Animation Young Justice Cartoon - Part 10

[Slick]

Ok this was a big finale to this arc. I mean a lot stuff happened but overall my ranking of the Arcs go 4, 3, 2 and 1. I think this idea to split the episodes into individual character focused arcs was a good idea. Loving this season more then 3 right now (which also enjoyed).

 

[Primal Slayer]

Final episode titles leaked and this season spells out: Invitation to Kneel Before Zod

 

[OnTheAir]

 

[DCnightwing23]

The season has definitely improved but it feels needlessly long. The problem with what they've been doing these past two seasons is that they want to expand this world and introduce new characters, but these new characters have been underwhelming. Which means these underwhelming characters and their arcs take away from characters I actually care about. If they wanted to focus on new characters starting in season 3 till now, they should have just given us stories centered around them:

And they've beaten us over the head with The Light, especially Vandal Savage. S4 could've been improved by scrapping Vandal and The Light entirely, having the main villain be a surprise up until the reveal we got a couple of episodes back. I love the Zod stuff, but it's lessened by the unnecessary Light/Savage stuff.

I will say, the character designs these past two seasons (for the most part) have been so good

 

[Primal Slayer]

Last episode aired in a certain part of Canada....

If they get a s5 and dont focus on that cliffhangers...cancel it

 

[MadVillainy]

Spoiler

Do you mean the Furies cliffhanger?

I feel like this show is always just one big cliffhanger. Kinda why I fell off on it. And as I said months ago, I think it's very telling that on a site dedicated to supercape stuff that there's like no convo for YJ.

In any case, I think it'll be back for season 5. Don't know why but just a gut feeling. I don't think it costs much to produce and it maybe brings in a handful of subscribers so might as well. I don't think it moves the needle for HBO Max but doesn't hurt it either.

 

[kguillou]

I've been binging the show and I'm almost caught up (on ep 21). This show.......has become a big mixed bag. When its good, its GOOD but Weisman is starting to lose me here. Its not that any of this is bad but he and the writers are crafting a plot so dense and sweeping and unwieldy that I feel completely lost as to what the story is here.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I've been binging the show and I'm almost caught up (on ep 21). This show.......has become a big mixed bag. When its good, its GOOD but Weisman is starting to lose me here. Its not that any of this is bad but he and the writers are crafting a plot so dense and sweeping and unwieldy that I feel completely lost as to what the story is here.

Agreed. They want to do to much with so little time.

Spoiler

Do you mean the Furies cliffhanger?

I feel like this show is always just one big cliffhanger. Kinda why I fell off on it. And as I said months ago, I think it's very telling that on a site dedicated to supercape stuff that there's like no convo for YJ.

In any case, I think it'll be back for season 5. Don't know why but just a gut feeling. I don't think it costs much to produce and it maybe brings in a handful of subscribers so might as well. I don't think it moves the needle for HBO Max but doesn't hurt it either.

Yep, the cliffhanger.

I'm already pre-annoyed that some of the Earths best defenses against Kryptonians will likely be ignored (Wonder Woman and fam). If we get a S5 its hard time they stop being ignored.

 

[MadVillainy]

I've been binging the show and I'm almost caught up (on ep 21). This show.......has become a big mixed bag. When its good, its GOOD but Weisman is starting to lose me here. Its not that any of this is bad but he and the writers are crafting a plot so dense and sweeping and unwieldy that I feel completely lost as to what the story is here.

I've said it before, they're trying to tell the story of a whole DC Universe in one show and it doesn't work. It'd work if it was scaled back like season 1. But trying to introduce and deal with: Apokolips, Kryptonians, The Lights, Atlanteans, Arrow family, Bat family, Justice Legue, various socio political themes and ideas, AND the actual team of however many "young" heroes? And all of it is super serialized? That's way too much

I'm so confused how no one told him that they're juggling too much. Hot take, even with a proper schedule back in 2011-2012, YJ would've still gotten cancelled because it's so inaccessible and poorly written imo.

I would disagree with nothing being bad. I do think there are bad elements. But even then the main bad thing to me is just too many stories. It's like if Disney tried to tell the whole story of the MCU just in Avengers films.

 

[kguillou]

I've said it before, they're trying to tell the story of a whole DC Universe in one show and it doesn't work. It'd work if it was scaled back like season 1. But trying to introduce and deal with: Apokolips, Kryptonians, The Lights, Atlanteans, Arrow family, Bat family, Justice Legue, various socio political themes and ideas, AND the actual team of however many "young" heroes? And all of it is super serialized? That's way too much

I'm so confused how no one told him that they're juggling too much. Hot take, even with a proper schedule back in 2011-2012, YJ would've still gotten cancelled because it's so inaccessible and poorly written imo.

I would disagree with nothing being bad. I do think there are bad elements. But even then the main bad thing to me is just too many stories. It's like if Disney tried to tell the whole story of the MCU just in Avengers films.

Yeah, like, I hate to say it but I think this is yet another example of too much creative freedom on a streaming platform being a detriment. Being on Cartoon Network back in the day Weisman and co probably had to make sure that whatever story they were telling was palatable and easily accessible. And YJ seasons 1 and 2 were that but yet Weisman was pushing the narrative boundaries and trying to make something more grown up than your typical Saturday morning cartoon. And thats what we loved about it back then.

But now? I think THIS iteration is the cartoon Weisman always wanted to make. Something super adult and ambitious and dense but not at all accessible or engaging to watch. Its no wonder no ones talking about this show anymore, only a super hardcore DC comics fan would be able to follow this narrative coherently. This show just isnt fun anymore.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm so confused how no one told him that they're juggling too much. Hot take, even with a proper schedule back in 2011-2012, YJ would've still gotten cancelled because it's so inaccessible and poorly written imo.

Poorly written? In a sense that they jam WAYYYY to many storylines but other than that? To each their own.

 

[MadVillainy]

Poorly written? In a sense that they jam WAYYYY to many storylines but other than that? To each their own.

Clunky dialogue, very poorly done real world analogies, way too much exposition due to the timeskip, storylines that aren't that interesting, too many character? Yeah I would say so.

There's a reason this show isn't spoken about that much even among superhero fans. Especially compared to stuff like Harley Quinn, Invincible, etc.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah and this was a show that was heavily lobbied for by the fans for a revival back when it was canceled. Now, if you go on Youtube you see a whole bunch of "I'm done with Young Justice" videos sadly and they're all saying the same thing, this show's messy and too much going on and everything is hard to follow.

IF by some miracle (but not counting on it with Zaslov in charge) this gets a 5 th season Weisman NEEDS to strip these characters down and get back to the core group that we started with and get the focus back on their dynamic. That's what originally made this show work so well.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah, like, I hate to say it but I think this is yet another example of too much creative freedom on a streaming platform being a detriment. Being on Cartoon Network back in the day Weisman and co probably had to make sure that whatever story they were telling was palatable and easily accessible. And YJ seasons 1 and 2 were that but yet Weisman was pushing the narrative boundaries and trying to make something more grown up than your typical Saturday morning cartoon. And thats what we loved about it back then.

I would say 2 wasn't that accessible due to the timeskip. I think that paired with the bad schedule hurt this show getting an audience who would watch and/or buy the toys. Really it seems like the opinion on s2 got better once the revival came around. Possibly due to being able to stream it instead of waiting week by week
I wouldn't even say season 1 or 2 really pushed boundaries for Saturday morning cartoons at all. Especially compared to the DCAU, Avatar the Last Airbender, or even Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man (also by Weisman). And that's not me saying season 1 (season 2 is another story) was bad. I just wouldn't call it anything that pushed narrative boundaries.

What people liked about it from what I can see and can remember: Good story, fun likable characters, funny dialogue, good action scenes, very good animation. Which are standard compliments but still

But now? I think THIS iteration is the cartoon Weisman always wanted to make. Something super adult and ambitious and dense but not at all accessible or engaging to watch. Its no wonder no ones talking about this show anymore, only a super hardcore DC comics fan would be able to follow this narrative coherently. This show just isnt fun anymore.

I honestly don't even think hardcore DC comics fans are able to follow this. I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore fan, but I'm pretty knowledgeable and I'm still not engaged. And I know a lot of other DC fans feel the same way. Having DC knowledge might help with maybe being able to know characters/concepts without needing the exposition. But then still having to keep up is still a chore. Even compared to "adult" live action programs.

I actually saw on the YJ subreddit (honestly one of the most immature and deluded subreddits for a show I've seen) someone using the excuse "Everyone who complains about not understanding or complaining about the time skip or complaining about too many characters is being dumb. You do know you can just read the comics for explanations, right" and I mostly lurk on Reddit not post. But I really want to say "No that's not true at all" because the comics and show are different things. For instance Weisman has said that Dick Grayson and Bruce never had a falling out. Or another example, Wally never dies while Kid Flash.

I do agree that the show isn't fun anymore. And maybe "fun" isn't even the right word. But maybe just "enjoyable". I said this before, maybe even in this thread, DC has a serious "we need to be more adult" thing going on and it's really affecting some of their properties. Things get way too edgelord-y.
Like in season 3: the whole scene of Beast Boy, who I think was like 14-16 getting the snot beaten out of him by Granny Goodness or the repeated scenes of Halo getting brutally "killed" or Beast Boy constantly being depressed in s4*, or even the very on-the-nose Trump stuff in season 3. It's just not an enjoyable watch.
Breaking Bad, The Shield, The Wire, Sopranos, even Walking Dead for a time were all shows that were very "adult" and had brutal moments. Or even SH properties like The Boys and Invincible get really brutal too. But they were still enjoyable to watch because they're compelling. In their better seasons, the characters list was tight, they used humor well, characters had clear and proper motivations. With YJ they just don't have that anymore.

*Another highlight of the YJ subreddit is anytime someone says BB's depression storyline isn't interesting they get accused of not caring about mental health or don't know how depression works

Longer post than I meant it to be. But it just bums me out that they really wasted a lot of potential of what could've been a great show with being too edgelord-y and just throwing concepts and characters in there for no reason.[/QUOTE]

 

[kguillou]

Yeah I'm with you 100% @MadVillainy. This is making me question Greg Weisman as a writer honestly because up until now his work has been fantastic, with Spectacular Spiderman probably being his best work. He's just biting off more than he can chew, I think. He's clearly trying to weave a very dense, labyrinthian story featuring the entire DC universe and while that ambition is commendable, its just not working and he's getting lost in his own material.

 

[kguillou]

Well the season ended pretty strongly and that cliffhanger...is a VERY intriguing one. I just feel like we took such a long convoluted route to get here. I liked the endgame but not the journey to the endgame. Anyway I'd be shocked if we get a season 5 with Zaslov in charge but I think this works fine enough as a series finale.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The YJ finale....Was it a bad episode? No. But the battle....annoyed and bored me.

You mean to me that we have ALL these heroes and they all show up at the end? Everything was to convenient and im tired of Miss M being able to take down anyone. It's played out by now.

The group manages to send most to the phantom zone but they ultimately get bested by the villains again? Hated that reveal.

If we get another season i hope that SuperMartian take a back seat as a couple as they've dominated it since s1 with plenty of relationship drama.

The end reveal was great. Hopefully if we get a s5 it doesn't play out like i think it will.

 

[OnTheAir]

 

[Slick]

That poster is raw. Overall I enjoyed this season more than the last but really I still love the show and don't want it too end flaws and all. People don't like it but I love how ambitious this show is and how it tells an entire DC Universe story. I mean I just really dig it but while having said that I get why people would want a more singular focused series.

 

[X-Ray]

They should have left the battle at the fortress. Then the whole no other leaguer showing up till the end wouldn't be as annoying.

 

[Sawyer]

Been on a full series binge lately (only watched a few episodes back during the first season on CN). About halfway through Phantoms right now and the decision to put Nightwing and Kaldur front and center in the opening credits is very funny considering how much they’ve actually had to do in the front half of this season.

 

[Sawyer]

This “House of Zod” song kicks ass, though.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Thought this would be renewal/cancellation news lol oh well.

Thoughts on the overall series?

 

[Sawyer]

Thoughts on the overall series?

I like it a lot, I just kinda wish they had held off that first time jump/expansion of the team for a bit. I love the original group dynamic and wish we’d gotten more of it vs. the show basically becoming Justice League Unlimited in S2.

Also probably my favorite Dick Grayson outside the comic medium.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'm working through Season 4 right now. This show has some often very jumbled and clumsy writing (the xenophobia metaphors in the Mars storyline for example) but it still manages to hit hard at times. And even though it's very unwieldy overstuffed narratively I do admire how it tries to explore the larger DC universe. I have mostly a cursory knowledge of DC lore outside of Batman so watching this show has been an education haha.