Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques

[gdw]

What?? Is there some laughter language where you can figure out if a laugh is a "oh *****" laugh or a "that was stupid" laugh.

Actually, yes. Like all communication, there are multiple levels, including context. Magicians, comedians, and similar performers are VERY familiar and in tune to it with it when it comes to laughter, but so is almost EVERYONE in any other situation.
You understand people's laughs every day well beyond 'they must think something's funny.'

You make the exact distinction you mockingly presented, all the time.
You generally know, in your daily life, very clearly when someone laughs because something was stupid, or in disbelief, or at humour, or at an awkward situation, etc.

Laughter goes FAR beyond just being a reaction to humour.

Why ruin that dramatic moment? It completely killed that entire scene. Not every scene needs to end with a joke or something comedic. Someone was potentially dead, the last thing you do is try to make the audience laugh. It completely took me out of the moment. I just rolled my eyes.

Why? Well, because they didn't, because it wasn't a joke.

 

[gdw]

I think it added to the drama and made the scene. It showed Stark truly raging internally.

Exactly. Tony didn't even look up to shoot him. Just *blast* "**** off."

 

[gdw]

All of Tonys "gimmick" suits have been FAR weaker than his regular Iron-Man suits. His suitcase one was damaged badly by Whiplash of all people, and his flying IronMan3 armour fell apart on its own regularly. Neither had anything like the kind of weaponry of his other suits too.

Way I see it, Iron-Man was wearing his fold-out-of-a-helicopter-gimmick armour rather than one of his more durable and more powerful armours. Lets be honest, he's not going to keep his strongest armour hidden away in a helicopter incase he might need it one day

(This is just my head canon lol)

Great points.

 

[FindingZemo]

Why? Well, because they didn't, because it wasn't a joke.

If people laugh, that means they interpreted it as comedic. hints the laugh.

 

[gdw]

Which is why they moved the fight to an enclosed area, where he doesn't have much maneuverability.



Weapons, most of which would have flat out murdered Cap, but that wasn't his goal. And he tried to tie Cap up. It didn't hold.



They pretty much didn't give him any time to react. And two super soldiers teaming up, are more than challenging enough, especially since he was holding back, because Cap was in the vicinity. And even with the 2 pummeling him, they still barely did any damage. Heck, Ironman basically won the fight. Bucky lost an arm, Cap was barely standing. And you have to remember, he was still holding back, because he didn't want Cap dead. He only really lost because he wasn't paying attention.



Or maybe just pay attention and actually watch carefully how they set up the entire confrontation.

And yeah, it's not bad writing, it's bad watching.

 

[gdw]

See so now you're saying the letter resolved conflict - which is what we're arguing didn't need to happen. Did it happen in the Star Wars originals? No. What happened after Vader chopped Luke's arm off? No resolution until Return of the Jedi.

There is no reason this film can't play by the same rules. The feel good moment of hope was provided when Stark was helping Rhodey with his rehab and Cap busted the other Avengers out of the Raft.

No, I said it provided the HINT of a FUTURE reconciliation.
Within the film, it provides a sense of resolution. It does not provide absolute resolution. That's the entire freaking distinction we're arguing about.

 

[gdw]

The main thing I didn't like about CW was that it set up those super soliders/ winter soldiers early on who seemed more than a match for Bucky. I thought they wouldn't simply be dead already when Cap, Iron Man and Bucky discovered them later on.

I was hoping they would actually be a team that the Avengers would have to fight in the end battle, or that they might even be saved for a future movie as some kind of version of the Masters of Evil that Baron Zemo might be assembling. Hopefully it could still happen, because otherwise what was even the point of that scene to suggest there were more of them out there?

It's called a red herring, and it's a classic story telling tool. It was meant to, and succeeded in, putting you in exactly the same mind set as the protagonists, so that you get the same feeling of having the rug yanked out from under you at the end.

The entire point was so that, instead of fully predicting the ending, like you thought you were, only to be left thinking "I have no clue what's going to happen next."
If what does happen next is something far more emotionally satisfying than an Avengers slug-fest against (yet again) mindless drones, then the device was effective, and it's called great writing.

 

[JtheDreamer]

No, I said it provided the HINT of a FUTURE reconciliation.
Within the film, it provides a sense of resolution. It does not provide absolute resolution. That's the entire freaking distinction we're arguing about.

You're just playing a game of semantics.

 

[gdw]

I didn't like the fact they killed off the other Soldiers so soon either. While yes there are powerful heroes in the MCU. I think if the Winter Soldiers lead by Zemo, all split up and caused havoc in different countries it could've been a very interesting plot. Forcing the Team Cap and Team Iron Man to split up a work together to stop them all before it's too late.

It would've been a fantastic way to start off Infinity War and get the heroes back together. But that's just me. They're dead now so it doesn't really matter.

But that would have completely undone Zemo's entire character motivation. He'd be creating a force to do more of what he hated the Avengers for.

You would have had to completely re-written his main motivations for dissassembling the Avengers.

Not saying it couldn't have worked, just saying it would require a MAJOR re-write of the driving plot of the film.

 

[gdw]

They're you're just playing a game of semantics.

Not even remotely semantics. My entire point has ALWAYS been that there's a vast difference between wiping away all conflict, and planting the seeds of hope.

You just seem to be incapable of recognizing this, and insist on everything being forced into your binary view.

 

[gdw]

If people laugh, that means they interpreted it as comedic. hints the laugh.

Oy, so you haven't read a single word. Nor have you, apparently, ever heard nervous laughter, laughter in disbelief, laughter out of shock and dismay. People laugh at all of these things, and almost never because they found it comedic.

Sometimes it's actually a combination, and you CAN have nervous laughter in shock at a horrific situation, while also acknowledging the absurdity of it, exactly like Tony does in AoU after Ultron breaks loose.

 

[FindingZemo]

you realize you can edit your posts instead of flooding the entire last two pages with quotes and one sentence responses

 

[gdw]

you realize you can edit your posts instead of flooding the entire last two pages with quotes and one sentence responses

I'm responding as I catch up on the thread. You'll notice those are responses to posts from several pages back, and also responding to a variety of posts and comments, and subjects.

 

[ctsketch]

What?? Is there some laughter language where you can figure out if a laugh is a "oh *****" laugh or a "that was stupid" laugh.

Why ruin that dramatic moment? It completely killed that entire scene. Not every scene needs to end with a joke or something comedic. Someone was potentially dead, the last thing you do is try to make the audience laugh. It completely took me out of the moment. I just rolled my eyes.

I didn't think that was a comedic moment...I think it just showed how tony didn't care about hurting anyone anymore...he effing repulsored a regular dude in the chest without even looking at him or a second thought

 

[JtheDreamer]

I didn't like the fact they killed off the other Soldiers so soon either. While yes there are powerful heroes in the MCU. I think if the Winter Soldiers lead by Zemo, all split up and caused havoc in different countries it could've been a very interesting plot. Forcing the Team Cap and Team Iron Man to split up a work together to stop them all before it's too late.

It would've been a fantastic way to start off Infinity War and get the heroes back together. But that's just me. They're dead now so it doesn't really matter.

What's strange is Bucky's explanation for the soldier's (both what they've done and what they can do) kind of nerfs what Pierce told Bucky about his work re-shaping the century.

I'm responding as I catch up on the thread. You'll notice those are responses to posts from several pages back, and also responding to a variety of posts and comments, and subjects.

Just hit the "+" sign dude on everything you want to reply to. It will load them on one post.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Edit

 

[SuperAl]

I didn't think that was a comedic moment...I think it just showed how tony didn't care about hurting anyone anymore...he effing repulsored a regular dude in the chest without even looking at him or a second thought

My original post was the audience laughed at the scene. I am not saying it was suppose to be comedic or not, just saying in my experience when i saw the movie everyone in the theater laughed. A few others said their audience laughed as well.

 

[Moridin]

What's strange is Bucky's explanation for the soldier's (both what they've done and what they can do) to Steve kind of nerfs what Pierce told Bucky about his work re-shaping the century.

Not really.
1. They were made in the 1990's
2. They were very unstable, so not that useful. Bucky was the perfect assassin.

 

[Dark Raven]

What's strange is Bucky's explanation for the soldier's (both what they've done and what they can do) to Steve kind of nerfs what Pierce told Bucky about his work re-shaping the century.



Just hit the "+" sign dude on everything you want to reply to. It will load them on one post.

Where is this "+" sign on the forum? I don't see it.

 

[SuperAl]

Where is this "+" sign on the forum? I don't see it.

Bottom right, next to the quote button on other people's posts.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Where is this "+" sign on the forum? I don't see it.

It's the button right next to the "Quote" button in the bottom right hand corner.

 

[Silvermoon]

It should be noted I *think* (though admit I would have to double check) the multi-quote "+" button is *NOT* present on the mobile view of the boards. So if you're not seeing the "+" button that could be a reason why.

 

[Anita18]

One thing that was much clearer to me on the second viewing, is how this is really Avengers 2.5 than a capstone (har har) to a self-contained trilogy. Yes, the conflict revolves around Cap and his crew, but nothing gets resolved. We'll have to watch the next Avengers (and maybe beyond) to see how the characters develop further.

I'm not sure if I would call it a flaw or a criticism, really. It was a creative choice made very, very early on. And I'm not sure to be miffed that one of Cap's standalone movies was sacrificed for an Avengers setup, or to celebrate that we'll see Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie in more movies. I have complicated feelings.

 

[JtheDreamer]

One thing that was much clearer to me on the second viewing, is how this is really Avengers 2.5 than a capstone (har har) to a self-contained trilogy. Yes, the conflict revolves around Cap and his crew, but nothing gets resolved. We'll have to watch the next Avengers (and maybe beyond) to see how the characters develop further.

I'm not sure if I would call it a flaw or a criticism, really. It was a creative choice made very, very early on. And I'm not sure to be miffed that one of Cap's standalone movies was sacrificed for an Avengers setup, or to celebrate that we'll see Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie in more movies. I have complicated feelings.

After my second viewing, I came to the conclusion I would have preferred something more stripped down and contained like CA:TWS and then get my "Avengers" fix when Infinity War rolls around.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

After my second viewing, I came to the conclusion I would have preferred something more stripped down and contained like CA:TWS and then get my "Avengers" fix when Infinity War rolls around.

Agreed.

If I were to compare TWS and CW in an analogy, I'd say CW is an all-you-can-eat buffet where everything is really good but not A+, and TWS is a three-course meal that your favourite chef has made personally for you.