The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread

[dhandler01]

My point is that the black superman should have his own identity and history just like Miles Morales.

Gotcha. Not a big deal to me but I see your point.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

Val-Zod is basically Miles Morales to the Superman mythos. Both are inspired by the main version of the hero, but both have their own unique origin story and style. While Calvin is literally just an elseworlds race swap inspired by Obama, I think Val is way more complete and organic, and probably more interesting to make a story out of.

Val-Zod IMO is the perfect guy to use if you wanted to continue down what Snyder was doing (Knightmare world) and not only that he already has a love interest in Power Girl.

 

[Frodo]

Fair enough mate. I can see your argument here and I do concede that what you are saying could be true. I am not in the US, so perhaps I see things differently. but in Europe most of the people I know who are DC fans are just upset about Cavill and the way Warner are making these decisions, the motivations etc. I am not claiming they are representative or a monolith. I don't speak for anyone except myself here and my belief based on the things ive chatted about with mates.

Well, in The US , alot of the fan anger is very much about race. Alot of them are enraged by the idea of a Black Man playing Superman. Then again , issues of race are always a heated subject whether in Politics, Entertainment, or just everyday life.

I gotta say , I don't know the European fan perspective on it . I've been a fan of Cavill since The Tudors, and as a U.S. African American, I was basically defending Cavill for MOS when most American Fanboys tore him apart. Warner Brothers totally screwed him, that's true. They did the same to Routh as well.

I can at least respect the perspective that Cavill should have been given his due.

Unfortunately, the reality is , that here in the U.S., alot of the anger and vitriol is about the idea of a Black man taking on the Superman mantle and not so much about Cavill getting another shot.

That's why the American discourse over this project is filled with slogans along the lines of " They're trying to fill a Quota", "It's too PC" ,"etc. and talk of " They should exploit Black heroes in instead of letting Black actors play White Heroes".

I wish the discourse here was more like the discourse with your friends.

 

[Prison Mike]

I don’t know, I wouldn’t really go by what the fan reaction is online. They represent just a fraction of the overall moviegoing audience. They’re just a loud minority, especially if you spend a lot of time online. I doubt the general audience is even aware that they’re planning a Superman reboot let alone a Black Superman.

 

[Frodo]

I don’t know, I wouldn’t really go by what the fan reaction is online. They represent just a fraction of the overall moviegoing audience. They’re just a loud minority, especially if you spend a lot of time online. I doubt the general audience is even aware that they’re planning a Superman reboot let alone a Black Superman.

I was talking about Online fandom in the US specifically. I wasn't talking the GA.

The general audience is probably alot more open to the idea than alot of diehard fanboys are, who represent a vocal minority.

I was talking about what I've heard from Fanboys in the U.S., and the reason they've stated they don't want a Black Superman.

Race is a touchy subject in the U.S. regardless of fandom or not. But the anger over the potential of a Black actor playing Superman, is pretty much being expressed by fanboys, who yes, are in the minority.

Most people won't even know there's gonna be a Black Superman until the actor is cast, and that's probably gonna be a year away.

 

[Marvel united]

Well, in The US , alot of the fan anger is very much about race. Alot of them are enraged by the idea of a Black Man playing Superman. Then again , issues of race are always a heated subject whether in Politics, Entertainment, or just everyday life.

I gotta say , I don't know the European fan perspective on it . I've been a fan of Cavill since The Tudors, and as a U.S. African American, I was basically defending Cavill for MOS when most American Fanboys tore him apart. Warner Brothers totally screwed him, that's true. They did the same to Routh as well.

I can at least respect the perspective that Cavill should have been given his due.

Unfortunately, the reality is , that here in the U.S., alot of the anger and vitriol is about the idea of a Black man taking on the Superman mantle and not so much about Cavill getting another shot.

That's why the American discourse over this project is filled with slogans along the lines of " They're trying to fill a Quota", "It's too PC" ,"etc. and talk of " They should exploit Black heroes in instead of letting Black actors play White Heroes".

I wish the discourse here was more like the discourse with your friends.

And you can tell by how people try to mask their dislike of a Black actor in a role with arguments like "They should just use Black characters" or "WB is shelving Black heroes for race bended ones"-- the latter which is demonstrably false. Considering a Static Shock movie is in development as well as the John Stewart GL project. The reality is, WB is doing both. And a Black Superman doesn't cancel out these characters nor vice-versa... Unless ofc, you're relegating the value of their individual storylines down to their race. There's no reason why multiple black characters can't co-exist

And It's funny how these people talk about a "virtue signalling" as if they aren't doing the same thing with characters like Val Zod and Calvin Ellis As if they actually care about these two, and aren't just concern trolling for "underutilized" black characters.

 

[Prison Mike]

I was talking about Online fandom in the US specifically. I wasn't talking the GA.

The general audience is probably alot more open to the idea than alot of diehard fanboys are, who represent a vocal minority.

I was talking about what I've heard from Fanboys in the U.S., and the reason they've stated they don't want a Black Superman.

Race is a touchy subject in the U.S. regardless of fandom or not. But the anger over the potential of a Black actor playing Superman, is pretty much being expressed by fanboys, who yes, are in the minority.

Most people won't even know there's gonna be a Black Superman until the actor is cast, and that's probably gonna be a year away.

Yeah like I said, the online fandom is such a small minority, I wouldn’t really take them seriously. If you’re online most of the time then I’m sure it can seem like they speak for the entire country but they don’t.

 

[Celgress]

In his latest video, my friend gets super spicey about this project's latest rumor. He throws in everything from the 1990s Clone Saga to Black Lagoon (Anime). Well worth a watch, IMO -

 

[TheFuture]

Don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see them do something a bit different and not have Lois as the love interest. Either use Lana or develop an entirely new character.

The whole love interest thing I could do without in this genre for awhile. By all means have a female character on equal footing, but that doesn't mean she has to be a romantic interest.

Life is about more than just romance and characters ending up together and I feel movies should reflect that.

 

[C Prometheus]

Honestly I'm really excited for this film so far. I like that Abrams and Coates are swinging for the fences here and going for something different with Superman. Obviously there are a number of ways that this could turn out poorly, but there's also A LOT of potential to get things really right here too.

I think we'll have a better idea of what kind of film to probably expect once the director is announced. If they select someone like Shaka King, Barry Jenkins or Regina King, this could wind up being a huge critical success and something very special among the superhero genre of films.

I know I've said it before and all, but I'm rooting for them to nab Shaka King to direct this. His star is on the rise now after Judas and the Black Messiah and WB will probably want to capitalize on that soon, because Marvel will do their damnedest to do so too and as quickly as possible, I think.

 

[Nemeres]

Imagining a movie set in the 1930s, with the hats and newspaperboys and mobsters and Depression era themes, then a costumed superpowered man thrown in the middle of it, is a hell of a yummy thought. I just wonder how sequel-friendly it is. In other superhero period pieces, they always hop through the decades, but Superman's supporting cast doesn't allow for that as much. Do they set camp in the 30/40s for film after film? Do they feature WW2 and do a Captain America? I think there's a lot of cool there, but I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped that idea.

 

[dhandler01]

I think people are hung up on the "period piece" as meaning it will take place in the 1930s and 40s. It could take place in the 60s and be a period piece. It could take place in multiple eras because he is, after all, Kryptonian. He could spend decades walking amongst the people and meet most of his primary cast later.

There is a lot of potential there no matter when they plan to do it. Since this isn't tied to any continuity (which is good cause continuity ruins creativity) they can tell whatever story they want. I mean he could crash land in the 40s and travel the world for decades instead of the usual 10 years or so. He could be like the immortals in Highlander, showing up in various time frames to become who he is.

 

[Nemeres]

It's very true that it doesn't have to be the 30s. The 60s would be fantastic, maybe a chance to be more Silver Age-y. But I remember "the early comics" being mentioned as a reference. That might be in flux still.

 

[Boy Scout]

The article in question mentioned that there was a possibility it would be a period piece. It's possible that it'll ultimately end up taking place in a contemporary setting. Personally, I think the latter is more likely.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I said it in another thread but it’s going to be weird if they make this a period piece.

If you put Black Superman in the 30s or 40s, having him predate the Civil Rights Movement and all that, it’s going to be odd seeing a world herald a black man with superpowers while black people across the country are being persecuted and discriminated against.

But this is all about suspending your belief anyway.

 

[Boy Scout]

I said it in another thread but it’s going to be weird if they make this a period piece.

If you put Black Superman in the 30s or 40s, having him predate the Civil Rights Movement and all that, it’s going to be odd seeing a world herald a black man with superpowers while black people across the country are being persecuted and discriminated against.

But this is all about suspending your belief anyway.

They most likely wouldn't. It'd be pretty pointless - if not outright counterproductive - to set the film in that time period and have it essentially be business as usual as far as Superman's relationship with the public. The only way I see that working is if Coates specifically wants to talk about white folks liking/tolerating some black people some of the time ("You're not really black." "You're not like the rest of them." "He may be a *slur* but he's our *slur.*"). And that would be...a choice.

He'd be a controversial, publicly hated figure. Unless they're going full fantasy, but at that point, the time period wouldn't even matter.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

They most likely wouldn't. It'd be pretty pointless - if not outright counterproductive - to set the film in that time period and have it essentially be business as usual as far as Superman's relationship with the public. The only way I see that working is if Coates specifically wants to talk about white folks liking/tolerating some black people some of the time ("You're not really black." "You're not like the rest of them." "He may be a *slur* but he's our *slur.*"). And that would be...a choice.

He'd be a controversial, publicly hated figure. Unless they're going full fantasy, but at that point, the time period wouldn't even matter.

Oh my God you could just hear them saying that. But yeah framing it that far back is going to be madd counterproductive. They’d be lynching us in the outskirts of Smallville in one scene, and then having Supes rescuing a white girl from a burning building in the next. This could be one cringe fest of a movie about gaining white acceptance.

Ugh. Just keep him in the present and use your imagination from there I say.

 

[Boy Scout]

Oh my God you could just hear them saying that. But yeah framing it that far back is going to be madd counterproductive. They’d be lynching us in the outskirts of Smallville in one scene, and then having Supes rescuing a white girl from a burning building in the next. This could be one cringe fest of a movie about gaining white acceptance.

Yep, that's exactly right. I don't think Coates would be that foolish. Again, I don't think this'll be a period piece, but if it is, I'd bet $3.50 it'll be set in the 50's or 60's at the earliest.

Ugh. Just keep him in the present and use your imagination from there I say.

That'd be my preference.

 

[Marvel united]

They most likely wouldn't. It'd be pretty pointless - if not outright counterproductive - to set the film in that time period and have it essentially be business as usual as far as Superman's relationship with the public. The only way I see that working is if Coates specifically wants to talk about white folks liking/tolerating some black people some of the time ("You're not really black." "You're not like the rest of them." "He may be a *slur* but he's our *slur.*"). And that would be...a choice.

He'd be a controversial, publicly hated figure. Unless they're going full fantasy, but at that point, the time period wouldn't even matter.

Honestly, that could be very interesting if done right. This film is probably gonna have a focus on race, and how the world, and White America specifically, reacts to the most powerful man in the world being black. Setting it in a time where the very idea of that is outrageous and incomprehensible, opens the door to the themes you mentioned, and so many more, that could be relevent even now.

Yep, that's exactly right. I don't think Coates would be that foolish. Again, I don't think this'll be a period piece, but if it is, I'd bet $3.50 it'll be set in the 50's or 60's at the earliest.



That'd be my preference.

50s-60s is such random setting to root a Superman period piece imo. It'd be like making a period piece Fantastic Four but setting it in the 80s instead of the 60s, y'know, the times the characters were originally meant to capture with the Space Age & the 60s nuclear family.

It seems you'd prefer the 60s because there'd be slightly less racism directed towards Kal-El.. But I don't see this ever being a motive for Coates, especially when he'd have no problem tackling the racist questions that a Black Superman would beg in such a violently racist time. Coates would capitalize on this aspect if anything, not shy away from it

The idea of Superman being black in such an intolerant setting is much more interesting imo, because of that.

 

[JannTosh]

Personally have zero interest in this. We already have a fine Superman in Cavill so why do we need a new one? This is like replacing Captain America with Falcon after the first Avengers movies, and JJ Abrams and Tahnehisi Coates? No thanks

 

[Boy Scout]

Honestly, that could be very interesting if done right.

It could be. I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand. But I think, it terms of it being the central racial conflict of the movie, I think it would be an odd choice. It'd make more sense to me if it was discussed as part of a wider criticism of racism and/or racist attitudes.

50s-60s is such random setting to root a Superman period piece imo.

Uh...what? It's when the Civil Rights Movement happened.

It seems you'd prefer the 60s because there'd be slightly less racism directed towards Kal-El.

Incorrect. It just doesn't make sense to me to go that far back because, unless the movie decides to operate on fantasy logic (which is perfectly fine, but makes the time period irrelevant) or makes Superman a Killmonger who isn't stopped, Clark is very unlikely to be able to change anything for decades. It's actually more likely that he'd make things infinitely worse.

The idea of Superman being black in such an intolerant setting is much more interesting imo, because of that.

I respect that. I feel the opposite.

 

[C Prometheus]

Honestly, that could be very interesting if done right. This film is probably gonna have a focus on race, and how the world, and White America specifically, reacts to the most powerful man in the world being black. Setting it in a time where the very idea of that is outrageous and incomprehensible, opens the door to the themes you mentioned, and so many more, that could be relevent even now.

Especially since you know that Superman wouldn't stand idly by if he saw White Americans "accepting" him begrudgingly, but continue to mistreat other Black citizens. He'd call out the hypocrisy.

50s-60s is such random setting to root a Superman period piece imo. It'd be like making a period piece Fantastic Four but setting it in the 80s instead of the 60s, y'know, the times the characters were originally meant to capture with the Space Age & the 60s nuclear family.

It seems you'd prefer the 60s because there'd be slightly less racism directed towards Kal-El.. But I don't see this ever being a motive for Coates, especially when he'd have no problem tackling the racist questions that a Black Superman would beg in such a violently racist time. Coates would capitalize on this aspect if anything, not shy away from it

The idea of Superman being black in such an intolerant setting is much more interesting imo, because of that.

I can't agree with the idea that the 50's-60's would be a "less racist" time period to put Kal-El in. Especially when we had J Edgar Hoover targeting and assassinating men like Fred Hampton even after the Civil Rights Movement, in the fear of a "Black Messiah" coming up and uniting people of all ethnicities together to support his cause. A Black Superman in that time frame would immediately be seen as a potential target by Hoover IMO.

 

[Alien Anal]

It was this trailer that made me really dig the idea of a black Superman set in the 50s

 

[Marvel united]

It could be. I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand. But I think, it terms of it being the central racial conflict of the movie, I think it would be an odd choice. It'd make more sense to me if it was discussed as part of a wider criticism of racism and/or racist attitudes.

That's what I was thinking. One of many themes in the film

Uh...what? It's when the Civil Rights Movement happened.

Of the course the 60s was a major milestone in Black history. But I'm more referring to the character's history, Superman's. What the 30s means for him.

It's no secret that before the news was announced that they'd be going with Black actor, I was partial to the idea of a Superman film set in the 1930s. Instead of trying to find a way to make him "relevant", why not just embrace Superman's roots, and take him back to the time he was conceived; rediscover what made him such an Icon

And I think doing that with a Black actor makes it even more worth exploring, as a deconstruction of the themes and values that define the character; a deconstruction of America. Imagine a movie set in the middle of, or at the very end of the great depression... But with a Black Superman. The possibilities are endless

Plus the 30s haven't explored in a tentpole blockbuster in awhile. It gives this film a unique feel

Incorrect. It just doesn't make sense to me to go that far back because, unless the movie decides to operate on fantasy logic (which is perfectly fine, but makes the time period irrelevant) or makes Superman a Killmonger who isn't stopped, Clark is very unlikely to be able to change anything for decades. It's actually more likely that he'd make things infinitely worse.



I respect that. I feel the opposite.

Especially since you know that Superman wouldn't stand idly by if he saw White Americans "accepting" him begrudgingly, but continue to mistreat other Black citizens. He'd call out the hypocrisy.



I can't agree with the idea that the 50's-60's would be a "less racist" time period to put Kal-El in. Especially when we had J Edgar Hoover targeting and assassinating men like Fred Hampton even after the Civil Rights Movement, in the fear of a "Black Messiah" coming up and uniting people of all ethnicities together to support his cause. A Black Superman in that time frame would immediately be seen as a potential target by Hoover IMO.

I think it really depends on the type of message Coates wants the film to have. I think a micro message of hope and perseverance would make sense for a 30s-set film. Even though society as a whole is racist against Clark, there would be individuals like Lois, and Jimmy, and even groups of people, who give Clark the fuel he needs to keep fighting.

I know Shinobi raised concerns about the film being about white acceptance, but I don't think the message has to be framed like that. It can be more about the strength & perseverance of the Black community; how we've been put through so much ****, how we've been burned, beaten, enslaved... But yet, we're still here. We've persevered through all of that (not without great sacrifices ofc), and we still fight.

Clark is constantly beaten down by society... Yet he stands, and keeps fighting no matter what. Because he has to. I think it's fresh way to tie into that theme of hope that feels relevent

The fight for justice is neverending, even for Supeman.

 

[Boy Scout]

That's what I was thinking. One of many themes in the film

Of the course the 60s was a major milestone in Black history. But I'm more referring to the character's history, Superman's. What the 30s means for him.

Oh, okay, understood. I would still prefer setting the film around the Civil Rights era though.

It's no secret that before the news was announced that they'd be going with Black actor, I was partial to the idea of a Superman film set in the 1930s. Instead of trying to find a way to make him "relevant", why not just embrace Superman's roots, and take him back to the time he was conceived; rediscover what made him such an Icon

I fundamentally reject the idea that Superman isn’t still relevant today.

And I think doing that with a Black actor makes it even more worth exploring, as a deconstruction of the themes and values that define the character; a deconstruction of America. Imagine a movie set in the middle of, or at the very end of the great depression... But with a Black Superman. The possibilities are endless

I dunno, man. I hear what you’re saying and I won’t complain too much if we find out that’s where they’re going with this, but unless the film is all about Superman confronting the realities of racism, with nary a supervillain to speak of, I think I’d find the time period more distracting than anything else.

I think it really depends on the type of message Coates wants the film to have. I think a micro message of hope and perseverance would make sense for a 30s-set film. Even though society as a whole is racist against Clark, there would be individuals like Lois, and Jimmy, and even groups of people, who give Clark the fuel he needs to keep fighting.

I don’t think it’s a message exclusive to that era, though. And I would argue that setting the film a little further in the future will allow Superman to progress forward with his people. JMO.