The Rotten Tomatoes/Critic's Reaction Thread

[Zarex]

I think Strange suffered on the humor front due to Rachel McAdams' limited screen time. I could have seen her playing a role similar to Mendelsohn's Talos, who single handedly moved the movie from pretty to very good

Spoiler

when he joined Team Cap in Nawlins.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The humor really felt forced in Doctor Strange as well. Whereas I thought it was pretty natural here. I'm usually not one to complain about humor in marvel movies, but I felt it in Strange.

The Wong - Beyonce stuff still haunts me to this day.

 

[Web-Head]

The Wong - Beyonce stuff still haunts me to this day.

That went on too long. Also the "...more Kamar-Tajy" line was just cringe inducing

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Most of the complaints I see about Captain Marvel and the MCU in general (actual complaints from real critics, not trolls) seem to revolve around things like the aesthetic, cinematography, visual effects, and editing. This also explains the popularity of Doctor Strange as it excels in those areas. And I like it when a movie is pretty too.

But I care far more about story and character. The technical aspects simply take a backseat to telling a good story for me. Complaints like "every Marvel movie looks the same" means very little to me.

 

[hawkflame]

Most of the complaints I see about Captain Marvel and the MCU in general (actual complaints from real critics, not trolls) seem to revolve around things like the aesthetic, cinematography, visual effects, and editing. This also explains the popularity of Doctor Strange as it excels in those areas. And I like it when a movie is pretty too.

But I care far more about story and character. The technical aspects simply take a backseat to telling a good story for me. Complaints like "every Marvel movie looks the same" means very little to me.

A lot of them also complain about Brie Larson’s performance, which is not a small aspect of the film. In fact, it’s a key reason for me personally as to why the film doesn’t hold up.

But I also disagree with your assessment that cinematography and editing are just technical elements that take a backseat to telling a good story- in a visual medium, they are key building blocks to good storytelling. They build atmosphere, suspense, tension, and a scene can fall apart if those elements aren’t executed well. They are not just about making a movie look good.

 

[Abudefduf]

I was very surprised how closely Carol's origin hewed to the source material. I was assuming there would be major changes but in the film

Spoiler

Carol gains her powers due to the energy backlash from the explosion of a miracle device. The explosion was the result of a confrontation between Mar-Vell, considered a traitor by the Kree, and Yon Rogg. Carol developed amnesia, believed herself to be a Kree Warrior, and initially her powers were limited by this confusion.

That's pretty much a direct lift from the comics.

And yet there are a lot of morons out there claiming that Carol stole Monica's movie. Even though the story told in the movie is clearly Carol's.

 

[misslane38]

And yet there are a lot of morons out there claiming that Carol's stole Monica's movie. Even though the story told in the movie is clearly Carol's.

I think that's more because Monica is canonically predates Carol's Captain Marvel, so the film stole Monica's story by having Carol come first and inspire her rather than the other way around.

 

[Abudefduf]

Why would Carol be inspired by Monica when in the comics she became Ms Marvel 5 years before Monica was even created. Carol is the original heir to Mar-Vell, not Monica. When Carol became Captain Marvel in 2012 it wasn't to honor Monica, it was to honor Mar-Vell.

If anything, Monica being inspired by the first Captain Marvel is much more accurate to the comics than her *being* the first Captain Marvel.

 

[misslane38]

Why would Carol be inspired by Monica when in the comics she became Ms Marvel 5 years before Monica was even created. Carol is the original heir to Mar-Vell, not Monica. When Carol became Captain Marvel in 2012 it wasn't to honor Monica, it was to honor Mar-Vell.

If anything, Monica being inspired by the first Captain Marvel is much more accurate to the comics than her *being* the first Captain Marvel.

Monica Rambeau was Captain Marvel in 1982, if I'm correctly following the history described in this article: The Unfortunate and Obscure History of Monica Rambeau, the First Female Captain Marvel.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Monica Rambeau was Captain Marvel in 1982, if I'm correctly following the history described in this article: The Unfortunate and Obscure History of Monica Rambeau, the First Female Captain Marvel.

And Carol Danvers became Ms. Marvel in 1977. That's the point. Danvers was first.

 

[Abudefduf]

Monica Rambeau was Captain Marvel in 1982, if I'm correctly following the history described in this article: The Unfortunate and Obscure History of Monica Rambeau, the First Female Captain Marvel.

The way Marvel has treated Monica over the years is kind of shameful, but that's not the point. The point is that Carol Danvers was the first person to inherit Mar-Vell's legacy, not Monica; Monica came later.

Carol Danvers, the half-Kree, is the character whose origin story is connected to the Kree and Mar-Vell; Monica just took up the mantle because no one else was using it at the time, her backstory is completely different. To act like the two are interchangeable is disrespectful to both of them.

Monica deserves much better than to be turned into "Carol Danvers, but black", and I'm glad Marvel introduced her the way they did. This is all just proof that the people saying that Carol stole Monica's story have no idea what they're talking about, to them it's just another excuse to hate on this movie while pretending to be totally not sexist.

 

[misslane38]

And Carol Danvers became Ms. Marvel in 1977. That's the point. Danvers was first.

I thought we were talking about Captain Marvel rather than Ms. Marvel. According to the article, Monica was the first (female) Captain Marvel, correct?

 

[misslane38]

The way Marvel has treated Monica over the years is kind of shameful, but that's not the point. The point is that Carol Danvers was the first person to inherit Mar-Vell's legacy, not Monica; Monica came later.

But I thought the question was who was the first female Captain Marvel rather than who was the first to inherit Mar-Vell's legacy?

Carol Danvers, the half-Kree, is the character whose origin story is connected to the Kree and Mar-Vell; Monica just took up the mantle because no one else was using it at the time, her backstory is completely different. To act like the two are interchangeable is disrespectful to both of them.

I don't think those who are upset want the two characters to be interchangeable. They simply would have preferred the essence of the continuity to remain in tact with Monica representing a different yet equally marvelous iteration of Captain Marvel.

Monica deserves much better than to be turned into "Carol Danvers, but black", and I'm glad Marvel introduced her the way they did. This is all just proof that the people saying that Carol stole Monica's story have no idea what they're talking about, to them it's just another excuse to hate on this movie while pretending to be totally not sexist.

Yeah, I don't think anyone who wanted Monica to be served better as a character wanted her to be black Carol Danvers. I'm pretty sure that's a strawman.

 

[flickchick85]

I thought we were talking about Captain Marvel rather than Ms. Marvel. According to the article, Monica was the first (female) Captain Marvel, correct?

In name only. She had no connection to the mythology. It was a pretty random thing. The Captain Marvel mythology is inherently tied to Mar-Vell’s legacy. It’s pretty clear Marvel realized this and that’s why they changed her to Photon. Carol pre-dates Monica as a superhero and is an integral part of the Captain Marvel mythology/legacy. They went with the right Captain, imo.

 

[misslane38]

In name only. She had no connection to the mythology. It was pretty random thing. The Captain Marvel mythology is inherently tied to Mar-Vell’s legacy.

Sure, it was random, but it is also the legacy of the Captain Marvel title. So to present Monica as a child who will grow up in Carol's shadow doesn't make much sense. There was a way to position Monica's "random" iteration of Captain Marvel into the story that honored the complexity of that legacy without presenting her solely as a follower. Grant Morrison has talked about the inherent value in maintaining the spirit of the detailed continuity of a mythology no matter how twisted and convoluted. I don't think the approach taken in MCU's Captain Marvel achieved that goal.

It’s pretty clear Marvel realized this and that’s why they changed her to Photon. Carol pre-dates Monica as a superhero and is an integral part of the Captain Marvel mythology/legacy. They went with the right Captain, imo.

Okay, for me, this isn't about who is the "right Captain" and more about how the history of a character is played out in a way that honors the spirit of the continuity. Photon is part of Monica's story, so it's great that the MCU is honoring that part of her history. But she was Captain Marvel first regardless of her connection to Mar-Vell, so that unique element of her history should be taken into consideration.

 

[MbJ]

And yet there are a lot of morons out there claiming that Carol stole Monica's movie. Even though the story told in the movie is clearly Carol's.

Most of those people are concern trolls of the #AlitaChallenge variety who literally only care about Monica because it gives them a reason to bash the movie that doesn't immediately send up red flags about their intentions.

Ironically, they'd probably have been twice as pissed about a movie starring a black woman.

 

[Abudefduf]

Yeah, I don't think anyone who wanted Monica to be served better as a character wanted her to be black Carol Danvers. I'm pretty sure that's a strawman.

No it's not. I know who I'm talking about and they're stupid people. If they did want Monica to be served better they wouldn't be asking for a Captain Marvel movie starring her in the first place, because they would know that movie would've been pretty much impossible to make.

What those people are basically saying is that Marvel should've made either a Carol Danvers movie starring Rambeau, or a Captain Marvel movie without Mar-Vell and the Kree. To me they both sound like terrible ideas.

 

[misslane38]

Most of those people are concern trolls of the #AlitaChallenge variety who literally only care about Monica because it gives them a reason to bash the movie that doesn't immediately send up red flags about their intentions.

Ironically, they'd probably have been twice as pissed about a movie starring a black woman.

I can't speak to the #AlitaChallenge folks who I am not aware of at all, but many of the young women I follow on social media were unhappy about Monica's role in the film.

 

[flickchick85]

Sure, it was random, but it is also the legacy of the Captain Marvel title. So to present Monica as a child who will grow up in Carol's shadow doesn't make much sense. There was a way to position Monica's "random" iteration of Captain Marvel into the story that honored the complexity of that legacy without presenting her solely as a follower. Grant Morrison has talked about the inherent value in maintaining the spirit of the detailed continuity of a mythology no matter how twisted and convoluted. I don't think the approach taken in MCU's Captain Marvel achieved that goal.

Then she shouldn’t have been in the movie at all. There’s no version of this where she’s the rightful heir to the legacy, when she’s never had anything to do with it. Carol EARNED that title and her place as the rightful Captain Marvel. Marvel should’ve given her the title as soon as Mar-Vell died instead of Monica. Monica is great, but as Photon (and Spectrum). If you don’t want her being inspired by Carol, that’s fine, but Monica makes no sense as Captain Marvel and never did. It was just a random name for her.

I thought the way they included her was a clever little nod to the comics history, but that’s me.

 

[misslane38]

No it's not. I know who I'm talking about and they're stupid people. If they did want Monica to be served better they wouldn't be asking for a Captain Marvel movie starring her in the first place, because they would know that's pretty much impossible.

What those people are basically saying is that Marvel should've made either a Carol Danvers movie starring Rambeau, or a Captain Marvel movie without Mar-Vell and the Kree. To me they both sound like terrible ideas.

What do you mean "basically saying"? What are they actually saying? What are they actually asking for? Because I follow several young women on social media who have talked about this and your characterizations of their criticisms don't ring true at all.

 

[MbJ]

I can't speak to the #AlitaChallenge folks who I am not aware of at all, but many of the young women I follow on social media were unhappy about Monica's role in the film.

No it's not. I know who I'm talking about and they're stupid people.

When you have websites associated with Ethan Van Sciver and the rest of his movement calling Marvel "racist" for making the movie about Carol, you can safely assume it's a bad faith argument from the majority of the people making it.*

*Now if you wanna go into this being the umpteenth example of the white hero and their supportive black best friend, be my guest. But the "MARVEL IS RACIIIIIIIST IF THIS WAS REALLY PROGRESSIVE IT WOULD'VE BEEN ABOUT MONICA!" rhetoric is mostly coming from a very specific demographic.

 

[Abudefduf]

What do you mean "basically saying"? What are they actually saying? What are they actually asking for? Because I follow several young women on social media who have talked about this and your characterizations of their criticisms don't ring true at all.

They're saying stupid things because they're stupid.

The young girls you're talking about... what is their problem with movie Monica? Is it that she looks up to a white character? Because if that's the case then yeah, it's a valid criticism to make. But I hope they realize how unrealistic it was of them to expect Marvel to erase their most popular non-mutant superheroine in favor of a less popular one.

By going the route they have, on the other hand, Marvel will be able to make movies for both characters. It's a win-win scenario, if you ask me.

 

[misslane38]

Then she shouldn’t have been in the movie at all. There’s no version of this where she’s the rightful heir to the legacy, when she’s never had anything to do with it. Carol EARNED that title and her place as the rightful Captain Marvel. Monica is great, but as Photon (and Spectrum). If you don’t want her being inspired by Carol, that’s fine, but Monica makes no sense as Captain Marvel and never did. It was just a random name for her.

I never said Monica is the "rightful heir" of the Captain Marvel legacy. I said there's a way to honor her history in the canon without completely twisting it or erasing it completely. And she has had something to do with the history of Captain Marvel. She took over the name and the title during a period when the original Captain Marvel was gone and Carol was Ms. Marvel, so find a way to play with that idea in a film that positions Carol as Mar-Vell's true heir. Why couldn't there be a Monica Rambeau on Earth using the Captain Marvel name circa Carol's return to Earth? Why create Maria to be Carol's peer rather than Monica? There are plenty of ways to wink at the original canon history of these characters without undermining it.

 

[misslane38]

I'm sorry, but this is extremely rude. What is insane about speaking about my own experience with people unhappy with Monica's role in the film? I don't know anything about these #AlitaChallenge people, so I can only speak to the few people I interact with who have shared heartfelt disappointment with the MCU's approach.

 

[misslane38]

The young girls you're talking about... what is their problem with movie Monica? Is it that she looks up to a white character? Because if that's the case then yeah, it's a valid criticism to make. But I hope they realize how unrealistic it was of them to expect Marvel to erase their most popular non-mutant superheroine in favor of a less popular one.

It's the idea that she's secondary to Carol. They don't care about Carol taking on the title of Captain Marvel. It is about a younger black girl looking up to an older white woman when that's not the spirit of the character in the mythology. I believe they would have been satisfied with Monica as more of a peer or partner with powers of her own. Maria is fantastic as Carol's friend and Monica's mother, but she's also not a superhero and is positioned in a sidekick role that is even beneath Nick Fury.

By going the route they have, on the other hand, Marvel will be able to make movies for both characters. It's a win-win scenario, if you ask me.

I think there was a way to make films for both characters without Monica meeting Carol as a child.