20 years later, he appeared at least 60.
If Khan was the product of late 20th century genetic engineering, it would make sense that he reached his depicted age in the early to mid 21st century. That would put the Eugenics Wars and Khan's flight from Earth in the 21st century as more recent Trek has depicted. So in short, the writers were moving away from a 1990s Eugenics War as early as the 1980s TOS crew films.
DS9, "Doctor Bashir I Presume":
This episode occurred in 2373, so two hundred years prior would be the the 2170s.
Space Seed was being retconned as early as TNG when it introduced the idea of the Third World War occurring in the mid-21st century. After all, in Space Seed, the Eugenics Wars was considered Earth's last world war:
By directly confirming the movement of the Eugenics Wars to the 21st Century, Picard and Strange New Worlds are just making explicit a retcon that has been underway for 40 years.
I addressed that. A 40 or 50 year old Khan in the mid-21st century would be born in the late 20th century. (2040-50=1990) Therefore, his birth and development would be the product of late 20th century genetic engineering even if the reign of the supermen dictators was mid-21st century. Chekhov's quote that you reference is perfectly consistent with all of the other dialogue suggesting that the Eugenics War was being retconned into the 21st century.Then why does Chekhov say late-20th century?
I wouldn’t put it past the Star Trek showrunners to weave the Eugenics War into the Temporal Cold War. Future Guy and the Suliban deal in genetic engineering, temporal agents operated on Earth during World War 2 in at least one timeline, Tallinn does not approve of time travel, Wesley is a time-travelling Supervisor in Tallinn’s organization, and Adam looks set to resurrect Project Khan while Rios is settling into 21st-Century life. With all of that established, it could be consistent with canon for Khan and his generation of Augments to be the product of advanced future science similar to the Suliban Cabal agents.Therefore, his birth and development would be the product of late 20th century genetic engineering even if the reign of the supermen dictators was mid-21st century.
In TOS they didn't allow females to become captains either.
It was the plot of the last episode of TOS. Woman switches bodies with Kirk so she can live her dream of becoming a starship captain. Very funny watching Shatner play a woman. Always seemed strange that this was an advanced civilization, but had this rule. But since it was the 60's I figured that was just one of those things that was part of the culture at the time. I have later come to realize it was because Rodenberry based Star Trek on the Navy and woman had limited jobs at that time.I did not know that. However... in the 22nd century, Captain Erika Hernandez was the CO of Columbia NX-02. So one of those things is not canon.
It was the plot of the last episode of TOS. Woman switches bodies with Kirk so she can live her dream of becoming a starship captain. Very funny watching Shatner play a woman. Always seemed strange that this was an advanced civilization, but had this rule. But since it was the 60's I figured that was just one of those things that was part of the culture at the time. I have later come to realize it was because Rodenberry based Star Trek on the Navy and woman had limited jobs at that time.
Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women. It isn't fair.