The Dark Knight The Dark Knight General Discussion Thread

[Lily Adler]

All things TDK and what you liked about the film.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Everything, honestly.

 

[antsman41]

 

[Sawyer]

Not quite the same level of giddiness that that first FanDome trailer for The Batman gives me, but I still remember how thrilled I was to hear Heath’s Joker voice for the first time.

 

[squeekness]

This is my most favorite Batman movie, ever. I recall being dubious at the idea of Heath as the Joker, but wow, he blew it out of the park.

 

[Sawyer]

Gimme that goddamn Joker, Todd.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I'm so, so tired of comic book sites writing articles pinning The Batman against this film.

But more so, I'm so...beyond...tired of reading these things -

- "Take The Joker out of it, and The Dark Knight isn't as good!!!%@Q%@!"
- "It's a great MOVIE, but not a great BATMAN movie!"
- "It's not really a Batman movie. It's a Joker movie."
- "Heath carried that movie. He's the only good thing about it."

Umm. Why would you remove a main character from a film? That's like saying "Take chocolate chips out of chocolate chip cookies and it isn't as good of a cookie!" as if that's some sort of zinger-take down of the value of chocolate chip cookies.

Would Temple of Doom be as good without Mola Ram? Would Toy Story be as good without Buzz? Would baseball be as good without the ball?

It makes ZERO sense to think its a slight to say something would be different with the removal of a critical part. It's just...true.

Two, Batman has been made 1,000 different ways by now. There's nothing about The Batman that is more 'Batman' to me than the Nolanverse. It may be more of the vibe I love about Batman, but Nolan's Batman is just as 'Batman' as any other.

Three, how is it remotely a Joker film? The Joker was on screen for 25 minutes out of a 2 hour and 32 minute film. How is that remotely a 'Joker' film? It makes no logical sense.

The film is about Batman/Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent before it's 'about' The Joker. The Joker is a driving force in the story of Bruce/Harvey's arcs. The Joker is a force/tool more.

I don't get how anyone can say it's a Joker film.

Four, I don't get this retroactive 'suckifying' of this film. As if the editing, the pacing, script, action and scale is somehow lacking and sucks, but thank God Heath made this mess watchable.

What gives?

So sick of this film and series being torn down because we need to prop The Batman up.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Honestly, and I don't mean to sound like I'm dogging on The Batmans fanbase too much, but for a lot the current generation, that movie is their first Batman movie experience. So because of that, some can't stand knowing that TDK (and the whole trilogy for that matter) is still considered the gold standard of the genre even over 10 years after it ended. That's typically normal with fanbases, but it's no less annoying. People try to find some way to discredit the success or impact a movie had to the point where their arguments hold no water. Take Darth Vader out of Star Wars, you cease to have a movie, so removing the Joker from TDK literally makes no sense because you wouldn't have a film. my advice to those people? If you can't stand seeing the praise for the movie all of these years, then stop talking about comic book movies. Because every new cbm that comes out and is widely praised is always compared immediately to TDK, and until TDK is dethroned, which I doubt will ever happen, that will not stop.

Also, if you love a new Batman movie more than TDK, then why not just say that? Why try to start arguments that hold no water and make it seem like you're insecure about your favorite version instead of just saying you prefer it? Makes no sense to me.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Honestly, and I don't mean to sound like I'm dogging on The Batmans fanbase too much, but for a lot the current generation, that movie is their first Batman movie experience. So because of that, they can't stand knowing that TDK (and the whole trilogy for that matter) is still considered the gold standard of the genre even over 10 years after it ended.

They come of as startlingly insecure. And I don't dislike The Batman, either. It was that film that led me to revisit and rediscover my love of the Nolan films, actually.

With that film, though - fans seem so, so desperate to prove its worth. The go on endlessly about the cinematography, look, the feel, vibe, style and such of the film - anything other than the script and writing, though - which is the #1 thing that makes the film iffy, for me.

The Snyder fans are cut from the same cloth, too - of having to constantly shove it in people's faces that their film(s) are 'great' and 'better'.

And I think that Batman, since Nolan, has fostered this shame about the source material.

What I mean is, is that The Batman attracts the Batman fan who wants people to know 'Batman is a seeerwious character for seeerwious ppl!' That Batman films can't have levity, humour or God forbid a funny line.

That even darker = better. The edgelord inclination.

I don't want Batman to attract that type of fanbase. Batman can be so many different things. For me, I much prefer darker/twisted Batman - but that's not all he can be and I don't want to limit it.

The Affleck fans (and I love Affleck's Batman) are the same way.

 

[Herofan]

Three, how is it remotely a Joker film? The Joker was on screen for 25 minutes out of a 2 hour and 32 minute film. How is that remotely a 'Joker' film? It makes no logical sense.

The film is about Batman/Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent before it's 'about' The Joker. The Joker is a driving force in the story of Bruce/Harvey's arcs. The Joker is a force/tool more.

I don't get how anyone can say it's a Joker film.

The movie *was really* about the villains!!!!!1!!1! has long been a frequent complaint about most of the other movies, and generally is a fair complaint although not some overwhelming devastating complaint, I think it's much more surprising that it being made against TDK did not happen for so long. Yes being the driving force is a big part about what the story and film is about, especially when Harvey is a huge or bigger focus too.

Four, I don't get this retroactive 'suckifying' of this film. As if the editing, the pacing, script, action and scale is somehow lacking and sucks, but thank God Heath made this mess watchable.

What gives?

The rest doesn't suck but I do think Bale is a lot less good and effective as Bruce than in BB as is/because the writing of Bruce was less well-done.

The Snyder fans are cut from the same cloth, too - of having to constantly shove it in people's faces that their film(s) are 'great' and 'better'.

A lot of the reactions/interactions they get, even when they say that they are good or great but not necessarily better, do seem to be that only Reeve Superman and/or Bale Batman are acceptable, the only right versions, the only way they should be done.

 

[FunkMiller]

I felt that in the months after The Dark Knight that it would never, ever be topped as a comic book cinematic experience.

Nothing in the intervening 14 years has changed my mind on that.

It remains the greatest cbm ever made, Chris Nolan's greatest movie, and genuinely a masterpiece of cinema.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Not quite the same level of giddiness that that first FanDome trailer for The Batman gives me, but I still remember how thrilled I was to hear Heath’s Joker voice for the first time.

“Why does the Joker sound Texan. I hate it. Movies gonna suck”.

 

[antsman41]

Gimme that goddamn Joker, Todd.

Meh... the sculpt will be 1/3 as good as my MAFEX Joker, Bank Robber Joker, and TDK Batman.

 

[Sawyer]

Meh... the sculpt will be 1/3 as good as my MAFEX Joker, Bank Robber Joker, and TDK Batman.

But at a fraction of the price. Which is my main thing tbh. I don’t need an exact Heath Ledger clone shrunk down and watching me from a shelf. A decent approximation is good enough for me.

 

[Sawyer]

“Why does the Joker sound Texan. I hate it. Movies gonna suck”.

I remember one of my first thoughts being that he almost sounded like Keaton’s Beetlejuice. And that immediately worked for me.

 

[Brother Jack]

It was the nasally, almost stereotypical "nerdy" voice that did it for me. It was so radically different to how Joker had ever sounded, in addition to him looking radically different to how Joker had ever looked.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I felt that in the months after The Dark Knight that it would never, ever be topped as a comic book cinematic experience.

Nothing in the intervening 14 years has changed my mind on that.

It remains the greatest cbm ever made, Chris Nolan's greatest movie, and genuinely a masterpiece of cinema.

Its insane how the movie has managed to remain leagues above anything released ever since. That's the one time in my life I knew I was watching history be made in the cinema. It feels so long ago now, but it's still one of the greatest films ever made in my opinion. The best CBM and a perfect example of THE summer blockbuster.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember one of my first thoughts being that he almost sounded like Keaton’s Beetlejuice. And that immediately worked for me.

"I'm a man of my weeerrrdd-uhh". You can definitely hear the similarity there.

There were a lot of Beetlejuice comparisons as I recall, even with his appearance. And yup, I was also like "sounds good to me!", seeing as Beetlejuice was always proof that Keaton could've been just a good a Joker as he was a Batman. In the end I don't think the comparison with Heath is that strong and it was definitely its own distinct thing.

 

[Kane52630]

I don't know if this was ever discussed (I'm sure it has), but with the scene of the Joker planting those bombs on the ferries... I'm pretty sure if they did detonate, it would be for their own boat, not the other boat like he said over the PA. Joker already switched up the addresses for Harvey and Rachel so why not do the same for the boats? It's definitely a joke that he would like.

 

[antsman41]

I don't know if this was ever discussed (I'm sure it has), but with the scene of the Joker planting those bombs on the ferries... I'm pretty sure if they did detonate, it would be for their own boat, not the other boat like he said over the PA. Joker already switched up the addresses for Harvey and Rachel so why not do the same for the boats? It's definitely a joke that he would like.

That's how I always believed it as well, due to this line...

" If, however, one of you presses the button, I'll let that boat live."

Plus, the line below is hilarious because he stating the elite are as worse as the criminals.

"You choose... oh, and you might want to decide quickly, because the people on the other boat might not be so noble."

 

[Kane52630]

Not quite the same level of giddiness that that first FanDome trailer for The Batman gives me, but I still remember how thrilled I was to hear Heath’s Joker voice for the first time.

All the trailers were solid, but the one trailer that I always go back to happens to be a throwaway trailer that was made for Domino's.

 

[Sawyer]

All the trailers were solid, but the one trailer that I always go back to happens to be a throwaway trailer that was made for Domino's.

I enjoyed that, but I’m not gonna lie, the “You had plans. Look where that got you” bit playing over the Bruce/Rachel stuff almost makes it feel like a romantic comedy where Joker is Batman’s BFF talking him through a break-up.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah lol, the unused bits and pieces in the Dominos trailer are gold, but its actual editing is pretty amateurish.



This is the best TDK trailer IMO, not even close. The first real look at Ledger's Joker, and the thing that nearly instantly shut down all the doubters. Crazy how it dropped only weeks before he passed. I remember just watching this thing endlessly, probably daily from December 07 all the way up to the release. It just set the stage perfectly for an epic Batman/Joker showdown.

I actually think Ledger's delivery of "HIT ME" in this trailer is even scarier and more intense than the one used in the film.

 

[antsman41]

...What I would give to fold time and let Ledger's Joker face-off with Pattinson's Batman.

 

[BatLobster]

...What I would give to fold time and let Ledger's Joker face-off with Pattinson's Batman.