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It makes me wonder now if there's a way they could bring back Tony in a similar manner but I'm not really sure how'd that work with him. Maybe at the exact moment he used the Infinity Stones? And then he has to wrestle with the idea that if he helps save the day in Secret Wars, it would also mean he'd be sent back to his death.
Oh I don't think they can do the same with Tony. It will most likely be a variant and they're gonna play that angle, having people who knew *our* Tony dealing with a different one. Unlike him, there's a huge gap in Cap's life they can take advantage of.
 
Oh I don't think they can do the same with Tony. It will most likely be a variant and they're gonna play that angle, having people who knew *our* Tony dealing with a different one. Unlike him, there's a huge gap in Cap's life they can take advantage of.
Yea I think that's probably the most likely scenario as well, I was trying think a bit outside the box.
 
Yea I think that's probably the most likely scenario as well, I was trying think a bit outside the box.
They can take it out of the timeline before he dies but that's just gonna screw up everything.
 
My best guess is that if RDJ returns, Marvel will likely use a Stark Varient, since we have a multiverse and have been introduced to various earths, i would bet that would be the way they would go and not deminish the sacrifice of the 616 Stark, which Marvel has said they wouldnt do so bringing back Iron Man of 616 earth wouldnt be ideal, it would almost certainly have to be a varient.
 
On the previous discussion re Peltz, having him get influence over Disney is like bringing a Zaslav to run things (into the ground) right when you are struggling.
 
My best guess is that if RDJ returns, Marvel will likely use a Stark Varient, since we have a multiverse and have been introduced to various earths, i would bet that would be the way they would go and not deminish the sacrifice of the 616 Stark, which Marvel has said they wouldnt do so bringing back Iron Man of 616 earth wouldnt be ideal, it would almost certainly have to be a varient.
Agreed, that’s the only way I’d want to see it. Can’t undo a series defining death like that with callbacks to the very first film. Any variant also wouldn’t have to be good when we first meet them, maybe they might turn good after seeing what this other version of them did.
 
See, they keep mentioning they will cut back their annual releases. Yet it doesn't feel that way. We are only getting 1 MCU movie this year because of the strikes and that Brave New World needs major reshoots...

Vision Quest and Armor Wars are still happening and both are reported to film later this year. Agatha, Daredevil Reborn and Ironheart are already filmed and should all be out before 2026.
 
See, they keep mentioning they will cut back their annual releases. Yet it doesn't feel that way. We are only getting 1 MCU movie this year because of the strikes and that Brave New World needs major reshoots...

Vision Quest and Armor Wars are still happening and both are reported to film later this year. Agatha, Daredevil Reborn and Ironheart are already filmed and should all be out before 2026.
We they say they're cutting back, they're talking about their total output in a year.
 
It would be in Marvels best interest to cut back the amount of films and shows they are releasing, i understand that ultimatly Disney has that say, but there is simply to much being released and at some point people will just stop watching, its hard to get excited about a film when there are 2 disney+ shows you have to watch so the film makes sense, and i have found myself less interested in watching as much as i used, now granted, i didnt see every film as they came out, the only ones i actually saw in theaters were all the Iron man films, all the avengers films, and think Captain Marvel, Thor Ragnorok , Captain America Winter Soldier and Civil war, after endgame the only film i have gone to theaters to see was Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, as for the disney+ shows, i watched both seasons of Loki, What if?, Falcon and the winter soldier and thats it.
I would 100% see another film with Robert Downey Jr as Stark and am very interested in Armor Wars and perhaps Iron Heart, but right now, im not excited for anything else.
 
Disney should find another IP for Disney+. The problem is they've used Marvel to attract subscribers which probably worked. If you want to binge watch Marvel stuff either movies, live action show or cartoons, it is the app to go and not Netflix. But after 2 years since WandaVision, we've already had 8 to 9 shows before The Marvels flopped. And with so many Marvel movies (including Sony) still being made, not everyone is simply going to watch everything in the cinemas when there's a cheaper alternative. Disney+ is a good alternative to keep up with everything MCU.

I think they need to deprive the public new Marvel content, so when a new content comes out, they miss seeing a new Mcu film, they instantly drive to their nearest theater to see the latest film instead of waiting for it to come out in Disney+ in 2 months.

Everytime I open my TV, and I see all those ads, Disney+ is advertising their latest Marvel show. And i see a lot of internet advertisements as well especially when Quantumania became available on Disney+.
 
I would say this “fatigue” is really hard to actually quantify at the box office as much of it is still hyperbole.

Covid was still around for much of 2021, it wasn’t until December that people started flocking back to theaters; as evidenced in No Way Home being the third highest earning MCU film and sixth highest earning film of all time. It likely would have made more if Covid was farther away from release.

2022 saw Doctor Strange 2 earn 955 million at the worldwide box office; the first made 278 less at 677 mill. Thor Love And Thunder domestically earned 343 mil (that’s higher than Ragnarok’s domestic take of 315; per worldwide - Ragnarok opened in more countries). Wakanda Forever made 859 mil (making it the ninth highest earning non-Avengers-team-up MCU film (out of 28)); after losing/replacing its title hero.

2023 had Guardians of the Galaxy 3 which made 845 mil, just 18 less of Guardians 2 in a summer where blockbuster films were falling on their face all over the place including Mission Impossible and Fast and the Furious which used to be guaranteed money makers.

That means we’re primarily looking at Ant Man (which strayed very far from the tone of the first two films and was never a heavy hitter) and The Marvels (which made the massive mistake of tying itself to tv shows).

Per “not a billion!!!” - only five non-Avengers-level films (out of 28) reached that amount. One of which was the first high budget blockbuster with a mostly Black cast and crew (Black Panther) that not only was the first academy award nominated MCU film but also a - cultural milestone - which should not be underestimated at all (kids were getting bussed to go see it and there were charities getting tickets for kids).

[adding for clarity: No Way Home is counted as one of those five]

Many keep saying not reaching a billion is some indication of the MCU doing poorly while dismissing the fact that 83% of MCU’s non-Avengers-level films have never reached this amount. Statistically there’s a lot more against that happening than for.

Guaranteed - Deadpool 3 does great, articles will say that Marvel is saved; the next Marvel film to come out doesn’t make as much but still makes a strong profit (higher than most previous MCU films) and there will be articles saying the MCU is under water again. That’s to say, it’s more click bait than statistically backed up.

To me it’s more hyperbole than doomsday.
 
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The bigger characters and the more tried and tested characters are always doing to do well or better at the box office. Especially if the movie is good.

Thats why 2nd solo movie from Shazam, Aquaman, Captain Marvel saw a big dip from their predecessors. The Flash hasn't headlined his own movie until 2023 when the DC brand wasn't as strong as it was before. Then that leaves you with Black Adam, Madame Web, who aren't really well known outside of the comics.

It will be extra interesting what happens next year. Thunderbolts, Captain America without Chris Evans and another Fantastic 4. That line up is not tried and tested. Its a good thing there won't be a Blade reboot and another Sony movie that isn't Spider-Man in 2025.

Deadpool/Wolverine should perform well if not great. Venom 3 should at least pull "okay" numbers. Kraven has no chance in succeeding, at this rate imo.
 
The bigger characters and the more tried and tested characters are always doing to do well or better at the box office. Especially if the movie is good.

Thats why 2nd solo movie from Shazam, Aquaman, Captain Marvel saw a big dip from their predecessors. The Flash hasn't headlined his own movie until 2023 when the DC brand wasn't as strong as it was before. Then that leaves you with Black Adam, Madame Web, who aren't really well known outside of the comics.

It will be extra interesting what happens next year. Thunderbolts, Captain America without Chris Evans and another Fantastic 4. That line up is not tried and tested. Its a good thing there won't be a Blade reboot and another Sony movie that isn't Spider-Man in 2025.

Deadpool/Wolverine should perform well if not great. Venom 3 should at least pull "okay" numbers. Kraven has no chance in succeeding, at this rate imo.

Here's the thing - people are mixing DC and Marvel. There is without a doubt DEFINITELY a DC fatigue. But only two MCU films haven't done well post Covid.

If I was to reckon a guess it's because DC recently is a brand that people know not to trust outside of a couple of rare occassions (Batman films). It's like do you get chicken from McDonalds or Applebees? Both are relatively fast food/chain food, but customers generally know that Applebees is much better quality than McDonalds if that makes sense. James Gunn has his work ahead of him and I trust that he can do it.

I don't see the Sony non-Spider-Man movies ever doing well outside of Venom. They put little to no work into those and that shows on the screen and in the trailers.

Thunderbolts is a wild card. I expect that to potentially just break even or make some profit. I also expect that if it even makes a semi healthy profit people will chant that the sky is falling for Marvel. Problem here is same as with The Marvels - Disney is putting too much faith into thinking people will want to see continuation of TV characters on the silver screen. G.A. will have the same response to Walker as they had to Monica and Kamala, "who?"

[I think 'Mandalorian' here might be an exception since that widely caught on during Covid]

I expect that Captain America without Chris will probably make a healthy profit, but be a noticeable drop off from the box office of Chris' films (akin to BP vs BP2). People will again chant that the sky is falling. While a TV show is connected to it, audiences won't really need to see the series to follow the film - they know the characters. It needs to be said - Chris' first Cap wasn't a lightning rod success either - he caught on after the first Avengers film. I remember being a rarity and odd duck out in favoring Cap over Iron Man.

I think Fantastic Four has a strong chance if it's done right. Audiences tend to want a new take on familiar grounds. A superhero film that takes place in the 60s is that in spades.

My thing is this - saying there's a Marvel fatigue or a sweeping superhero fatigue at this point is a hyperbole. The statistics just don't show that at the box office. It shows a DC fatigue, but not Marvel, if anything. 2021 and 2022 were solid years that saw mostly gains (if Thor premiered worldwide, box office rose domestically), 2023 was the outlier with films that had obvious problems except for one (Guardians). Four solid years (2024) with an outlier isn't "fatigue."
 
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Marvel Studios went from having two films grossing over $200million in 2023 to having a superhero film grossing less than $100 million in North America. Worldwide, The Marvels didn't even outgross Quantumania's numbers in North America. It was that bad.

Superhero fatigue is not a DC thing only. We've been exposed to so many Marvel content throughout the years and it seemed like the bubble had finally burst. Alsothose MCU shows aren't doing great either. They aren't that popular compare to Neflix's Stranger Things and Squid Game. So I doubt they are bringing great money to Disney as a whole.
 
Marvel Studios went from having two films grossing over $200million in 2023 to having a superhero film grossing less than $100 million in North America. Worldwide, The Marvels didn't even outgross Quantumania's numbers in North America. It was that bad.

Superhero fatigue is not a DC thing only. We've been exposed to so many Marvel content throughout the years and it seemed like the bubble had finally burst. Alsothose MCU shows aren't doing great either. They aren't that popular compare to Neflix's Stranger Things and Squid Game. So I doubt they are bringing great money to Disney as a whole.

So you're honestly going to actually try to say that having one outlier year in four secutive years that had solid performances 3/4 times is fatigue?

Two films performing poorly whereas five saw gains or remained consistent is fatigue?

It's hyperbole. People have been saying Marvel has reached it's peak since before even the first Iron Man.

Adding: it's chicken little territory.

CNBC 2016: Is superhero movie fatigue a myth?

"Last year, after Twentieth Century Fox’s “Fantastic Four” flopped and Disney’s “Avengers: Age of Ultron" underperformed its predecessor, box office watchers posed an intriguing question: After an impressive run of more than a decade and billions of dollars in revenues, had superhero movie fatigue finally set in?"

In the lexicon "superhero fatigue" has been around for so many years.

Time 2011: Box Office: Green Lantern's Superhero Fatigue

The Wrap 2016: Did ‘Deadpool’ Save the Superhero Genre From Fatigue?

Forbes 2018: Diversity And 'Black Panther' Are The Antidotes To Superhero Fatigue


It feels like as long as there has been superhero movies, people have been shouting that there is "fatigue" and jump at even the slightest disappointment to proclaim it's real and will hit the MCU as noted in the 2016 article quote.

If it was real for the MCU - box office across the board for all of MCU films would be on a constant and noticeable decline. There wouldn't be gains or managing to hold firm (still making more than most MCU films) - most would perform similarly to Ant Man and The Marvels (which both failed for very obvious reasons: too much not like its prior installments, leaning too heavily on material general audiences are unfamiliar with due to streaming).

As said, at the box office it has yet to rear its head. When it does for the MCU, it will look like a meteor (akin to DC's recent non-Batman performance) - increasingly going down with no end in sight - not two bad outlier ducks (AMQ, TM)

I should note: has there been a decrease in quality? Yes. Can this hurt the MCU if that isn’t fixed? Absolutely. However, fatigue hasn’t hit the MCU - simply audiences don’t and won’t turn up if the film is bad (an obvious statement that is true for every film). The Marvels was a terrible film and therefore failed.
 
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The fatigue is palpable in the way most releases are not having the same "shine" as they had in the past, even the ones that did fairly well in the box office. GOTG Vol 3 was really good but it just isn't having the same life outside the theatrical window as the first or even the second one had. With the obvious exception of Deadpool and Wolverine the superhero genre is on the downhill side when it comes to anticipation and repercussion.
And yes, I still believe Disney+ is the responsible for taking away that special night event of Marvel being on the big screen a few times a year, while at the same time decreasing the overall quality of every single product. When you release something like Secret Invasion you're just damaging the brand in a big way. Not to mention the absolute garbage Sony is putting out.
 
I feel that Black Panther Wakanda Forever gets blanked out of people's minds as a film that did well (considering the circumstances). It also took itself fairly seriously.
 
I feel that Black Panther Wakanda Forever gets blanked out of people's minds as a film that did well (considering the circumstances). It also took itself fairly seriously.
The reason for that is the box office dip. It did well, just not in comparison to Black Panther.
 
I feel that Black Panther Wakanda Forever gets blanked out of people's minds as a film that did well (considering the circumstances). It also took itself fairly seriously.

GOTG3 I think had very much a lot of life and good buzz. The shine was there on that one

Right, that's what I was saying. They are not having as much of an impact after the fact. They come and go.
 
The reason for that is the box office dip. It did well, just not in comparison to Black Panther.

Which is also understandable because - the title hero was absent/replaced.

I personally can’t think of another scenario where that happened.

So the box office being impacted by that would always be the case. That said, what’s impressive is how much it held on regardless.
 
Seriously, between middling-received projects like The Marvels and Secret Invasion, or some saying that Deadpool 3 will be the MCU film to turn things around, some tend to forget that Guardians 3 did do well.

This historically has always been the case.

Film does well - “Marvel is back!”

Next film doesn’t as well - “Marvel is in ruins! Superhero fatigue!”

Next film does well - “Marvel is back!”

Next film doesn’t - “It’s the end of Marvel!”

Next film does well - “Marvel is saved!!!”

It’s a teeter totter that keeps on forgetting all of the films around it which has been going on since the first Iron Man film and even prior to.
 

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