I liked it a lot, even though I questioned a few choices Johnson made in the film. I'll have a more detailed review later but I liked how different it was from The Force Awakens. I liked them equally but in different ways.
Normally I'd go into depth about a film like this, but I just feel like all these characters deserved better than what was delivered. I got the feeling at times this film wasn't interested in continuing the plot threads from the last film. Frankly, there were long stretches of this film that felt boring. I'm just stunned how they managed to launch a new trilogy with four interesting new characters and then just drop the ball with them immediately in the next movie. This film looks great, and it has some interesting character moments, but there's too much bloat in this movie for such a simple and weak story. I feel like this is at best a 5/10 movie, but I'm not sure about it. The more I think about it, the less I like this movie.
My thoughts are pretty close to this, especially the last sentence. I'll add that TLJ doesn't give me a good sense of what to expect or anticipate from the next film. In fact, I almost don't even care. The two factions seem to be more concerned with fighting and chasing after each other rather than fighting for something in an ideological or political sense. I don't even know what their goals are aside from "kill the other guys". The characters themselves don't fare much better.
Feeling more and more disappointed the more I think about it.
Yes there were some really good performances and some good parts, but looking at it from an overall saga & universe perspective (more than just the Skywalker saga that is), really bummed.
From a film perspective some of it worked, some of it didn't.
On the whole, I'm kinda like 'ok, gimme the end of Rebels' and then we'll see how much of myself I want to invest mentally and emotionally going forward.
So much to take in and process...where to even begin...
Okay, I didn't hate this movie, I didn't love this movie. I will say I had more fun watching it than I expected to. Another thing I'll say upfront...this really isn't my type of Star Wars movie. I've always seen Star Wars as a science fiction adventure series with mystical undertones. When I think of Star Wars, I think of spaceships, blasters, smugglers, a lived-in universe, the Rogue Squadron video games, Boba Fett, and just enough mysticism to add a little depth and mystery. This was kind of the opposite...TLJ was VERY much focused on the Force, and the wacky space adventure was really just a backdrop for that. This is NOT necessarily a bad thing, it's just not what I love about Star Wars. There are massive amounts of fans who will absolutely eat this up, but I can't say I'm one of them.
Positives:
With the above being said, it should be no surprise that my favorite parts of the movie were just the fun adventure bits. A lot of the stuff with Finn, Rose and BB-8 felt like classic Star Wars, with a lot of fun moments. Heck, I thought BB-8 got some of the best moments. The opening scene was freakin' amazing. When the movie started with Poe taking down that Dreadnought, I thought "I take back everything I said, this movie's gonna be great!" It felt sort of self-aware and it was goofy as heck (I definitely get the Marvel-humor complaints), but it was amazingly entertaining and really took me back to being a 10-year old playing Rogue Squadron. If only the rest of the movie were like that...
Leia: I wasn't thrilled with the way she was handled in TFA (she was very underused), but she really got a chance to shine here. I wasn't even a huge Leia fan growing up (I liked her fine, just never one of my favorites), but I dare say this movie actually made me like her more. She felt like a natural progression of OT Leia, which was great. I may even like the way she was handled here better than Han in TFA. Definitely a solid final appearance for Carrie Fisher. [BLACKOUT]I'm curious how they'll handle her in Ep.
9.[/BLACKOUT]
One Luke moment:
For a movie that's been hyped for months as having "unexpected twists", I didn't think a lot of the surprises were really that great or groundbreaking. But one surprise that did deliver was Luke's reveal at the end. I had no idea he'd show back up, and when it did it raised all sorts of questions. How did he get the lightsaber? What ship did he come here on? I legitimately thought they had contradicted themselves for a cool reveal. The reveal that he was a Force projection was pretty shocking and clever, I didn't see it coming.
A lot of the things I've complained about thankfully weren't that intrusive in the film. The "bigger" gorilla walkers, the porgs, etc. In general this seemed slightly less nostalgia driven then TFA. This certainly took a fair share of inspiration from ESB, but it didn't feel like a straight-up remake for the most part.
Negatives:
The story felt sort of disjointed to me. Like others have said, it felt like a sequence of events. I've complained that TFA also feels like a disjointed sequence of events (I'd argue more so than TLJ), but I feel like TFA is somewhat saved by the fact that it's trying to be more of a fun, fast-paced, in-the moment popcorn adventure. This is attempting to be a much deeper and darker narrative, so something like the ultimately pointless Canto Bight subplot feels super awkward and out-of place. This movie needed a much tighter plot with more payoff.
Characterizations: I complained about Rey's lack of characterization and development in TFA. Well, this movie makes that look like a masterpiece. I feel like Rey didn't change at all as a person in this film, or even grow more powerful. The supposed main character of this trilogy sat around on an island for three-fourths of this movie and did almost nothing. I guess she [BLACKOUT]convinced Luke to play a part at the end[/BLACKOUT]. Oh, and she [BLACKOUT]moved some rocks. As if the Resistance didn't have guns to just blast those rocks out of the way, lol. That was supposed to be a cool hero moment in the movie, and I honestly found it a bit laughable[/BLACKOUT].
Kylo didn't thrill me in this one. I was legitimately curious how they would continue his arc, but he just seemed to flip-flop back and forth in this movie (I don't think I'm giving anything away by not spoiler-tagging this, since it's in the trailers, the movie just feels like an extended version of that.) I'm not sure I like the [BLACKOUT]"Force chat"[/BLACKOUT] thing that him and Rey do throughout the film. It felt convenient, and too on the nose compared to similar things from the OT which were handled in a much more abstract manner. In regards to Snoke...yikes. I was really hoping they'd give him some interesting motivation and backstory, but nope. [BLACKOUT]And now he's gone, which was weird and sudden. It was a cool death, well-choreographed, but they really missed the opportunity to flesh him out more.[/BLACKOUT] People complain that Marvel has weak villains, but I honestly think Snoke is far less interesting and far more bland than most of the Marvel villains.
Luke Skywalker's characterization:
Ugh, I really didn't like what they did with him in this movie. Growing up, Luke was probably my favorite Star Wars character. I didn't even realize it until recently, but I think Luke connected with me more than Han,
who's most people's favorite.
With that in mind, seeing Luke like this was really uncomfortable, it was very off-putting and bizarre. I never saw Luke as the kind of guy who would even consider killing a padawan, even if he sensed the presence of the dark side in him. What we see in the flashback seemed EXTREMELY out-of-character for Luke, and I find it disturbing that the filmmakers even thought to take it in this direction.
Above I praised the reveal. While I felt like it worked as a reveal, I actually wish Luke had just been there in person. He could have survived the walker barrage with some new force power. It's sad that one of the most likable and iconic heroes ever is reduced to dying alone on an island as a crazy old hermit. Even if he did sort of redeem himself, it still wasn't enough to not make his death terribly depressing. Especially when the EU had a much more logical and pleasing progression for his character.
I didn't mind the whole "Jedi must end" thing, and I actually enjoyed the line about the Jedi being a corrupt and hypocritical order (which lines up with what we see in the prequels.)
A lot of the small things and details in this movie came across as weird to me. DJ was...odd. Was he supposed to be drunk, or was that just his way of acting cool? The shield effect on the Resistance ships was off, they've used that effect in Star Trek, but shields in Star Wars are supposed to be invisible. When Holdo [BLACKOUT]crashes the transport at lightspeed into the Star Destroyer it completely tears it (and a lot of other ships) apart in a spectacular light display[/BLACKOUT], but the same thing in Rogue One just caused the ship to explode without harming the Star Destroyer. Not to mention if [BLACKOUT]crashing a ship at lightspeed causes such enormous destruction[/BLACKOUT], why don't they just build a bunch of unmanned ships to do that? I noticed a few other contradictions like this, and in general they played very fast and lose with the tech. Forgive me for nitpicking details, but there were a LOT of really bizarre decisions in the details that stuck out to me.
The humor was really hit or miss.
Overall Thoughts
As I said, I didn't hate it or love it. I'd definitely rank it closer to the prequels than the OT. It's probably a better-made film than the prequels, but I actually like their story and vision better. Aside from a few small fun moments, nothing in TLJ really thrilled me. Way too much focus on the mysticism for me, and it didn't feel enough like Star Wars. I feel like I could have stomached it if it weren't for how Luke's character was handled, but because of that I just can't really accept it as a good Star Wars film. I said a while back that if this movie let me down I'll probably stop taking this trilogy seriously. Well, I'm kind of at that point after seeing this. Sure I'll watch Episode 9, but it will just be glorified fanfiction for me. Anything past Episode 6 didn't happen in my mind, as far as I'm concerned they beat the bad guys and all lived happily ever after, and Luke went on to train a successful new generation of Jedi. I am looking forward to more spinoff films though.
I'm still processing it, but so far I'm baffled by critical reception of this film. Bizarre fan fiction. Vast majority of it's problems stem from suckage named The Force Awakens. Poor Luke.
I respect the film because it made a lot of bold decisions, instead of reusing the same old formula. What I didn't like was the trade off. It made some of the big players feel less epic, and somewhat insignificant to overall story. I really hope IX pulls back the veil and reveals there's much more to what what we saw in VIII.
With that said, I would give it an 8/10, and place it as my 5th favorite (TFA being #4). The movie was fun and beautifully shot. Other than some of the character decisions made in this film, I would have to say the whole Canto Bight mission was the film's weak link. It just felt boring and out of place. It's very unfortunate because Finn was my favorite character in TFA, and he didn't really get to shine in this one.
A lot to process, not sure I can coherently rate the film at this stage. It definitely wasn't what I was expecting (whatever that might've been). It was a little overlong, and didn't really get going until the last third. I liked the slower pace, unlike TFA which was go go go, and some of the character moments are great. And again, unlike Abrams, Johnson's humor never felt forced. But there was a lot of wheel spinning, and not much in the way of plot (not that that's inherently a bad thing).
I'm happy with it though, and very curious to see how they wrap it all up in IX. I'm also satisfied with Johnson's take on the franchise so I'm glad he'll be getting more films to explore the universe with.
My brain is too tired to write a comprehensive review right now, but suffice it to say I actually adored this film. I loved TFA too, but this blew it outta the water for me. All of the controversial decisions totally worked from a thematic and narrative standpoint, imo, and didn't bother me in context one bit. I guess it helps that I hadn't built up these mysteries in my head over the last two years the way a lot of people did, so it was easier for me to go with it, but I thought it made sense to the story they are telling that it would play out that way. And that story is very exciting to me. Unlike TFA, there's nothing about this that felt like a retread, and it now feels like we're in new territory. I can't wait to see where it goes next, and I REALLY can't wait to see this guy's trilogy. Also, this had the most gorgeous visuals of the saga bar none, imo.
Just got home from the movie and about to go to bed but had to come on here will fast. I am not sure what to think about the movie compared to the other star wars movies. I am going to need a 2nd watch. It was a lot different and there where some things I didn't like. I have know idea what to expect in episode 9 come 2019. I think 7 ended in a way where you had a better idea of how 8 could be then 8 ending in a way where you have a idea what 9 could be like.
Just got home from the movie and about to go to bed but had to come on here will fast. I am not sure what to think about the movie compared to the other star wars movies. I am going to need a 2nd watch. It was a lot different and there where some things I didn't like. I have know idea what to expect in episode 9 come 2019. I think 7 ended in a way where you had a better idea of how 8 could be then 8 ending in a way where you have a idea what 9 could be like.
Exactly how I felt. Unsure of where it goes from here. JJ Abrams took the easy and familiar route, but shrouded it in mystery. I think most of us were expecting VIII to reveal Rey and Snoke were of some significance in regards to the previous films. TESB revealed a lot, so when TFA is a retread of ANH, it's easy to assume such a repeat. Instead, Johnson threw us a curve ball. Not only did TLJ not feel like TESB, but everything you thought would be a huge revelation ended up being "not a big deal". So with it feeling unfamiliar this time around, we really don't know what to expect. Personally I think it's a good thing not to know what IX will be like. I just hate that TLJ had to surround itself with mediocrity just to be original.
Saw it yesterday at 6pm at a fan event. I'm very mixed on this film. There are things I absolutely loved, and there are things are absolutely hated. The things I hated are a mixture of things within the plot I thought were stupid and didn't make sense, and directions RJ took some of the characters that I don't agree with.
Also I was fully prepared to have been totally wrong about the movie being divisive, but on Reddit it's getting very mixed reactions (tons of disappointed people) and on RT the audience score keeps dropping and is currently at 67%. I don't think it's a bad film by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm honestly shocked at the 8.2/10 average rating by critics on RT. Even if you just look at it as a film instead of a Star Wars film, the plot has quite a few problems, so I don't know what Disney put in their drinks before they watched this movie, but the Critics and Audience/Fan discrepancy is gonna be interesting with this movie.
Also, kudos if you liked the movie.
I might write my full thoughts on the movie when I return home tonight, but for now I'll at least say this about how dumb the plot is:
If Holdo had simply just told Poe what her plan was, the Finn/Rose story arc (which makes up almost half the movie) could've been completely avoided. There was no reason for her to hold out on Poe like that. Also as bad at the Prequels are, I'm debating whether or not Leia flying through space is the actual low point in the entire saga.
Down 67%. You are not alone in your criticism. Now the real story is not what it grosses this weekend, but what it does the second weekend. There may be a cliff here if word of mouth is lukewarm or worse. No one wants to go see a downer film that lasts 2.5 hours during the holidays.
Down 67%. You are not alone in your criticism. Now the real story is not what it grosses this weekend, but what it does the second weekend. There may be a cliff here if word of mouth is lukewarm or worse. No one wants to go see a downer film that lasts 2.5 hours during the holidays.
TLJ was never going to make as much money as TFA. However with the audience/fan divide over this film, I'm paying close attention to the film's legs. If it makes considerably less money than TFA, then I have to wonder if Disney will do anything about it. They just gave RJ the keys for an entire trilogy. Will that change? Will JJ be pressured to try and retcon certain things in IX?
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