The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread

I just don’t want this Superman too dive too heavily into the racism angle. I just want 2 hours of escapism rather than getting a lecture. I think a lot of people will feel this way and these feelings are warranted, IMO. I don’t know, I guess we’ll just have to see.
You don't hire a guy like Coates if delving into race isn't the intention

Toby Emmerich literally says his book Between the World and Me changed the way people look at the world (lol)
 
They said it was, " a Black Superman story " as opposed to a Superman story which we'll happen to cast a Black actor to play him.

So it's gonna it's delve into race in one way or another. That's unavoidable. How they do it is really the question.
 
Last edited:
& I see far too many people online implying that that aspect alone means this can’t be good.

Says so much more about them as individuals as opposed to whatever vapid points they bring up about Hollywood and the world.
 
You don't hire a guy like Coates if delving into race isn't the intention

Toby Emmerich literally says his book Between the World and Me changed the way people look at the world (lol)
That book meant a lot to a lot of people, dude. Obviously he didn’t mean literally all of humanity. It’s a beautiful piece of writing.
 
I agree with you. Like we all know the variety of stories that are possible with all these characters, Superman in particular, given the nature of comics and whatnot. But it’s just a matter of how TPTB want to balance that with generally fun film that appeals to a wife audience. Maybe the film will have its moments while dealing with Superman having to defeat some enemy. For example, a crazy alien invasion (Brainiac adding to his collection?) for Superman to battle while Clark Kent has to deal with possible gentrification in the neighborhood he just moved to in Metropolis. Like he just moved there and now has to face the reality of having to move out or pay crazy rent and see people who’ve lived there for years or generations have to move too and how that affects their lives.

Huh. That’s actually a really good idea. I’d be into that.

They’re gonna have to tackle the death of Superman again but instead of returning with a mullet, it’s gonna be Jheri curl. :hehe:



:funny:
 
Superman began as a deeply, intensely political character. The closer this gets to a more sophisticated rendition of golden age Superman, the better.

I’m not saying the movie needs to have lengthy lectures, but I have zero issue with this being heavily political in its thematics and subject matter. Emphasize Clark as a journalist. So much of that is already built into the character.
 
Absolutely. At the same time, that doesn't mean if they want a minority actor to portray an already popular character that they can't or shouldn't since there are already minority characters that they haven't exploited. Exploiting other minority characters and casting a minority in traditionally white role are two separate things, and aren't really connected unless the argument is that minorities shouldn't play White characters since there are minority characters which haven't been exploited.

The reality is, you can do both and it's not an either or proposition. WB should exploit as many original Black characters as they have. At the same time, that doesn't mean that therefore, WB shouldn't cast a Black actor as Superman. They can do both. It's not an either or thing.


The MCU has already done both . There's Black Panther who's Black and Heimdall and Nick Fury who were white in the comics and in live action, who's now Black.

Yes, I know Fury was made Black in the Ultimates before the films. The point still holds true. They're exploiting their original Black characters like T'Challa and Jim Rhodes, while colorizing Nick Fury, Heimdall, Ned Leeds, and " MJ ". There's more than one way to achieve diversity, and it's certainly not limited to limiting minor actors to only playing originally minority roles.

I guess I'm referring to a lead character level. If you want to make a side character black....although I kinda still disagree with it, I'm not going to kick up as big a fuss for that. Its more about the total IP that comes with that character.

Is there more than one way to skin a cat? Sure, of course, but follow what I'm saying. The diversity we want is to promote original black characters, heroes with their own unique and original stories, their own cast of supporting characters and villains that were expressly created for a black-centered property. Why would you reskin an existing popular white character into a black one when you have perfectly good black characters just hanging around that all need that same attention? (You and I both know the answer to that....cue Mr Krabs..."Money!!") By not promoting and investing in this one character, you're not just shortchanging one character, you're shortchanging that entire black IP and all that comes with it.

For example....Marvel Netflix shows. What if instead of giving us Luke Cage, they gave Miles Morales? Some people would have been excited about that, but I would've simply saw it as a huge missed opportunity to bring in an original black character that fit within that Netflix universe. And when you lose Luke Cage, you lose his stories, his voice, his journey, his entire universe. Cottonmouth, Black Mariah, Diamondback, Misty, Bushmaster. I loved that show and I'd rather have that than blackwashed white guys any days.
 
I guess I'm referring to a lead character level. If you want to make a side character black....although I kinda still disagree with it, I'm not going to kick up as big a fuss for that. Its more about the total IP that comes with that character.

Is there more than one way to skin a cat? Sure, of course, but follow what I'm saying. The diversity we want is to promote original black characters, heroes with their own unique and original stories, their own cast of supporting characters and villains that were expressly created for a black-centered property. Why would you reskin an existing popular white character into a black one when you have perfectly good black characters just hanging around that all need that same attention? (You and I both know the answer to that....cue Mr Krabs..."Money!!") By not promoting and investing in this one character, you're not just shortchanging one character, you're shortchanging that entire black IP and all that comes with it.

For example....Marvel Netflix shows. What if instead of giving us Luke Cage, they gave Miles Morales? Some people would have been excited about that, but I would've simply saw it as a huge missed opportunity to bring in an original black character that fit within that Netflix universe. And when you lose Luke Cage, you lose his stories, his voice, his journey, his entire universe. Cottonmouth, Black Mariah, Diamondback, Misty, Bushmaster. I loved that show and I'd rather have that than blackwashed white guys any days.
That’s a strange analogy because Miles has a whole supporting cast too. Some of which the MCU swiped for Peter!
 
That’s a strange analogy because Miles has a whole supporting cast too. Some of which the MCU swiped for Peter!
I guess that's true, I was more focused on Luke Cage getting the shaft in that regards in favor of a popular IP.
 
More than anything else though, I think representation and opportunity for the talent involved is what matters most. This will be a huge budget blockbuster with a black lead, a black writer and most likely a black director. You don't get a lot of those. The IP is kinda secondary, IP is there to serve creators to me - not the other way around.
 
Who is Calvin Ellis Superman’s supporting cast? Is it different versions of Lex, Lois, etc.?

Just how different is he from Clark Kent other than he’s the President of the United States?
 
More than anything else though, I think representation and opportunity for the talent involved is what matters most. This will be a huge budget blockbuster with a black lead, a black writer and most likely a black director. You don't get a lot of those. The IP is kinda secondary, IP is there to serve creators to me - not the other way around.
Black Panther was a big budget blockbuster project too. Black lead, black writer, black director. Great black cast, great black actors. So its been proven we can do all of that AND promote an original black IP.
 
Black Panther was a big budget blockbuster project too. Black lead, black writer, black director. Great black cast, great black actors. So its been proven we can do all of that AND promote an original black IP.
Yes, you can, but I completely reject the notion that there's anything wrong with doing variations on established characters like this. It's either going to be an interesting new twist or, on the off chance it doesn't deal with race at all, irrelevant beyond being a nice bit of representation.
 
I just don’t want this Superman too dive too heavily into the racism angle. I just want 2 hours of escapism rather than getting a lecture. I think a lot of people will feel this way and these feelings are warranted, IMO. I don’t know, I guess we’ll just have to see.
this is also a good point because then it becomes the "oh if you're so powerful, why don't YOU solve what's wrong in the world, like racism, dictators, etc"
 
I guess I'm referring to a lead character level. If you want to make a side character black....although I kinda still disagree with it, I'm not going to kick up as big a fuss for that. Its more about the total IP that comes with that character.

Is there more than one way to skin a cat? Sure, of course, but follow what I'm saying. The diversity we want is to promote original black characters, heroes with their own unique and original stories, their own cast of supporting characters and villains that were expressly created for a black-centered property. Why would you reskin an existing popular white character into a black one when you have perfectly good black characters just hanging around that all need that same attention? (You and I both know the answer to that....cue Mr Krabs..."Money!!") By not promoting and investing in this one character, you're not just shortchanging one character, you're shortchanging that entire black IP and all that comes with it.

.

I follow your argument, but you're making it and either or proposition , when it isn't. Making a Black Superman doesn't short change the rest of their Black IP characters. It means that they need to exploit more their Black characters and be open to casting POC as leads or supporting characters in properties which lack minorities , which are plentiful.

"Reskinning" a character is unrelated to exploiting perfectly good Black characters. The two aren't connected unless the idea is Black actors should only play Black characters . It doesn't matter if there are other perfectly good Black characters if the goal is to tell a Black Superman story.

It only matters if the argument is that a Black actor shouldn't play Superman because there are other perfectly good Black characters .

If that were the standard , then minorities would only be relegated to playing only original minority characters, and there would be no reason that wouldn't apply to only lead characters.

Further, that pretty much limits the amount of roles that Black or other minority actors and actresses would get to play in a given cbm, especially if most if not all of the leads and supporting characters are White, which is the case with alot of cbm and fictional characters.

Under that principle, if a studio decided to make a spat of cbm which were based off of properties with only white lead, and supporting characters, minority actors would just be "outta luck" since Hollywood would have to only cast actors who fit the traditionally comics version.

So the idea that " just promote the existing Black or minorities IPs, and don't touch the White ones" isn't a solution to Hollywood's diversity problem either. All it does is present another problem.

Yeah, you would be promoting exclusively minority characters, but they would become further a minority since they would only be limited to those specific films, and they would only ever appear in major cbm if those comics counterparts featured minorities. It doesn't work.

That's one of the reasons why Disney, The MCU, and the Arrowverse have started to do both, and really , I've yet to really see a strong argument why doing both a bad.

I'm Black, and I know perfectly well Hollywood's skittishness when it comes to exploiting Black characters in general let alone in cbms.

But Hollywood's lack of exploitation of other original Black characters and there other failings does not then mean therefore, that promoting diversity( or just telling a Black Superman story because the story is good,) shouldn't happen .
 
I follow your argument, but you're making it and either or proposition , when it isn't. Making a Black Superman doesn't short change the rest of their Black IP characters. It means that they need to exploit more their Black characters and be open to casting POC as leads or supporting characters in properties which lack minorities , which are plentiful.

"Reskinning" a character is unrelated to exploiting perfectly good Black characters. The two aren't connected unless the idea is Black actors should only play Black characters . It doesn't matter if there are other perfectly good Black characters if the goal is to tell a Black Superman story.

It only matters if the argument is that a Black actor shouldn't play Superman because there are other perfectly good Black characters .

If that were the standard , then minorities would only be relegated to playing only original minority characters, and there would be no reason that wouldn't apply to only lead characters.

Further, that pretty much limits the amount of roles that Black or other minority actors and actresses would get to play in a given cbm, especially if most if not all of the leads and supporting characters are White, which is the case with alot of cbm and fictional characters.

Under that principle, if a studio decided to make a spat of cbm which were based off of properties with only white lead, and supporting characters, minority actors would just be "outta luck" since Hollywood would have to only cast actors who fit the traditionally comics version.

So the idea that " just promote the existing Black or minorities IPs, and don't touch the White ones" isn't a solution to Hollywood's diversity problem either. All it does is present another problem.

Yeah, you would be promoting exclusively minority characters, but they would become further a minority since they would only be limited to those specific films, and they would only ever appear in major cbm if those comics counterparts featured minorities. It doesn't work.

That's one of the reasons why Disney, The MCU, and the Arrowverse have started to do both, and really , I've yet to really see a strong argument why doing both a bad.

I'm Black, and I know perfectly well Hollywood's skittishness when it comes to exploiting Black characters in general let alone in cbms.

But Hollywood's lack of exploitation of other original Black characters and there other failings does not then mean therefore, that promoting diversity( or just telling a Black Superman story because the story is good,) shouldn't happen .
Point. Blank. Period.
 
I follow your argument, but you're making it and either or proposition , when it isn't. Making a Black Superman doesn't short change the rest of their Black IP characters. It means that they need to exploit more their Black characters and be open to casting POC as leads or supporting characters in properties which lack minorities , which are plentiful.

"Reskinning" a character is unrelated to exploiting perfectly good Black characters. The two aren't connected unless the idea is Black actors should only play Black characters . It doesn't matter if there are other perfectly good Black characters if the goal is to tell a Black Superman story.

It only matters if the argument is that a Black actor shouldn't play Superman because there are other perfectly good Black characters .

If that were the standard , then minorities would only be relegated to playing only original minority characters, and there would be no reason that wouldn't apply to only lead characters.

Further, that pretty much limits the amount of roles that Black or other minority actors and actresses would get to play in a given cbm, especially if most if not all of the leads and supporting characters are White, which is the case with alot of cbm and fictional characters.

Under that principle, if a studio decided to make a spat of cbm which were based off of properties with only white lead, and supporting characters, minority actors would just be "outta luck" since Hollywood would have to only cast actors who fit the traditionally comics version.

So the idea that " just promote the existing Black or minorities IPs, and don't touch the White ones" isn't a solution to Hollywood's diversity problem either. All it does is present another problem.

Yeah, you would be promoting exclusively minority characters, but they would become further a minority since they would only be limited to those specific films, and they would only ever appear in major cbm if those comics counterparts featured minorities. It doesn't work.

That's one of the reasons why Disney, The MCU, and the Arrowverse have started to do both, and really , I've yet to really see a strong argument why doing both a bad.

I'm Black, and I know perfectly well Hollywood's skittishness when it comes to exploiting Black characters in general let alone in cbms.

But Hollywood's lack of exploitation of other original Black characters and there other failings does not then mean therefore, that promoting diversity( or just telling a Black Superman story because the story is good,) shouldn't happen .
foK.gif
 
it is connected b/c there are only X weekends in a year to release a film and Y dollars a studio has for their film slate

so by making a race-swapped superman they are thus removing a potential film that can 1) be a new and refreshing IP and 2) by still associating with the superman "brand" there will be expectations from the studio, aka don't get too crazy b/c we don't want to decrease any potential box office returns, it is superman after all

so then the race-swap just becomes that. it becomes lip service. it's just a coat of paint on a film franchise that, quite frankly, WB haven't been able to deliver on in over 35 years. let's say they ignore calvin ellis and go full clark kent. will he still be hopeful? will he be optimistic, positive, a symbol of hope and not burdened by his station? will it be a counter to snyder's superman take, or will it be WB's attempt #7405896 in "making superman relevant for the modern times" by having him have some sort of internal conflict he wouldn't have (more than likely in this case being about race)

because you don't hire a guy like coates to do anything like that. his entire work is from a very specific lens/POV.

the argument that "if you promote minority films, then you are furthering them as a minority" is a flawed argument. if you promote these secondary characters and surround it with a quality team, then they will NO LONGER be "secondary" characters, and be "A-list." it doesn't matter the character, only the right creative team. 10 years ago if you would've told SHH that we'd get a TV show about the scarlet witch marrying her robot husband and having a family life, you'd be laughed at. hell not even 10 years ago, 7 years ago. all it takes is the right team. and in 5 years you could have the Next Big Thing™

but with JJ, there is 100% going to be the "controlled" vision to play things safe. and with coates there is going to be lip service and surface addressing of issues but will leave nobody happy

the more i think about it, the more i think coates might be a worse fit for a black superman than JJ as the producer (unless he does end up directing)

the MCU hasn't done what the argument is. they haven't limited minority characters to their specific franchises. that's the entire point of a shared universe, anybody can show up anywhere

falcon, kamala khan, shang-chi, riri williams, monica rambeau, and of course black panther.


nobody is saying that if you make a john stewart movie, he is only limited to that, he can show up anywhere. same for static, mr. terrific, etc. but you're never going to get that if you keep defaulting back to reskinning superman, batman, etc.
 
Unless this film is as good as IM or Avengers and wom draws folks in, I'm pretty skeptical of it's chances.
I'm basing this on the seemingly divided fan base, which is NEVER a good thing.
A superman film should unite us all, not divide us ( BvsS ).
Here's hoping they hit a grand slam with it.
 
Oh geez...literally every announcement for every film divide's the fanbase. No offense but that just doesn't fly.

I will say it again...one of the most heralded musicals that is a historical account of the Founding of the USA uses POC to play almost all of the parts. George Washington, in the version that I saw was an Asian! Black People play the stodgiest of White People in American History! These are mythological figures in American History that trounce Superman...and yet everyone is willing to accept it. You know why, because it isn't really that big of a deal.

If Black Superman comes to pass yes there will be controversy for a bit. Racists will whine, people who pretend they aren't racist but agree with all of the racist tropes will bend themselves into pretzels, and the vast majority will just wait and see. If the film is good it won't matter. Then once it has happened and people see it, it won't even affect them going forward. That is how it always works in these situations.

And the Will Smith quote about Wild Wild West is just ridiculous. Most of the people seeing that film had no clue Jim West was a White Guy. People old enough to be fans of that show were hardly the target audience. (it was young Will Smith fans) The reason that movie failed was it was an epic piece of trash and he sucked in it. I am sure he got a lot of flack from older White People about it, but that movie would have done much better if it had in fact been a decent movie.
 
I disagree. MoS was divided, especially so with the suit and the choice of Lex.
SR was, so was GL, BvS was, especially so once Images leaked out of doomsday.
Don't even get me started on JL.

I've been around enough to know when films start out divided early, it usually doesn't end well.
That said, I'm willing to wait and see how it plays out, but so far, I'm not getting any warm and fuzzies.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"