Falcon and Winter Soldier The Falcon and the Winter Soldier General Discussion

[Dr. Evil]

 

[The Caped Knight]

I'm slightly unsure about this the writing wasn't the best. I preferred the writing Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely from the trilogy. They found a balance of nailing Steve Rogers character.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I'm slightly unsure about this the writing wasn't the best. I preferred the writing Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely from the trilogy. They found a balance of nailing Steve Rogers character.

Spellman's writing feels almost like Nick Spencer's run from Captain America, which is both a good and bad thing. They're good in that they have very strong comic sensibilities but bad in that they can get heavy-handed and preachy with certain topics.

 

[Mysteryman]

Curious about where this goes. And, how quickly it gets made.

 

[djsunyc]

Curious about where this goes. And, how quickly it gets made.

earliest would probably be 2024.

 

[DyeLorean]

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit worried with the amount of projects they're developing. I doubt Kevin Feige can handle all of that, so I really hope there isn't a drop in quality from now on.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit worried with the amount of projects they're developing. I doubt Kevin Feige can handle all of that, so I really hope there isn't a drop in quality from now on.

He probably spends like a few days on each set but I would guess folks like Nate Moore and Victoria Alonzo are there everyday.

 

[djsunyc]

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit worried with the amount of projects they're developing. I doubt Kevin Feige can handle all of that, so I really hope there isn't a drop in quality from now on.

i think we have to remind ourselves that this was put on hiatus and had to finish while covid was still going strong and before the vaccines. my guess is alot of stuff for both this and wandavision had to be altered and compromises had to be made...and taking that into account, we still got some quality product. i think this gives me more faith in mcu to think they could put this out during something so crazy.

 

[DyeLorean]

I mean in general, there are SO MANY things announced, that even I am like "mmm really? do we really need that one?"
I'm hopeful though, both WandaVision and Falcon & Winter Soldier were a good start. Not perfect, maybe not so great either, but overall they were a nice step into episodic storytelling.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I mean in general, there are SO MANY things announced, that even I am like "mmm really? do we really need that one?"
I'm hopeful though, both WandaVision and Falcon & Winter Soldier were a good start. Not perfect, maybe not so great either, but overall they were a nice step into episodic storytelling.

Both shows were mini-series though leading to other projects, that's the objective for most of the Disney+ shows. Others like She Hulk and Hawkeye will likely close the book on two OG Avengers as Hulk and Barton are probably headed to retirement (I strongly believe that we'll see both of them on the big screen together once more in Black Widow in a Mid or Post Credits scene).

 

[Vlyse]

I started binging this today and I'm about to finish EP4 and I'm paying as much attention to it as I do when I watch anything from The CW. It feels like (budget aside) it belongs on there.

Bucky with short hair is just Carter Baizen to me. I like Bucky and Sam's stories but there's too much else going on that seems insignificant (like The CW), especially the Flagsmashers and Sharon. It would've worked better if it was 20-30min series like WandaVision.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Something I thought was strange about the series was how they had the same senator ruling over Walker's court martial, leading the US' GRC delegation, and pardoning Sharon. That seems like a lot of power for one senator. Plus, senators don't preside over military court martials; the military's own judicial system does that.

 

[antsman41]

Anyone who doesn’t believe in Kevin Feige at this point, is trying too hard not to.

 

[The Overlord]

Right?! If I heard of a group called the Flagsmashers causing trouble, my master plan would be to give them all Snickers and Doritos.

Run along children.

I don't know what to tell you, that's the guy's name in the comics:

Flag-Smasher - Wikipedia

Flag Smasher's group in the comics is called U.L.T.I.M.A.T.U.M.: The Underground Liberated Totally Integrated Mobile Army To Unite Mankind, that is a very convoluted name, Flag Smashera is more simple. Karli is supposed to 19 years old, so maybe she does think the name Flag Smashers is cool.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So was anyone surprised Thunderbolt Ross didn't show up?

 

[metaphysician]

I agree that The Flag Smashers aren't the most interesting or compelling villians, but I'm not hating them either, although I do wonder just how much better this show could have been if Zemo was the main threat instead. Daniel Bruhl is just far more engaging to watch whenever he's on screen.

Zemo was engaging, yes, but how much of his engagement hinged on extended periods of being able to interact with the two main heroes? That's more than a bit harder to arrange if he's the Main Villain.

As for the Flagsmashers, honestly they mostly worked for me. Yes, they kind of came off as a bunch of dumb kids who barely had a clue what they were doing, but. . . you know, that actually describes a *lot* of would-be revolutionaries through history. And the fact that they were rapidly slipping into increasing and counterproductive levels of violence is. . . also kind of historically accurate. I don't think they were meant to be compellingly villainous, so much as dumb schmucks who don't realize the trouble they've caused for themselves and others. The main issue is the vagueness of their cause, wherein you only eventually figure out what their cause *is* ( People freely immigrating during the Blip, and now being sent back post-Blip with inadequate support or consideration ). This makes it harder to grapple with them on any level *above* "dumb kids", because its unclear what you might or might not sympathize with them over.

Also, I kind of wish Sam called Karli out during the first big negotiation with something along the lines of "So, you basically think the world was better off with about four billion people dead, huh?" Basically make explicit, to the audience *and to Karli* ( who clearly did not realize it ), the fatal flaw of her movement's ideology- its implicit basis in mass death. Yes, the GRC aren't showing enough support or care about the people they are trying to send back to their countries of origin post-Blip, but Karli's response is only about one and a half steps away from "Killing people by the billions is worthwhile if it makes *my* life better". . . or possibly "You should have stayed dead, so its okay to kill you as a non-person". This wasn't where the Flagsmasher ethos was *currently*, but it is totally where they would have eventually landed if they continued on their downward slide.

 

[legendkillin]

Overall for me I give the season a 7.5/10 it was solid, the Sam and Bucky stuff was the best along with Zemo returning. I just didn't care for the Flag Smashers, I understood their cause but I just wanted a bit more charisma from them. Usually a big movement like that will have someone leading that has a bit of a swagger and not just the cause that can convince people.

If they don't do a spin off or something involving Sharon, US Agent, or the Val lady I think they become wasted. They could have used the time spent from Sharon on other things, but I do expect some spin off if Sam and Bucky are not involved.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I am most interested in their reactions towards Blade since he's half vampire (or at least he should be in the comics).

An MCU character is eventually going to go "so Earth has vampires now" just like when Thor said "so Earth has wizards now" when seeing Dr. Strange for the first time.

 

[legendkillin]

I am most interested in their reactions towards Blade since he's half vampire (or at least he should be in the comics).

An MCU character is eventually going to go "so Earth has vampires now" just like when Thor said "so Earth has wizards now" when seeing Dr. Strange for the first time.

Yeah the vampire thing is going to need some explaining considering how long the MCU goes back. You would expect someone would have a bit of knowledge on them. Unless he comes from a different universe or comes whenever mutants arrive. I love Blade though so looking forward to that.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

6/10

Worth watching for the fights alone. MCU completionists will find a lot to love. Wyatt Russell and Daniel Bruhl steal the show as John Walker and Baron Zemo. This wasn’t quite up to par with the other Captain America films. I think the writing was a bit lackluster and drawn out. I skipped every scene with the boat. Also, the Flagsmashers are some of the least interesting villains in the MCU. With a reduced runtime this would score higher. Definitely worth a watch, especially to see how it advances the ever-expanding MCU. But I don’t see myself wanting to watch it again any time soon.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[DoomRulz]

(11) The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Pitch Meeting - YouTube

I loved this. It didn't occur to me that...yeah, the Flagsmashers' "plan" was...what, exactly? And I do think that, while Sam's final monologue was very Captain America-esque, the logistical issues the suits raised weren't dismissible, much less with a simple, "do better, Senator".

 

[Dark Raven]

While it looks good and comic accurate, would that headpiece still fit around his head if the neckpiece weren't there or would it slip down? And if it didn't have the neckpiece, what is the purpose of having just a bit going round his head like that but not covering the top like a helmet? Is it a mask?

I'm guessing the mask has to be purely aesthetic though and serves no functional purpose. Why would he need one when he's not protecting any secret identity, and everyone who saw him the first time immediately knew it was Sam Wilson aka the Falcon? There is no-one who asked "who is that masked man?" And it's obviously not for protection.

 

[KevTravels]

I kinda wonder if they had always envisioned a Cap 4 with Sam as the lead and the series (being a showcase for the fans) was a trial run for that.

I mean Mackie isn't a movie star but he's been in a bunch of stuff for decades now (supporting roles in so-so films and leads in a bunch of indies in addition to the MCU). I'd really like to see Sam continue in an Avengers 5 as well but he'd probably take a bit of a backseat to newer Avengers.