Why haven't the Avengers ever faced Apocalypse?

[Sloth7d]

Eitherway Wanda could never poof the phoenix out of existence because the phoenix represents life itself.

 

[Anubis]

And Sentry is pretty much immune to telepathy.
But sentry vs phoenix would be a good battle non the less.

Where the hell did you get that bulls**t from? Everything that has been shown on the guy has shown that he's extremely susceptible to telepathy and mind control. I mean come on.

 

[Sloth7d]

Where the hell did you get that bulls**t from? Everything that has been shown on the guy has shown that he's extremely susceptible to telepathy and mind control. I mean come on.

Well, I only assumed this because Emma Frost couldn't force her way in Reynolds mind. He had to let her in. But then again maybe I perceived that wrong.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

The Phoenix being an aspect of the universe itself would incorporate the power of the Sentry as a part of itself. The Sentrys power is a small part of the power of the Phoenix in much the same way as your little finger is a part of your body.

 

[Anubis]

Hey, if freakin Mastermind was able to put a wammy on him to screw his brain up so utterly, then any solid telepath should be able to at the very least, show him all the other s**t that's going on in the world at the same time reducing him to a quivering mass of crazy much the same way Stark did recently in Iron Man.

 

[bkhedr]

I deliberately left Jean and Xavier out of the lineup because they are currently inconvenienced although I definately like them in the lineup. Rogue has taken Thors power before and could do it again given the opportunity. Psi shields do no good with Polaris around since all Earth tech including Iron Man, Reed, and Doom are subject to an EMP. Longshot was included in the lineup as the answer to the Sentry. His probability alteration would have to ensure that the Sentry was at minimum power in order to save him since a full power Sentry would be too formiddable. As for Wanda, she has no reality altering powers. House of M is the only time that she has ever displayed that kind of power and that was ridiculous. Her powers are probability alteration and minor magical skills. House of M was beyond Dr. Stranges ability. Without artificial aid none of the Avengers except Moondragon have defense against psionic attacks. Only Hulk, She Hulk, Iron Man and Wonder Man have significant levels of durability, Sentry I know little about except what has been discussed on this site. Oh, and Moondragon is so formiddable that the Thing once put her over his knee and spanked her.

We disagree on alot. Either way its all good. You can keep your opinions and i'll keep mine

I will say though that you left off Thor and Hercules off the list of Avengers with significant durability. Those two soak up damage like sponges and keep on trucking. In fact the kind of damage that would vaporise IM might just knock out Thor

 

[Anubis]

Funny, I once saw Thor get shot in the forehead with a high powered rifle and get knocked unconscious for ten minutes.

 

[bkhedr]

Funny, I once saw Thor get shot in the forehead with a high powered rifle and get knocked unconscious for ten minutes.

bad writing

 

[Anubis]

Of course it was bad writing, but that's beside the point.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Thor and Hercules do not have significant levels of durability other than what their muscles can soak up. Their durability has been categorized in the handbooks of the 90's. Their durability category was superhuman. Colossus was in the Metahuman category which was the next one up. Hulk, Blastaar, and a very few others were in the Demigodlike category. Demigodlike can endure anything short of but not including an nuke.

 

[bkhedr]

the hand books are notoriously full of crap

thing is, as Anubis pointed out, we can both be right.

The characters are only as powerful as the writer chooses to write them. Thor can do back strokes in lava or get knocked out by a bullet, depending on who is writing

Colossus can be fight the Juggernaut to a standstill, or be outclassed as he should be by the mystically powered truly invulnerable juggernaut, depending on who's writing.

But I still prefer the Avengers so in my mind the Avengers are more powerful and I chose to focus on their better showings

 

[Silicon Surfer]

At the time the Handbooks were written it was stated that the information in the handbooks was binding on the writers and editors. They were not allowed to write anything that contradicted the handbooks until a new handbook was publisher with the changed stats.

 

[bkhedr]

And yet they do all the time. I'm not disputing your facts as you presented them, but in the world of comic books those facts often change on a whim

and they do, despite what the hand book says

 

[Silicon Surfer]

And yet they do all the time. I'm not disputing your facts as you presented them, but in the world of comic books those facts often change on a whim

and they do, despite what the hand book says

We agree on that at least.

 

[Docker2.0]

When the heck did the F4 go up against Apocy?

 

[Sloth7d]

In all reality, I don't see why Apoc can't be an Avengers villain.
Cable lived in a world ruled by Apoc. That means at some point in time Apocalypes killed the Avengers. Which is why he came back in time to help the x-men stop him.

 

[Docker2.0]

Good point Sloth7d! But if you could only outwit Mistress Gluon, you'd be doing something, seeming as she always pawns you!

 

[Sloth7d]

Its not fair. Shes omniscient I tells ya!!

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

What is the Punisher considered as? If you was in the Marvel universe, would you put him in prison or in a psych ward?

Consider him absolutely crazy. Maximum security psych ward. He would kill inmates since he has the opportunity in prison.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah you would think Marvel would be smart enough to spread their heroes out instead of having 50 heroes in one city. God forbid that Dr.Doom attacks Atlanta or California. At least DC has their heroes guarding individual cities.

Actually, we could assume that there are several lesser superhero's defending their towns with several lesser supervillans. Like the Greenwich Guardian. Sure, he was in New York, but he was still a pre functioning superhero. My assumption is that this is the case, and that all the super big villans that put threats on larger populations would rather attack big cities to make big splashes.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I've always thought that the X-Men were, all around, more powerful than the Avengers...

I mean, we're talking about the team that has Jean Grey, Cyclops, Havok, Rogue, Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Iceman, Polaris, and sometimes even Professor X himself on duty. I'd say that the X-roster has made up for about 80% of all telepaths and telekines and generally high-powered individuals in the Marvel universe.

I'd agree. Most of the potential in the X-Men could easily be considered heavy hitters. Granted, they're not as strong, or have as much energy to project, or even as much magic, their teams generally consist of only heavy hitting people, where the Avengers like to have regular humans on their roster. (Which is a rude generalization on my part.)

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Havok with very little skill and holding back severely took down the original version of the Hulk even though the Hulk was enraged. Havoks power has been said by Captain Britain to be of thermonuclear level. The limits of Havoks raw power aren't even known so far as I know. Banshee in his original appearance mesmerized an entire city including the original 5 X-Men. Siryn is at least as powerful and can use her powers in even more ways than Banshee. The Mesmerization effect is potentially enough to defeat the Avenger in and of itself. One of Icemans effects is to drain a target of its heat energy. This can kill any one of the Avengers and possibly multiple targets. Karma can possess one of the Avengers and attack another. Telepaths such as Emma and Rachel also have the ability to attack multiple targets at once. When she was with the Hellfire Club Emma rendered unconscious several of the X-Men even though they had training in mental defense. There is also the mindlock which can freeze an entire crowd and leave them unaware of what is going on for several minutes. Multiple rapid optic blasts from Cyclops could make eunuchs of the male Avengers. Dazzler in her early appearances was capable of briefly stunning the Hulk and increased her formiddability enormously over the years. She can now generate lasers, optic blasts and photon shields .

The only problem with the telepath ordeal is that Iron Man is:

1.) Not affected by telepaths,

2.) Would know that others are, and remove the telepaths right away.


Havok beating an earlier Hulk is kind of powerful, but if you were to count the Hulk of then to the Hulk of now, it's only like beating the Thing, or She-Hulk, both of which can't take down the Hulk on their best day. And thermonuclear is powerful and all, but several Avengers were beyond thermonuclear, such as Jack, Thor, Sentry, and a few others. Iron Man could even reasonably last out a nuclear attack given his armor is in proper repair.

Siryn is easily remedied. She's way too slow for most fliers, and horribly underpowered when considering the same characters. Ms. Marvel would have a field day with her.

Iceman is one of the true threats, and one of the hardest to beat. Thor could concievably do it, as much as any energy user, and Iron Man, since he can keep his armor super heated, and super heat targets too. (Iron Man just can do a lot.)

Cyclops would be a threat. There's little Iron Man could do outside of his sonics, or trying to overpower his beams. Thor could beat him, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, and other heavy hitters.

Karma is also a severe threat, but if I remember correctly, she only sends out psionic assaults, so Iron Man has the edge against that, and none of them have the offensive capability to really take on Iron Man. Emma and Rachel would be the largest threats to him. So the order would go like this, Emma goes down before she goes diamond, while Rachel is being fought, then she goes down (probably not by Iron Man, most of the Avengers have the physical power to just take her down anyway), and then Karma, even if she's hiding, is just hunted down while she's absorbing one of the Avengers, and just taken down, reversing the effect. And if push comes to shove, Iron Man could probably extend his anti psi shield to that person and cancel her out.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

The Hulk was an Avenger for, what, all of two hours or so? Ares hasn't even become an Avenger yet. I'll grant that Thor is a regular Avenger (and hey, Polaris can apparently control his hammer), but most of the longstanding Avengers are not nearly on that sort of power level, whereas there are quite a number of X-Men who are similarly empowered. And, heck, everyone goes on about how powerful the Sentry is, but put him in a room with even a novice telepath for five seconds and he'll be a babbling mess. And the X-Men practically invented telepaths.

The hammer thing shouldn't hold up. It's badwriting, since his hammer doesn't operate on our universe's physics, and she manipulates photons. But hey *shrug.*

As for the Sentry deal? He's alleged to have MASSIVE mental powers, as he could use his powers to not only make everybody forget about him, including all telepaths on Earth, he could even circumvent that and make someone remember his adventures like the guy made them up. At least, that's how it's currently being told. Originally, his serum mixed with a Temploron machine made everybody but Strange forget about him. Mastermind's powers work better on a stronger mental defense, and Emma was having a little difficulty on Rob's mind when he DIDN'T know of his powers and how to use them. Hell, Strange (considered through magic to be one of the most powerful telepaths on Earth) and up to date SHIELD technology couldn't even hold the Sentry back when he realized he was being played with.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

To be entirely realistic, Xavier and Jean together could take out that entire Avengers team, sans Sentry. The Avengers have little to no defense against their type of power.

Then Xavier could call Sentry a mean name and Sentry would go write a song about how said he is and how much the world and his father hate him.

And then the Void comes along and consumes Xavier's soul.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Don't underestimate the phoenix. Sentry has shown vast amounts of power, but he has yet to do anything that surpasses the phoenix in power. At most I'd say Sentry maybe ties the phoenix in ability if he doesn't hold back.
Hell, regular JeanGrey is a challenge to Sentry if he doesn't go all out.

(I should really get unlazy and just copy posts and make one huge conglomarate post, rather than have several posts. Oh well, I'm lazy when concerning the Hype.)

The Sentry was said to take on Galactus to a standstill all on his own. We know that this wasn't all the Sentry could do because 1.) (though this may be the faulty info, and probably is the least relevant) The Sentry had said he'd never gone full power before. 2.) They both still exist, and both have shown they'll kill opposition. and 3.) The Sentry wasn't fused with the Void, and this would create the perfect Sentry, since his mind would be balanced, and his alleged "limitless power" would be unleashed.

The Sentry is only as restricted as Robert is.