The Joker Thread - Part 1

[AndyTrevino]

can someone link the image from the mentioned comic panel? i can't see it

Spoiler

 

[BMW 224]

Spoiler

View attachment 51370

Holy **** that's ****in gruesome !

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[Seriously if Barry's scars/burns look like this panel than he makes Heath Ledger scars look almost tame in comparison.


It also makes more sense that he would have burns or some heavy ulgly disfurgment form falling into chemicals.

I really like this as opposed to Jack Nicholson and Jared Leto basically looking like there were wearing makeup and lipstick anyways instead being transformed by chemicals.

Also for those who wanted a more clean looking Joker at least this gives a explanation on why that isn't the case.

It's not his choice to look like this its the chemical burns.

 

[RokMeAmadeus]

This was always one of my favorite panel/comic snippets.
View attachment 51353

You could easily adapt this into a scene that references both this and Nicholson's "I'm melting! I'm melting! GAAAAH" bit lol

 

[AndyTrevino]

I mean theoretically it's possible he still looks clean to some extent

 

[BMW 224]

I mean theoretically it's possible he still looks clean to some extent

Spoiler

[True but I'm not expecting him to be as clean as say Phoenix was.

If he puts the lipstick over his burns chances are its gonna look pretty horror like.

If he doesn't and only his lips are red due to chemicals it will still look pretty horror like.

And seeing how Matt Reeves has interpreted Riddler outfit I'm expecting a radical change to the clothes Joker wears at least at first.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Spoiler

View attachment 51370

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All I can think is "man, that design would look so dope without the massive scars on the side of his face".

 

[AndyTrevino]

True but I'm not expecting him to be as clean as say Phoenix was.

If he puts the lipstick over his burns chances are its gonna look pretty horror like.

If he doesn't and only his lips are red due to chemicals it will still look pretty horror like.

And seeing how Matt Reeves has interpreted Riddler outfit I'm expecting a radical change to the clothes Joker wears at least at first.

Oh yeah for sure. I meant more in the sweaty Ledger kind of way. But yeah I want him to wear lipstick here, to really emphasize his sense of vanity even if he looks like....whatever the hell he could look like.

 

[BMW 224]

Spoiler

All I can think is "man, that design would look so dope without the massive scars on the side of his face".

Personally I prefer something visually unquie on Jokers face in live action that sepertates each take form each other.

Jack had his forced smile
Heath had his subtle scars
Phoenix had the whole clown like shaped tear drops and diamonds.

I think

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Barry Keoangh having chemical burns makes it a lot more unquie and striking.

Now

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[Barry's joker face is both "grounded" with the chemical burns but also "fantastical" with the classic pale skin and green hair
The best of both worlds.

 

[shauner111]

Spoiler tags guys.

I really love what they did with Heath Ledger's Joker. They asked the big question "who would Joker be in our world?". As Nolan was crafting an ordinary American city (Chicago/New York) for his Gotham, the Nolan's landed on a grungy, somewhat punk rock, dirtier young anarchist for the Joker. Chain hanging from his waist. A purple suit that he bought with the money he stole from the mob (hilarious). Bad hygiene. Hair that should be cut but he doesn't care. He throws makeup on his face covering the knife wounds/scars from the sides of his mouth. It's such a great way to bring Joker to life in a more realistic setting. A world where Batman (with help from Lucius Fox) has turned abandoned military tech into batsuits, bat planes and tumblers (with pods).

Spoiler

But now I'm so intrigued with the idea of a realistic Gotham that has more European influence/architecture. Where Batman puts everything together himself without secret military vehicles but with not so rich looking gear, muscle car, motorcycles & armour. So now there's multiple ways that you can approach the clown prince of crime in a real world. What if Joker fell into a vat of chemicals for real? And survived? What would he look like and what would it take to get there from a design/makeup standpoint? It's like they started off with a basic "let's make Ace Chemicals real" and ran with it for Mr J here. Nolan decided to simply eliminate it from the equation, which I imagine made it so much easier for him and Jonah to ground Joker. But now Reeves is diving head first into the more difficult approach.

It's like "how do we keep the comic book story of the Joker without necessarily changing it...but make it as realistic as possible?" as opposed to reinventing his whole look for realism's sake. Two ways of doing it and I love it.

 

[BMW 224]

Oh yeah for sure. I meant more in the sweaty Ledger kind of way. But yeah I want him to wear lipstick here, to really emphasize his sense of vanity even if he looks like....whatever the hell he could look like.

Heath Ledger Joker was vain but his insanity and philosophy led him to believe that his look was beautiful the normal citizens of gotham looked ugly.

Spoiler

Keoangh Joker from the leaked dialogue seems to think the opposite with all the talk of looking like a clown with the whole world laughing at him.

He seems to almost resent his pale skin and green hair.

So I think with this information we can conclude that he won't look sweaty and unkempt like Ledger and will take great effort to look as presentful as he possibly can.







I honestly hope instead of his lips being red from chemicals he does use lipstick instead.

It'd a great way of emphasizing the whole vanity aspect like you said.

The fact that it was his choice to have red lips.

 

[shauner111]

SPOILER

TAGS

smh

 

[AndyTrevino]

Heath Ledger Joker was vain but his insanity and philosophy led him to believe that his look was beautiful the normal citizens of gotham looked ugly.

Keoangh Joker from the leaked dialogue seems to think the opposite with all the talk of looking like a clown with the whole world laughing at him.

He seems to almost resent his pale skin and green hair.

So I think with this information we can conclude that he won't look sweaty and unkempt like Ledger and will take great effort to look as presentful as he possibly can.







I honestly hope instead of his lips being red from chemicals he does use lipstick instead.

It'd a great way of emphasizing the whole vanity aspect like you said.

The fact that it was his choice to have red lips.

Spoiler

Honestly I'd argue that he loves the way he looks if he's wearing lipstick. Like it's his way of embracing his ugliness.

 

[BMW 224]

Spoiler

Honestly I'd argue that he loves the way he looks if he's wearing lipstick. Like it's his way of embracing his ugliness.

I see what your saying and you could he completely right but I think in his eyes he's improving his look.

All his little touchups and changes in outfit lipstick etc are him making lemonade out of lemons.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

They did it already in Gotham in extreme way.

 

[PurpleStar]

Spoiler

Honestly I'd argue that he loves the way he looks if he's wearing lipstick. Like it's his way of embracing his ugliness.

Some general thoughts on Joker and vanity, so not really spoiler-y I think:
I also think Joker is very vain and sort of obsessively embraces his look. Consider how he is often presented with giant pictures of himself in his hideouts, on the Jokermobile etc. Even the effects of his Joker Venom is to leave the victims smiling in death, as if they enjoyed his "performance art" - the sign of the Joker. There's a lot of ego, vanity, arrogance and self obsession in that. He enjoys what he does, and he enjoys how his new face can terrify people. But there is also a deep resentment under this narcissism. Actually, there's a couple of small lines in Steve Englehart's Dark Detective (2005) which spring to mind, although they don't elaborate in too much detail which I prefer.

Spoiler

Also, in general on the subject of how disfigured Joker should look. I'm a bit nervous about the idea of having a scarred face but mostly because it calls to mind Ledger and that's so ubiquitous in popular culture that I want to get away from it. But, that said, there's nothing inherently wrong with scarring - after all the original inspiration for Joker's look was Conrad Veidt as Gwynplain so that idea of disfigurement is always there. Something that looks like chemical burns rather than a Glasgow smile is potentially interesting though. Just have to still have that clown ish look, if creepy, but the more horrifying looks can negate this effect imo. I like the Blevins art in the Images Legends of the Dark Knight scans I posted on the other page as I think there's a good balance of clown-ish but freaky. The skin texture is chalk white but rather disfigured looking and not makeup. The dialogue in that story also describes his voice as damaged sounding compared to when Batman heard him as the Red Hood. Plus, on another note, as Joker's whole body is meant to be chalk white due to chemical burns, I've entertained the idea he might be blotchy with discolouration and burn scarring, rather than just flawless white all over.

 

[BMW 224]

Spoiler tags guys.

They did it already in Gotham in

Not exactly.

This looks goes completely grounded and has his entire face destroyed beyond compare with barley any hair left.

According too

Spoiler

test screenings Barry Keoangh still has the white face and green hair and chemical scars are much more grotesque and probably not grey.

Speaking of Gotham I've always thought Jeremiah should have put makeup and wig on his scared face after he saw his appearance.

 

[BattleAngel]

Re: all these spoilers… Wish I hadn’t read them. Sounds awful.

 

[emielaen]

Lol

 

[AndyTrevino]

Ok. More for us then lol

 

[PurpleStar]

Re: all these spoilers… Wish I hadn’t read them. Sounds awful.

To be honest, I also feel unsure based on spoilers here. I basically just accept that I peobably won't get precisely what I like Joker to be, or even just a little similar but that's worst case scenario. Mostly I just like discussing Joker in this thread. Though I have hopes for what I like to get from Reeves for Joker, I know it might be good but not necessarily what I imagine myself.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Some general thoughts on Joker and vanity, so not really spoiler-y I think:
I also think Joker is very vain and sort of obsessively embraces his look. Consider how he is often presented with giant pictures of himself in his hideouts, on the Jokermobile etc. Even the effects of his Joker Venom is to leave the victims smiling in death, as if they enjoyed his "performance art" - the sign of the Joker. There's a lot of ego, vanity, arrogance and self obsession in that. He enjoys what he does, and he enjoys how his new face can terrify people. But there is also a deep resentment under this narcissism. Actually, there's a couple of small lines in Steve Englehart's Dark Detective (2005) which spring to mind, although they don't elaborate in too much detail which I prefer.

Spoiler

Also, in general on the subject of how disfigured Joker should look. I'm a bit nervous about the idea of having a scarred face but mostly because it calls to mind Ledger and that's so ubiquitous in popular culture that I want to get away from it. But, that said, there's nothing inherently wrong with scarring - after all the original inspiration for Joker's look was Conrad Veidt as Gwynplain so that idea of disfigurement is always there. Something that looks like chemical burns rather than a Glasgow smile is potentially interesting though. Just have to still have that clown ish look, if creepy, but the more horrifying looks can negate this effect imo. I like the Blevins art in the Images Legends of the Dark Knight scans I posted on the other page as I think there's a good balance of clown-ish but freaky. The skin texture is chalk white but rather disfigured looking and not makeup. The dialogue in that story also describes his voice as damaged sounding compared to when Batman heard him as the Red Hood. Plus, on another note, as Joker's whole body is meant to be chalk white due to chemical burns, I've entertained the idea he might be blotchy with discolouration and burn scarring, rather than just flawless white all over.

Spoiler

Heavily agree with you on the skin. I'm thinking it'll be very splotchy.

And I'm sure it'll be chemical scarring done in a different way to affect the whole skin rather than just the mouth

 

[AndyTrevino]

They did it already in Gotham in extreme way.

This'll look much gnarlier on a much larger budget lol.

 

[BMW 224]

Are we all in agreement that

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it's joker in that picture ?

 

[Erik Lensherr]

That's a good point

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[BMW 224]

That's a good point

Spoiler

The picture matches Barry's nose and lip while also matching up with the fact that Joker is in Arkham already which means he would be known enough to probably be on some news