What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

[JtheDreamer]

That is the most ridiculous 'restatement' of another person's argument I've ever seen.

Nothing is more ridiculous than you smothering this thread with your expectations.

No. She doesn't have to remain antagonistic to the very last second of the movie regardless of what happens. She should show a gradual change away from her heavy antagonism as she comes to see things in a different light. Or at the very least have a clear epiphany moment that explains why the change is so unbelievably sudden. Her just generally thinking 'Yeah, this guy isn't as bad as I thought he was' really doesn't cut it when it comes to explaining such a passionate person making a complete 180 on such an important subject.

Why should she show "gradual" change? You do realize this is an action-CBM with just under a 2 hour run time and on up until Scott Lang was victorious, there was no reason to be a believer.

Again, this has nothing to do with anything missing from the movie. It's a personal preference of yours. Major life-changing events like the one that transpired at the end of the movie is indeed enough to change a person's mind.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Well, as another poster said not only did Scott prove himself worthy, but he made Hope realise why Pym wants him in the suit instead of her, as Scott outright tells her, he's expendable to Pym, Hope is not. Plus halfway through is when Pym tells Hope how her mother really died, so plenty changes and its no mystery why she is 'suddenly' okay with not being in the suit. She outright knows WHY she cant be in the suit in the 2nd half of the movie. This was all in there dude and they were big points in the movie.

Thank you.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Thank you.

No problem, it was one of my favourite parts of the movie when Hank finally tells Hope how her mother died and why she can't be in the suit.

 

[Bayne]

Well, as another poster said not only did Scott prove himself worthy, but he made Hope realise why Pym wants him in the suit instead of her, as Scott outright tells her, he's expendable to Pym, Hope is not. Plus halfway through is when Pym tells Hope how her mother really died, so plenty changes and its no mystery why she is 'suddenly' okay with not being in the suit. She outright knows WHY she cant be in the suit in the 2nd half of the movie. This was all in there dude and they were big points
in the movie.

I'm sorry, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree on Scott having proved himself worthy beyond doubt in just that one training sequence and a 20 second fight with Falcon.

As for the second part, she knows why Hank doesn't want her in the suit. That's not the same thing.

 

[Bayne]

Nothing is more ridiculous than you smothering this thread with your expectations.

You smothering the thread with your bizarre anger is. If you stopped trying to tell me how wrong I was, I would stop answering you.

Why should she show "gradual" change? You do realize this is an action-CBM with just under a 2 hour run time and on up until Scott Lang was victorious, there was no reason to be a believer.

Gradual change does not require giving her an extra quarter of the run time. Stop trying to reinterpret everything I say into the most extreme opinion you can imagine.

Just being able to see a few small moments where her mind was changing would've helped a great deal.

And the fact that there was no undeniable reason to believe in Scott until after Scott was victorious is a major part of what I've been saying. It's exactly why it doesn't make sense to me that she never, ever broaches the question of who should wear the suit again after she makes up with her dad.

Again, this has nothing to do with anything missing from the movie. It's a personal preference of yours. Major life-changing events like the one that transpired at the end of the movie is indeed enough to change a person's mind.

Again, I have to say what transpired at the end of the movie has absolutely no bearing on what I'm talking about. Because it didn't happen until the END of the movie, and my issue with Hope's storyline takes place BEFORE the end of the movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm sorry, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree on Scott having proved himself worthy beyond doubt in just that one training sequence and a 20 second fight with Falcon.

As for the second part, she knows why Hank doesn't want her in the suit. That's not the same thing.

Scott didn't just 'fight with Falcon' though, the plan completely changed when he got to the location and they realised the building was completely different to how they previously thought it was. Scott had to improvise, fight an Avenger, and STILL managed to get what he went in for and get out alive. He more than proved himself worthy.

And yeah, Hank telling her why she can't be in the suit and how her mother dies totally changes things. She even says to Hank "why didn't you tell me sooner?" Heavily implying that if he had she would have understood earlier why she can't be in the suit. Again this was all in the movie.

 

[TeeKay]

Scott didn't just 'fight with Falcon' though, the plan completely changed when he got to the location and they realised the building was completely different to how they previously thought it was. Scott had to improvise, fight an Avenger, and STILL managed to get what he went in for and get out alive. He more than proved himself worthy.

And yeah, Hank telling her why she can't be in the suit and how her mother dies totally changes things. She even says to Hank "why didn't you tell me sooner?" Heavily implying that if he had she would have understood earlier why she can't be in the suit. Again this was all in the movie.

This.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

This.

 

[Bayne]

Scott didn't just 'fight with Falcon' though, the plan completely changed when he got to the location and they realised the building was completely different to how they previously thought it was. Scott had to improvise, fight an Avenger, and STILL managed to get what he went in for and get out alive. He more than proved himself worthy.

And yeah, Hank telling her why she can't be in the suit and how her mother dies totally changes things. She even says to Hank "why didn't you tell me sooner?" Heavily implying that if he had she would have understood earlier why she can't be in the suit. Again this was all in the movie.

That is all your interpretation of those events. I'm not sure how many more times I need to repeat the fact that I just don't see those things in that way. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dark Raven]

How come Ant-Man fought Falcone? I thought he was a Batman villain?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That is all your interpretation of those events. I'm not sure how many more times I need to repeat the fact that I just don't see those things in that way. And there's nothing wrong with that.

My interpretation of events? It's what happened in the movie dude, its what the movie told me and most people who saw it. Some of the things you are saying go against what we were shown and told in the movie. Hence why people are calling you on it.

 

[Golgo-13]

As cool as it was seeing him, The Falcon scene felt tacked on. I think it was the fact that the Avengers base looked completely empty with the exception of him.

Also I didn't like the fact that the entire police station went ape **** when Lang escaped. He was a low level, non-violent criminal. They responded as though he was Hannibal Lecter or Ted Bundy.

 

[TheVision]

I think some people are in total denial about story/plot points in this film and how it worked. Either that or their brains cannot comprehend what happened. Ya gotta see the movie a few more times or just not watch it. It might be too complex for you.

 

[The Guard]

Those kinds of statements are not productive. This isn't a particularly complex or intelligently written or difficult to understand movie, and pretending that people who didn't feel the same way about the quality of the writing or feel that some elements of the movie could have been handled differently are less intelligent than the average person is simply rude.

 

[wampa1]

Yes, Hank has every reason to not want her to be the Wasp. That's perfectly explained in the movie. The problem is that Hope has no reason to be perfectly ok with that, and yet she apparently is perfectly ok with it, and that is not explained anywhere at all

Hope is not okay with not being the one in the suit but comes to respect the decision of her father, albeit still harbouring that desire (see: post credits). She sees how important it is to him to not have her risk her life and whilst it's arguable that that may not be a strong enough reason for her to not just pinch the suit when did you last steal from your parents? I'm guessing never.

It's her father's tech, his house, his plan and she has to respect that. She is never 'perfectly okay' with it but accepts it in the end. It's not perfect logic but is fine 2 hour movie logic.

 

[wampa1]

As for what I didn't like.... why the elaborate break-in? Couldn't hope just put him in her pocket? They managed to get a tank through security...

 

[SomeOldGuy]

As for what I didn't like.... why the elaborate break-in? Couldn't hope just put him in her pocket? They managed to get a tank through security...

Well, they also had to get in a swarm of ants and explosives, so that might have been a bit much. I do think the whole triple-security-so-the-building-is-bug-proof things is rather far-fetched. Even assuming you could plant sensors everywhere to catch the smallest intruder, the security system should have been going off every three seconds as another moth or gnat attracted by all the lights flew into some part of the building.

 

[Bayne]

My interpretation of events? It's what happened in the movie dude, its what the movie told me and most people who saw it. Some of the things you are saying go against what we were shown and told in the movie. Hence why people are calling you on it.

Your interpretation, yes.

Scott didn't just 'fight with Falcon' though, the plan completely changed when he got to the location and they realised the building was completely different to how they previously thought it was. Scott had to improvise, fight an Avenger, and STILL managed to get what he went in for and get out alive.

This is what was in the movie.

He more than proved himself worthy.

This is your interpretation of what was in the movie.

She even says to Hank "why didn't you tell me sooner?"

This is what was in the movie.

Heavily implying that if he had she would have understood earlier why she can't be in the suit.

This is your interpretation of what was in the movie.

I'm not arguing against your facts. I disagree with your interpretation of those facts.

 

[Bayne]

Hope is not okay with not being the one in the suit but comes to respect the decision of her father, albeit still harbouring that desire (see: post credits). She sees how important it is to him to not have her risk her life and whilst it's arguable that that may not be a strong enough reason for her to not just pinch the suit when did you last steal from your parents? I'm guessing never.

It's her father's tech, his house, his plan and she has to respect that. She is never 'perfectly okay' with it but accepts it in the end. It's not perfect logic but is fine 2 hour movie logic.

I don't think she should have actually stolen the suit. I wouldn't have been shocked to see her consider it momentarily, but I seriously doubt any version of the film would have included it unless the entire story had been changed around.

I did feel, unfortunately, like she just gave in and accepted that Hank's word was final without ever even attempting to make him see her side of the disagreement, and that's why i found her characterization in the second half of the film problematic.

And if it was so disruptive an element to the story that it just couldn't be included, I'd be perfectly fine with hand waving it away as movie logic, but it could've easily been done better without hurting the movie at all, so I don't see that as a particularly good defense.

 

[TheVision]

 

[JtheDreamer]

She even says to Hank "why didn't you tell me sooner?" Heavily implying that if he had she would have understood earlier why she can't be in the suit. Again this was all in the movie.

Forgot about that. Great point. I'm sure it will fall on dead eyes though.

Those kinds of statements are not productive. This isn't a particularly complex or intelligently written or difficult to understand movie, and pretending that people who didn't feel the same way about the quality of the writing or feel that some elements of the movie could have been handled differently are less intelligent than the average person is simply rude.

"Differently" is not the same as what's being implied for making the movie better. The issue Bayne is aruing over was explicitly explained in the movie.

 

[JtheDreamer]

As cool as it was seeing him, The Falcon scene felt tacked on. I think it was the fact that the Avengers base looked completely empty with the exception of him.

Tacked on? I dunno, I thought it was the best usage of the MCU connective tissue that we've seen in most of the tentpole films. How many Avengers weren't home was irrelevant to me. The moment when the clouds cleared I was "ohhhhhh damn here we go!". Loved it.

 

[JtheDreamer]

What a broken record right?

 

[CaptainWagner]

So, after seeing it twice now, here's what I didn't like:

• Not enough development for Cross as the villain. And then [BLACKOUT]seemingly killing him off in the end. [/BLACKOUT]He had a ton of potential, and while he was still ages better than the likes of Malekith or Ronan, it seems most of his story got cut out.
• Hope was already on Pym's side from the beginning. If he had had to win her over, it would have made their arcs more compelling.
• Pym himself was a lot nicer than I felt he should have been. Instead of being a tortured genius with serious issues, he became a cookiee cutter mentor whose only flaw was pushing away his daughter (for noble reasons, of course)
• The dialogue could have stood for a few more runs through the editing room, it was a bit clunky in spots.
• And then there were some tonal issues, notably when Scott "ruined the moment". That was just awful.

All and all, it had some flaws, but was still a very good, very enjoyable film. At the end of the day, I still rank it higher than AOU.

 

[JtheDreamer]

[*]Hope was already on Pym's side from the beginning. If he had had to win her over, it would have made their arcs more compelling.

Why would he have to win her over? It was her vote on the board of directors which ousted him from Pym Labs (she held the final vote), which led to Cross creating a variant of the pym particles and the YJ suit.

She went back to good ol' dad because what happened was basically her fault and together they teamed up to put a stop to it. Albeit, it was clear some of participation was begrudgingly because of her insistence in being the one to wear the Ant-Man suit.