TLS isnt really in continuity with X2

[Theweepeople]

in assuming, your talking about Jean and Magneto?
Jeans powers were limited for her own good (or atleast what he felt was necessary at the time), they were to much for her to handle safely without harming her self of others, unintentionally
where magnetos intention to hurt others was not seen by Xavier in time, and he developed a way, to not be controlled or limited by him, with his helmet, when his intentions turn violent, (as well as, they had a history together, and he believed that Magneto still had good in him, he was always looking for some hope in him to changing his ways on his own) also, magnetos powers is not what made him dangerous, it was his actions (gained with his powers he is more of a physical threat)

just my thought's on it

Actaully I was talking about Jean Grey and Jason Stryker. Not Magneto.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

Actaully I was talking about Jean Grey and Jason Stryker. Not Magneto.

ohh, opps (forget about that then)
well, then, ummm, ok, so, Jason’s powers are different, and his mind couldn't be blocked off in the same as Jeans mind was, therefore, he would be unable to do the same kinda thing to him. and Jason didn't really have intentions to hurt people, at that time,(that we know of) he later, after being rejected (or takin) out of the school and back at home with parents that hated and resented him,which messed him up, though, he still never really tried to hurt anyone that we know of (his mother may of killed her self, because of what he did, but, it was never imply that, it was his intentions for her to do that) and what he did, in x2, was also not on his own intentions, he was under mind control, and obviously very mentally disturbed. it was a different situation then with jean
he couldn't help jason, not the way his father wanted him to, anyway

 

[storm-x-fan]

I'm quoting AVEITWITHJAMON;11272906 point by point.

Watching them both over the weekend i felt that X2 and X3 felt like totally different movies that were not really connected. Now its pretty well known on here that i hated X3, but i dont really want to discuss this in this thread, i want to discuss the continuity between the movies. Here are some of my issues:

• I'll get the obvious one's out of the way first, the firebird, Rogue seeming a lot more confident in 2, and then taking the cure in 3 not really fitting and
• Cyclops being killed of in 3 despite 2 strongly pointing out that Jean loved him the most and saw her future with him. But here are some others as well.

I'll explain. In X-2, the relation between Rogue and Iceman was just developing. and in x-3, when Shadowcat comes in the way, and Iceman kisses her (in the deleted scene), Rouge sure feels uncertain of ehrself, and therefore takes the cure, trying to fulfill iceman's desires.

Jean did love Cyclops the most, thats why she sent him to soem otehr place so taht she may not harm him. she did not kill him for sure.

If Magneto knew Jean when she was little why was this not alluded to in the first two movies. In 1 and 2, they act like people who have only met through being enemy's in various battle's, there is not even a hint that they knew each other years ago as friends or teacher and student.

Maybe, Jean's emmory was blocked by Professor X. and anyway, if u watch the movie carefully, at first, Charles and Mags went to jean when she was a child. and after so man yyrs they again went to this tiem phoenix. that was the satire type of a thing....

Wolverine in still a loner who goes off and does his own thing at his will in X1 and X2 with no hint of him being even able to lead a team.

wolvie and cyek never fit together, but with cyke gone, jean and charels assumed dead, only storm and wolvie are elft. so things change due to the circumstances.

At the end of X2, Xavier is looking out of the window when Jubilee asks "Professor, is everything alright?" to which he smiles and replies "Yes i think it will be." To me, this indicated that he knew Jean was alive and would be coming back. Now in X3, he seems a little surprised at her return and he is also afraid of what she could do. Now if he knew the Pheonix would resurface and be pissed, why would he smile and tell the students he thinks everything will be alright at the end of 2? IMO this indicates that Bryan Singer had intended Jean to return as still a good guy (or girl even) and then she would develop into the Dark Pheonix over time. But the way they went in X3 now makes this scene in X2 not make sense. Also in this scene in X2 Xavier says Jean was always hesitant about her powers as a girl. Again the first scene in X3 just simply dismisses this as young Jean didnt seem hesitant at all about using her powers to me.

well, prof x know jean would be back in x2. what surprised him in x3 was when he sensed soemthing being done to cyclops with her extreme powers.

Also at the end of X2 Cyclops is obviously distraught at what happened, but he shows no signs of being "a changed man" as he is in X3. At the end of X2 he is still in his smart clothes and looking like a professional and someone who will lead the school someday.

i bet there was just 1 scene with cyclops after jean's so-aclled death in x2. in x3, jean is actually returning, and scot can hear her call him. look at that bed-room scene, or how fast he goes to alkali lake without thinking anything. all these does shhow he's changed, as in the previous movies he used to think and make stratagies before a mission.

EDIT: Just remembered another one, in X1 Xavier says to Wolverine that Cerebro amplifies his power. So why doesnt he use it on Jean to restore the psychic barriers.

Beacuse jean is more powerful than him. its not jean anymore- its the phonenix. it cannot be controlled by rpofessor x. what he cpusl do was to prevent it from gaining power, which he did by creating mental blocks.

Bottom-line: I'm known to be a great ***** for debating. hope i was able to explain.

 

[gambitfire]

[/list]I'll explain. In X-2, the relation between Rogue and Iceman was just developing. and in x-3, when Shadowcat comes in the way, and Iceman kisses her (in the deleted scene), Rouge sure feels uncertain of ehrself, and therefore takes the cure, trying to fulfill iceman's desires.

but that's still out of character and going backwards as far as her development is concerened. So in the end she does it for some boy....that still seems like a bad message to send across.

Jean did love Cyclops the most, thats why she sent him to soem otehr place so taht she may not harm him. she did not kill him for sure.

She did not send him to some other place for sure either. Not to mention that would make no sense as far as her powers go.

Maybe, Jean's emmory was blocked by Professor X. and anyway, if u watch the movie carefully, at first, Charles and Mags went to jean when she was a child. and after so man yyrs they again went to this tiem phoenix. that was the satire type of a thing....

Yes but we can't assume the moment she becomes a student Mags goes evil and Charles says Hey Jean that never happened......

If when she was recruited she's still a kid it can be assumed Eric and Charles taught together at the school for a while, so she would have to recall some part of that, unless Xavier is still the manipulative jerk he is and erased memories for his own convenience......

I think it's clear here that X3 just doesn't go hand in hand with X2 as it should have, but that could just be my opinion (even though the obvious might as well be a fact).

wolvie and cyek never fit together, but with cyke gone, jean and charels assumed dead, only storm and wolvie are elft. so things change due to the circumstances.

True it's all very convenient really.
In the end it doesn't change the fact that it makes Logan look slightly out of character. Yes he changed in the course of this movie i've heard .

well, prof x know jean would be back in x2. what surprised him in x3 was when he sensed soemthing being done to cyclops with her extreme powers.

Yea he said something along hte lines of everything is going to be alright......Worst foreshadowing ever.

i bet there was just 1 scene with cyclops after jean's so-aclled death in x2. in x3, jean is actually returning, and scot can hear her call him. look at that bed-room scene, or how fast he goes to alkali lake without thinking anything. all these does shhow he's changed, as in the previous movies he used to think and make stratagies before a mission.

I think what Aveit is saying is that it was a change that came as if from nowhere, it wasn't built upon. It's really bad character development and story telling in my book and that of many professionals.

all these things you say are like 2 minor things in the span of a whole movie.

If you're willing to buy what was done to Scott as justifiable and consitent with the story, then go ahead that's your problem but it's clear that something is wrong there and the studio politics could not be more obvious on screen.

Beacuse jean is more powerful than him. its not jean anymore- its the phonenix. it cannot be controlled by rpofessor x. what he cpusl do was to prevent it from gaining power, which he did by creating mental blocks.

Bottom-line: I'm known to be a great ***** for debating. hope i was able to explain.

If that is so true then how come he was able to hold his own for the most dragged on on-screen psychic battle in history? I'm sure cerebro would of given him some kind of edge. I doubt it would of given him the upper hand though. It was a missed strategy which i'm surprised he didn't bother using especially when tracking her down.

Is it me or did he do alot of tracking without cerebro something he required in the past movies?

I know she's powerful but he got very good from one movie to another. *shrugs*

 

[Theweepeople]

Is it me or did he do alot of tracking without cerebro something he required in the past movies?

I know she's powerful but he got very good from one movie to another. *shrugs*

This is one plothole I've never talked about much but, I always wondered how Xavier knew Jean was at her parents house without using cerebro? I think the answer to my question is horrible writing and bad filmmaking.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This is one plothole I've never talked about much but, I always wondered how Xavier knew Jean was at her parents house without using cerebro? I think the answer to my question is horrible writing and bad filmmaking.

For the same reason that Jean, in X2, knew that Pyro was with Magneto...............................................

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

but that's still out of character and going backwards as far as her development is concerened. So in the end she does it for some boy....that still seems like a bad message to send across.


She did not send him to some other place for sure either. Not to mention that would make no sense as far as her powers go.





Yes but we can't assume the moment she becomes a student Mags goes evil and Charles says Hey Jean that never happened......

If when she was recruited she's still a kid it can be assumed Eric and Charles taught together at the school for a while, so she would have to recall some part of that, unless Xavier is still the manipulative jerk he is and erased memories for his own convenience......

I think it's clear here that X3 just doesn't go hand in hand with X2 as it should have, but that could just be my opinion (even though the obvious might as well be a fact).




True it's all very convenient really.
In the end it doesn't change the fact that it makes Logan look slightly out of character. Yes he changed in the course of this movie i've heard .




Yea he said something along hte lines of everything is going to be alright......Worst foreshadowing ever.



I think what Aveit is saying is that it was a change that came as if from nowhere, it wasn't built upon. It's really bad character development and story telling in my book and that of many professionals.

all these things you say are like 2 minor things in the span of a whole movie.

If you're willing to buy what was done to Scott as justifiable and consitent with the story, then go ahead that's your problem but it's clear that something is wrong there and the studio politics could not be more obvious on screen.




If that is so true then how come he was able to hold his own for the most dragged on on-screen psychic battle in history? I'm sure cerebro would of given him some kind of edge. I doubt it would of given him the upper hand though. It was a missed strategy which i'm surprised he didn't bother using especially when tracking her down.

Is it me or did he do alot of tracking without cerebro something he required in the past movies?

I know she's powerful but he got very good from one movie to another. *shrugs*

Couldnt have put all of that better, thanks

This is one plothole I've never talked about much but, I always wondered how Xavier knew Jean was at her parents house without using cerebro? I think the answer to my question is horrible writing and bad filmmaking.

Yep, that would be my answer as well.

For the same reason that Jean, in X2, knew that Pyro was with Magneto...............................................

This is actually a good point Nell, but the fact Jean senses that Pyro is with Magneto, and the fact Xavier doesnt when he is only 3 feet away from Jean to me just shows that, at that point, Jean was more powerful than Xavier.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He just would have followed behind, stealth-like.

It's not unfathomable for me.

The thing is he still would have had to find the X-Jet and hide in its chamber, we saw the door close immediatly behind Wolverine when he walks to the jet and then the next shot is the jet leaving the mansion so they left in a hurry and i just dont see any oppurtunity for Angel to get in the jet without the X-Men noticing.

A fictional character with the unlimited resources of being a fictional character can find a way to move undetected across the country when real life fugitives the world over can move around the world undetected.

Hhhmmm that a fair point, but even in a fictional world, some logic wouldnt go amiss.

Then there is nothing left to discuss here

Yep

A bunch of untrained civilians essentially, against well trained soldiers...

The X-Men would have pwn3d the Brotherhood, and Magneto knew it.

Well trained or not 50-100 against 6 (3 of which are essentially kids who have never seen real combat) is overwhelming odds.

As far as actual -detection-, I think we only see that in 3. Perhaps I'm wrong though, it's been awhile since I'm watched any of the 3 movies.

Well he detected Wolverine's adamntium on the train in X1 immediatly, and he detected the extra iron in the guards blood in X2 as well as detecting the X-Jet and its damage in X2 also.

Still, Magneto has never been in the middle of a war like this before in the movie verse. It is completely reasonable for me to assume that he'd have been distracted by the task at hand, and wasn't focusing on planes that may or may not be flying into the area.

Magneto knew Wolverine had heard his speach about going to Alcatraz, so he must have known the X-Men would show up at some point, he should have been ready for that IMO.

You're right, it would have helped, but there -is- an explanation for what happened. It just wasn't handled in the best way, and I agree that there should have been more to Angel's arc.

Just one or two short scene's would have helped A LOT

It's not obvious, we never see her "training" her powers. I mean, she is still afraid to kiss Bobby throughout the entire movie because she might hurt him, but all of a sudden she's okay draining Pyro.

And the whole point of Rogue's powers is that she -CAN'T- control them.

I don't buy the "she's been learning to control them" when from the beginning of X2 we see her unwilling to so much as touch Bobby because she might hurt him (which would imply she HASN'T had any progress in controlling her powers) but all of a sudden at Bobby's house, she TWICE uses her powers without causing harm to anyone when she put her first boyfriend in a coma for 3 weeks for her lips barely grazing against his.



I still don't see it being any worse than Rogue's convenience power upgrade in X2.

She put her first boyfriend in a coma for 3 weeks because that was the first time her power manifested. And to me it obvious she's been getting lessons on how to control her powers at the school, remember Xaviers line about Cyclops, Jean and Storm ".....I protected them, taught them to control their powers, and in time, teach others to do the same." And its shown when she steals Wolverine's powers in X1 and Pyro's in X2. Its different with Bobby because she doesnt wnat to do anything to hurt him, but with Pyro, she saw he was out of control and knew she had to do something, but she tried her best not to hurt him.

I know you aren't like that, I was using that in more of the general sense. I think my frustrations with many of the residents of this community is pretty obvious. My frustrations don't include you. You and I may disagree on how the movie was handled, but I haven't seen any behavior from you that would have me frustrated with you. So I apologize if you thought that was about you, it wasn't, just in general.

Oh right ok, no problem.

I'm not even in complete disagreement about your statement that Fox "took the easy way out". I may be overall happy with the final result, but I am not 100% happy with the film or how Fox handled it. Not at all. I may think many people over-react to the situation regarding Fox and the creative team, but I'm not in complete disagreement with the beliefs that are the foundation of that over-reaction.

Fair enough.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

She put her first boyfriend in a coma for 3 weeks because that was the first time her power manifested. And to me it obvious she's been getting lessons on how to control her powers at the school, remember Xaviers line about Cyclops, Jean and Storm ".....I protected them, taught them to control their powers, and in time, teach others to do the same." And its shown when she steals Wolverine's powers in X1 and Pyro's in X2. Its different with Bobby because she doesnt wnat to do anything to hurt him, but with Pyro, she saw he was out of control and knew she had to do something, but she tried her best not to hurt him.

I think that this is where we are going to continue to have the biggest disagreement, because despite the fact that she may or may not have been recieving training on using her powers, X2 indicates that she has made absolutley NO PROGRESS what so ever with her unwillingness to so much as touch Bobby. And again, I reiterate, the point (and curse) of Rogue's power and struggle is that she CAN'T control her powers. She touches someone, and she drains them, and they can die if she holds on long enough, that simple. We see her put her boyfriend into a coma for 3 weeks by barely grazing her lips against his (they never even get to so much as a kiss before he started getting drained), but full on making out with Bobby, as well as holding onto Pyro's leg for a good minute, does nothing but minor effects on both of them. The movie never establishes any kind of progress in her training whatsoever, assuming that there has been progress is just that; blind assumption with no movie evidence to back it up. While not every little detail has to be seen, those events need to at least be indicated somehow through the story, and her unwillingness to become physical with Bobby indicates to me, that there has been no progress in controlling her powers. So therefore, I am led to the conclussion that her power upgrade at the Drake house was a convenient one for plot, just as Wolverine's upgrade against the Phoenix was convenient for plot. And these things do happen in movies, especially sci-fi. I don't think that EITHER is a case of bad writing, really.

 

[WideAwake]

So therefore, I am led to the conclussion that her power upgrade at the Drake house was a convenient one for plot, just as Wolverine's upgrade against the Phoenix was convenient for plot. And these things do happen in movies, especially sci-fi. I don't think that EITHER is a case of bad writing, really.

You're right about those conviences Nell, they do happen a lot in SF movies. But what I think is bothering people about Wolverine's power upgrade in that particular scene, is that it takes away from Phoenix' power. She is the most powerful mutant in the world, she has desintegrated half an island, yet when she faces a mutant whose powerlevels are nowhere near hers, she has trouble taking him down. And I don't believe she was toying with him. She seemed to struggle with ripping Wolverine apart quite a bit.

 

[BMM]

You're right about those conviences Nell, they do happen a lot in SF movies. But what I think is bothering people about Wolverine's power upgrade in that particular scene, is that it takes away from Phoenix' power. She is the most powerful mutant in the world, she has desintegrated half an island, yet when she faces a mutant whose powerlevels are nowhere near hers, she has trouble taking him down. And I don't believe she was toying with him. She seemed to struggle with ripping Wolverine apart quite a bit.

I don't think she is just toying with him either. She even gives a gasp and lurches forward a bit as though Wolverine has just broken through her immense telekinetic power.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think that this is where we are going to continue to have the biggest disagreement, because despite the fact that she may or may not have been recieving training on using her powers, X2 indicates that she has made absolutley NO PROGRESS what so ever with her unwillingness to so much as touch Bobby. And again, I reiterate, the point (and curse) of Rogue's power and struggle is that she CAN'T control her powers. She touches someone, and she drains them, and they can die if she holds on long enough, that simple. We see her put her boyfriend into a coma for 3 weeks by barely grazing her lips against his (they never even get to so much as a kiss before he started getting drained), but full on making out with Bobby, as well as holding onto Pyro's leg for a good minute, does nothing but minor effects on both of them. The movie never establishes any kind of progress in her training whatsoever, assuming that there has been progress is just that; blind assumption with no movie evidence to back it up. While not every little detail has to be seen, those events need to at least be indicated somehow through the story, and her unwillingness to become physical with Bobby indicates to me, that there has been no progress in controlling her powers. So therefore, I am led to the conclussion that her power upgrade at the Drake house was a convenient one for plot, just as Wolverine's upgrade against the Phoenix was convenient for plot. And these things do happen in movies, especially sci-fi. I don't think that EITHER is a case of bad writing, really.

I know these things happen in movies but i dont think this is case in the Rogue situation you are talking about. Notice also that the when she does drain Pyro, its AFTER she has kissed Bobby, so perhaps during that kiss, it shows her that she does have SOME control over her powers because of her teachings. Her being afraid to kiss Bobby at the start is just a follow on from the first movie.

You're right about those conviences Nell, they do happen a lot in SF movies. But what I think is bothering people about Wolverine's power upgrade in that particular scene, is that it takes away from Phoenix' power. She is the most powerful mutant in the world, she has desintegrated half an island, yet when she faces a mutant whose powerlevels are nowhere near hers, she has trouble taking him down. And I don't believe she was toying with him. She seemed to struggle with ripping Wolverine apart quite a bit.

I don't think she is just toying with him either. She even gives a gasp and lurches forward a bit as though Wolverine has just broken through her immense telekinetic power.

This is what i think as well guys, she can rip and island full of people, a building, and various other objects apart, but she cant take apart one mutant. Poor IMO.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I know these things happen in movies but i dont think this is case in the Rogue situation you are talking about. Notice also that the when she does drain Pyro, its AFTER she has kissed Bobby, so perhaps during that kiss, it shows her that she does have SOME control over her powers because of her teachings. Her being afraid to kiss Bobby at the start is just a follow on from the first movie.

I guess the only thing we can do is to agree to disagree, because we both obviously see it in 2 completely different ways.

This is what i think as well guys, she can rip and island full of people, a building, and various other objects apart, but she cant take apart one mutant. Poor IMO.

I still think she's toying with him. To me, that's made clear by the "You would die for them?" line, which to me, is said in a way that clearly indicates "I can off you at any time I so choose".

But that's my interpretation of the scene.

 

[kg576094]

Well, MM wasn't recruited 'for the sole purpose of being caught again.' It just so happened that he was used as a decoy, but there's no way Magneto could have known he was on that prison truck, so he didn't plan to use him that way from the outset. Besides, using him as a decoy was a good use of his power, showing what he was capable of. He was portrayed as having a very carefree, happy-go-lucky attitude, with his 'I'm in' line and staring at Mystique's booty! He seemed to be the sort who just went along for the ride, did things for the hell of it. There was obviously an attempt to show he had this kind of personality.

Yes, he and Juggs joined the Brotherhood a bit quickly, perhaps too quickly, and it might have been nice to see more dialogue, say Magneto saying 'In return for the freedom I've given you, would you consider joining my cause to fight this cure that threatens us all?'.

But that didn't happen and I'm reminded to some extent of the casual way that Magneto/Mystique form an alliance with the X-Men in X2. It was done without much discussion or tension (apart from Rogue on the X-jet).

However, what's done is done and if you don't like that scene with Multiple Man, then so be it. Return to your fantasies of Toad and Sabretooth loving it up in Paris.

No wonder whatever is your personal opinion remains as your personal opinion...carefree, happy-go-lucky attitude doesn't mean stupid and dumb.
You are hard pressed to make me believe that MM with his talents of robbing 7 banks at one time would wilfully be left behind at camp while the big boys were having ass-kicking fun elsewhere and be foolishly used as a bait for a military assult with the high probability of losing his power and being captured again.
Hello, either Magneto has the major charms as a seductress or both of them are strategical morons...anyway I always tot Magneto in X3 needed some lessons on strategical planning and military deployment.

On the last note I'm glad you like my take on the whereabout of both sabertooth and the toad

 

[kg576094]

Your reasoning about radiation causing severe burns is sheer nonsense in a sci-fi movie, especially since no-one exposed to Magneto's radiation suffered any burns. So we can throw that garbage out immediately. That doesn't apply here, as we saw.

I think you had misunderstood what I was trying to say, so let's me re-paraphrase ur statement for a clearer pict:
Your reasoning about radiation breaking mental blocks is sheer nonsense in a sci-fi movie, especially since no-one exposed to Magneto's radiation suffered any neurological effect. So we can throw that garbage out immediately. That doesn't apply here, as we saw

My pt is that the electromagnetic waves should affect all neural cells if it was supposed to have a definite effect on neural cells because machines and electromagnetic waves are generally non-differing and non-selective unlike our intelligent human brain.
Therefore for it to have an effect on dead or dorminant cells the electromagnetic wave should have an effect also on normal neural cells. This is meant to say that all people who were exposed to the electromagnetic wave were supposed to experience neurological side-effects like headaches, dizziness, seizures, memory loss or other forms of mental derailment.
I know the serendipity of science but for Magneto to build a machine that can differentiate human from mutants as well as unblocking mental block (dead or live neural cells) is too much of a science whiz
I find it a stretch already that Mag's machine only mutated human into superpowered mutants (however it was established in the movie; suspension of disbelief), bur for it to have the power to differ between blocked or unblocked neural cells too is too random and too much of a medical miracle, and shouldn't the Academy awards Mag with a Nobel prize for his work on finding a cure for stroke and braindead pt?

 

[X-Maniac]

No wonder whatever is your personal opinion remains as your personal opinion...carefree, happy-go-lucky attitude doesn't mean stupid and dumb.
You are hard pressed to make me believe that MM with his talents of robbing 7 banks at one time would wilfully be left behind at camp while the big boys were having ass-kicking fun elsewhere and be foolishly used as a bait for a military assult with the high probability of losing his power and being captured again.
Hello, either Magneto has the major charms as a seductress or both of them are strategical morons...anyway I always tot Magneto in X3 needed some lessons on strategical planning and military deployment.

You aren't looking at this correctly. Magneto is clearly aware that his forest camp will be discovered at some point - either by Mystique telling on him or by Wolverine reporting it to the authorities. So he arranges for the decoy. A clever move that delays the government's action against him. How he managed to persuade MM, what he said or offered MM, what MM thought about it, is irrelevant. Magneto recognised the usefulness of another mutant, as he has done before with Rogue, Xavier and Callisto, and he acted upon that. MM was in jail anyway, what did he have to lose? And how they managed to capture him if he could be in seven different banks is interesting too. You are overthinking this.

It's simple. Magneto freed mutants, one happened to have a cloning power. Magneto and army left forest camp, realised that government would probably be tipped off about location, arranged for decoy to delay government response. Simple. That's all there is to it. If every official film review had criticised this point, then your nitpick might have validity. But I never saw it mentioned anywhere off here, so it's just a nitpick.

 

[X-Maniac]

I think you had misunderstood what I was trying to say, so let's me re-paraphrase ur statement for a clearer pict:
Your reasoning about radiation breaking mental blocks is sheer nonsense in a sci-fi movie, especially since no-one exposed to Magneto's radiation suffered any neurological effect. So we can throw that garbage out immediately. That doesn't apply here, as we saw

My pt is that the electromagnetic waves should affect all neural cells if it was supposed to have a definite effect on neural cells because machines and electromagnetic waves are generally non-differing and non-selective unlike our intelligent human brain.
Therefore for it to have an effect on dead or dorminant cells the electromagnetic wave should have an effect also on normal neural cells. This is meant to say that all people who were exposed to the electromagnetic wave were supposed to experience neurological side-effects like headaches, dizziness, seizures, memory loss or other forms of mental derailment.
I know the serendipity of science but for Magneto to build a machine that can differentiate human from mutants as well as unblocking mental block (dead or live neural cells) is too much of a science whiz
I find it a stretch already that Mag's machine only mutated human into superpowered mutants (however it was established in the movie; suspension of disbelief), bur for it to have the power to differ between blocked or unblocked neural cells too is too random and too much of a medical miracle, and shouldn't the Academy awards Mag with a Nobel prize for his work on finding a cure for stroke and braindead pt?

You aren't thinking about this correctly either.

Jean clearly reacts differently to the radiation from Magneto's machine. Firstly she doesn't seem to want Scott to stop it by blasting Magneto so Wolverine can do his thing (she keeps saying 'Wait') and then when it stops, she looks to one side. Something changed. X2 follows that up with Scott saying she hasn't been the same since Liberty Island. The bedroom levitates when she has nightmares, she can hear everything with her telepathy, the museum monitors have interference when her power flares.

It's clearly established that Magneto's machine affected her in some way.

We are told in X1 that Magneto's machine appears to have no effect on mutants, and no other mutant beside Jean is afected. Therefore, there is something different about Jean.

Many of us have concluded that Magneto's machine affected the part of Jean's mind that Xavier had made 'human' and normal. So that just like normal humans, that part would be affected by the radiation. That seems a reasonable conclusion. In fact, there are no other conclusions that can be drawn from what we have been told.

I'm not sure why you are being so stubborn or stupid or dense about this. It's the only conclusion that can be drawn from the events.

There is no other answer. Jean changed since Liberty Island, but mutants weren't affected. So it affected the part of her whose mutation was suppressed and caged, where the effects of her mutant gene had been switched off by Xavier.

That's it. There is no other argument. You have to accept this conclusion because there is no other logical conclusion. X1 and X2 set up the subtle ideas you are criticising, not X3.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

You aren't looking at this correctly. Magneto is clearly aware that his forest camp will be discovered at some point - either by Mystique telling on him or by Wolverine reporting it to the authorities. So he arranges for the decoy. A clever move that delays the government's action against him. How he managed to persuade MM, what he said or offered MM, what MM thought about it, is irrelevant. Magneto recognised the usefulness of another mutant, as he has done before with Rogue, Xavier and Callisto, and he acted upon that. MM was in jail anyway, what did he have to lose? And how they managed to capture him if he could be in seven different banks is interesting too. You are overthinking this.

It's simple. Magneto freed mutants, one happened to have a cloning power. Magneto and army left forest camp, realised that government would probably be tipped off about location, arranged for decoy to delay government response. Simple. That's all there is to it. If every official film review had criticised this point, then your nitpick might have validity. But I never saw it mentioned anywhere off here, so it's just a nitpick.

Yup.

If, after the government found out about Magneto's base of operations, they found through their satellite feed that there was nobody there, then they wouldn't have wasted their time there, and would have had a better chance at locating him before his attack on Alcatraz.

Because he utilized Multiple Man to this effect, the government believed they had finally found him. They wasted time and resources on trying to capture him at his base, where he wasn't at, instead of using that time and resources to defend against Alcatraz.

 

[BMM]

Haha. This April Fools joke is giving me a headache. These colors are awful.

 

[gambitfire]

OH IT's A JOKE!!

Thank god for a moment i thought the hype made some kind of deal with a porn site since i keep getting adult adds at top......

Seriously though these colors are nauseating!!!

 

[the_scream]

A few more:

In X2 it is pretty clear that Jean is attracted to Logan but is going to choose Scott. In X3, they backtrack with the same theme.

In X3 it is implied that Beast was a former X-Men. But in X1, it is also clear that the X-Men are fairly new and wet behind the ears, not functioning for years before.

In X3 Wolverine is shown to heal at a super fast rate. In X2 he can't heal as fast and is severly hurt on a number of occasions (shouldn't the Phoenix be more powerful than a bullet?)

In X2, Pyro and Iceman are friends. In X3, they hate each other. I understand this but it could have been shown to develop on screen.

In X1, Storm comes across as a shy follower. In X3, she's barking out orders left, right and centre.

In X1 and X2, Xavier is a noble man. In X3, he is ethically flawed and pigheaded.

 

[Theweepeople]

A few more:

In X2 it is pretty clear that Jean is attracted to Logan but is going to choose Scott. In X3, they backtrack with the same theme.

In X3 it is implied that Beast was a former X-Men. But in X1, it is also clear that the X-Men are fairly new and wet behind the ears, not functioning for years before.

In X3 Wolverine is shown to heal at a super fast rate. In X2 he can't heal as fast and is severly hurt on a number of occasions (shouldn't the Phoenix be more powerful than a bullet?)

In X2, Pyro and Iceman are friends. In X3, they hate each other. I understand this but it could have been shown to develop on screen.

In X1, Storm comes across as a shy follower. In X3, she's barking out orders left, right and centre.

In X1 and X2, Xavier is a noble man. In X3, he is ethically flawed and pigheaded.

That's a nice list. My list has most of these and a few more. Two of the many problems I had are the following:

What happened to cerebro? If it was damaged why wasn't this issue addressed in X3?

If cerebro was destroyed then how was Xavier able to locate Jean without it? Jean's parents house isn't next door to the X-Mansion or is it?

 

[TKing]

That's a nice list. My list has most of these and a few more. Two of the many problems I had are the following:

What happened to cerebro? If it was damaged why wasn't this issue addressed in X3?

If cerebro was destroyed then how was Xavier able to locate Jean without it? Jean's parents house isn't next door to the X-Mansion or is it?

Funny how you are so obsessed with what happened to Cerebro; when you could also ask "Where was Toad and Sabretooth in X2?" They could easily have survived their attacks in X1 (they are powerful mutants you know - otherwise why else would Magneto recruit them?) yet no one nitpicks about this little continuity error. People just shrug it off. Why can't they do that for X3?

 

[TKing]

A few more:

In X2 it is pretty clear that Jean is attracted to Logan but is going to choose Scott. In X3, they backtrack with the same theme.

In X3 it is implied that Beast was a former X-Men. But in X1, it is also clear that the X-Men are fairly new and wet behind the ears, not functioning for years before.

In X3 Wolverine is shown to heal at a super fast rate. In X2 he can't heal as fast and is severly hurt on a number of occasions (shouldn't the Phoenix be more powerful than a bullet?)

In X2, Pyro and Iceman are friends. In X3, they hate each other. I understand this but it could have been shown to develop on screen.

In X1, Storm comes across as a shy follower. In X3, she's barking out orders left, right and centre.

In X1 and X2, Xavier is a noble man. In X3, he is ethically flawed and pigheaded.

Well, my views on these:

1. In X2, we had just Jean. In X3, we had to contend with Jean and Phoenix. From the subbasement scene between Logan and Jean, I was under the impression that we were seeing Phoenix - a completely different character. As Xavier says, a being of desire. This isn't the same, timid, faithful Jean Grey we've seen before. This is something else. Therefore, different motives. Not too hard to grasp.

2. How did you get the impression that the X-Men were fairly new in X1? I thought quite the opposite. Actually, when Scott disapproves of Logan joining their team, for me it establishes that Scott knows he's the man in charge - which implies they've been through this before. He doesn't want Logan to upset routine.

3. Fair enough - in X3, Logan did heal faster. But maybe the Phoenix wasn't concentrating too much - as others have said, maybe she was taunting him? She knew she could destroy him in an instant - for such a beastly being, I would guess she likes to see as much pain and suffering as she can. To satisfy herself, she would have to make Logan work harder, and therefore to stay alive he would have to push himself to the max.

4. I would never classify Bobby and Pyro as friends - in X2, we could see they each had different views. (Food courtroom scene; Bobby - "I think you're the only one having a good time."; Under the Institute attack; Pyro - "He can handle himself, let's go!" X-Jet scene; Pyro - "You always do what you're told?") They obviously aren't the best of friends - and therefore it can be safe to say that there is already conflict between them. This divide is only strengthened when Bobby realises Pyro has betrayed them, gone back on everything the Institute stands for. Why would Bobby have time for someone like that?

5. You've skipped an entire film here. X2 is the gap between them - to link the two. Storm goes from, as you say "shy follower" - to empowered X-Men (in X2, taking charge of the jet, rescuing the kids and Xavier) - to the newly-found leader in X3. This change in roles - it's forced upon her. Xavier gone, Scott gone, Jean- who else is going to take charge? Storm, in my eyes, is the only one certified; she's been here the longest. And she knows it too. What's wrong with that?

6. I wouldn't say pigheaded; sure Xavier comes across as darker, but his pupil just killed another of his! What do you expect? Throughout X1 and X2, we see Jean is a "favourite" of his; he goes to the Senate with her, when Magneto comes to the train station, it is Jean and Xavier who go - and at the end of X2, Xavier talks fondly of Jean, more so than he has of any other. In X3, this is continued. Jean holds a special place in his heart - and now she's come back as something completely different! No longer the Jean he knows and loves so much. Of course, his motives will be different; his actions possibly questionable, but if you think about it, it's understandable.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

A few more:

And an explanation for each one.

In X2 it is pretty clear that Jean is attracted to Logan but is going to choose Scott. In X3, they backtrack with the same theme.

Actually, they don't. Not really.

In X-Men: The Last Stand, Jean is Phoenix, and Phoenix is the primal, instinctual, animal side of Jean. Attraction is instinctual, animal, primal, and not only that, but Phoenix is very manipulative. What Jean shows for Wolverine is nothing more than attraction / manipulation. There is no display of true human emotion from Jean to Wolverine. Jean only becomes emotional at the mention of Cyclops, because, that is where her emotions lay.

In X3 it is implied that Beast was a former X-Men. But in X1, it is also clear that the X-Men are fairly new and wet behind the ears, not functioning for years before.

But, we also see Cerebro, the Blackbird, already made uniforms, an entire subbasement, and training during the montage. On top of them already knowing all about Magneto and his ways. The conflict of X-Men is definatley NOT their first conflict. They have had missions before.

In X3 Wolverine is shown to heal at a super fast rate. In X2 he can't heal as fast and is severly hurt on a number of occasions (shouldn't the Phoenix be more powerful than a bullet?)

In X-Men, Rogue puts her boyfriend into a coma for 3 weeks by barely grazing her lips against his. In X2, she full on makes out with Iceman, and clutches onto Pyro for a significant amount of time, with no effects on either one except for a brief moment of draining.

Wolverine's power upgrade is no different than Rogue's. People use the excuse that Rogue was learning to control her powers. But Rogue CAN'T control her powers, that's the point of her character. And X2 makes no indications that she's had any progress. So there is no reason to believe that she has actually developed her powers more to her control.

And if people DO buy that Rogue came to learn to control her powers better, why can't they buy that someone like Wolverine, who is obviously more experienced with his powers, and has a more controllable power, upgraded his?

In X2, Pyro and Iceman are friends. In X3, they hate each other. I understand this but it could have been shown to develop on screen.

While a bit more would have helped, the falling out was pretty much shown in X2.

In X1, Storm comes across as a shy follower. In X3, she's barking out orders left, right and centre.

Why do you conveniently forget that in X2, she was the one running the team? She was the one giving orders all through X2 in the absence of Cyclops. Her becoming a leader is nothing new.

In X1 and X2, Xavier is a noble man. In X3, he is ethically flawed and pigheaded.

No, that is a label that X3 haters want to through out on Xavier. He did nothing wrong.

He put in mental blocks into a child who had very dangerous powers located in a part of her brain out of her control. He then spent the rest of her life teaching her how to control those powers to a point where she wouldn't need the blocks anymore.

He gets angry when Wolverine, an outsider, who knows nothing of the situation, begins grilling him about what happened. Wolverine is really in no place to ask, and Xavier's response is justified. Wolverine has been poking his nose in where it doesn't belong ever since he arrived at the mansion. This was none of Wolverine's business, but he kept prying and prying and prying.

This does not make Xavier a bad person.